Epiphone G-400 61 SG Custom wiring

[8mileshigh]

Hey tweakers,

I bought my son the above guitar, the three pickup model, and it's driving me crazy. The guitar sounds muddier than a mud slide and I've even swapped in replacement pickups and it still sounds like shite.

All of the volume pots have capacitors which is something I've never seen on volume pots. Does anybody have any experience modding this otherwise very playable guitar? Anybody have a schematic for this one, I'm sure there's something wrong in there somewhere.

Something is sucking the tone out of this guitar and I'm about to order new pots from Stew Mac and do a total rewire.

[8mileshigh]

Well, I decided to order parts from Stew Mac and completely rewire it like this.

http://www.mylespaul.com/forums/pickups/11563-3-humbucker-wiring-help.html

[Jef Bardsley]

The schematic posted in that thread employs the dreaded "independent" wiring. This is pretty much guaranteed to makes thing muddy when you turn down the volumes.

In fact, that just might be your problem now. Are the pickups connected to the middle lugs or the outside? (they should be on the outside lugs)



PS: I don't know anyone that wasn't pleased by rewiring their Epi, so new parts is a good idea. Heck, guys with Gibson Historics replace the wiring.

[8mileshigh]

Jef,

The pickups are connected to the middle lugs. I'll reinvestigate this now that you've supplied me this valuable advice. Can you suggest a diagram for me?

Thanks
Chris

[mistermikev]

i suggest you wire as standard les paul and then wire the middle humbucker hot to a push pull then straight to volume1...
then you get the standard les paul operation + you can go w all three or 1&2, 2&3 combos.
but that's just me.

[8mileshigh]

Mike,

This sounds interesting but I need some time to wrap my head around the wiring of the push pull pot.

Wait a minute, both pickups would be wired to the same push pull pot, right? both pickups would share the same tone control, is that it?

If so, would I be able to control the volume of the middle pickup?

Sorry if I don't have this right but I do like the suggestion very much.

Chris

[Jef Bardsley]

It might be a good idea to get a bag of alligator test leads so you can wire things up temporarily and see how different combinations sound.

I think most people find the middle pickup sounds more like the neck than the bridge. This means combing the middle with the bridge sounds a lot like the normal bridge + neck "middle toggle" sound. Thus, adding the neck to this combo doesn't make much difference.

So, what you do is use the push-pull switch to add the middle pup to the neck pup's volume control. This gives you a normal bridge tone, and when the switch is on, a big fat neck tone that's not as muddy as the regular neck tone. When you go to the middle toggle position, you can actually hear a difference when you dial the neck/middle up and down compared the the bridge.

You don't get a separate volume control for the middle pickup, but you get a separate tone control which can use a different cap - a lot of players like .015 caps in the neck position.

Remember, if the middle position pickup on an LP/SG sounded as cool as the middle pickup on a Strat, Gibson would make as many 3 pickup guitars as Fender does. Fact is, the middle humbucker does not add that much tonal variation. That's why few people go nuts trying to give it it's own volume and tone control. Gibson certainly doesn't.

YMMV, of course, which is why some test leads would let you try a few things and judge for yourself. One possibility is you like the middle tone better than the neck tone, and want to set the middle up with volume and tone, and let the switch just add the neck for variation.

Sorry I can't find a schematic for this, but it really is straightforward. As Mike suggested, just follow a regular SG wiring scheme and add the push-pull switch between the middle pickup and either volume control (to the lug where a pickup is already connected.)

[mistermikev]

Mike,

This sounds interesting but I need some time to wrap my head around the wiring of the push pull pot.

Wait a minute, both pickups would be wired to the same push pull pot, right? both pickups would share the same tone control, is that it?

If so, would I be able to control the volume of the middle pickup?

Sorry if I don't have this right but I do like the suggestion very much.

Chris
hello again,
there are a lot of dif ways to skin a cat...
here's a link to a std wiring diagram for a les paul.
http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.millerguitar.com/images/wiring/lp_style.jpg&imgrefurl=http://millerguitar.com/%3Fa%3Dlp_style&h=475&w=552&sz=45&tbnid=8y_tdeuKojZW5M:&tbnh=114&tbnw=133&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dles%2Bpaul%2Bwiring%2Bdiagram%26tbm%3 Disch%26tbo%3Du&zoom=1&q=les+paul+wiring+diagram&hl=en&usg=__QiIaWRglMrC61MbbOBMA2QmePDc=&sa=X&ei=w4LSTem_LI28sAPA1I2QCQ&sqi=2&ved=0CB4Q9QEwAg
now, see how the red hot wire from each pickup goes to the volume, then the white wire from volume goes to 3way... then out to jack(via middle black lead)?
what I was proposing is wire it up exactly as this diagram shows... only use a push pull pot for one of the tone knobs. now, a push pul has two rows of three lugs... you only need one row.
wire middle pu to ground just like the other pickups
wire the middle pu hot to the middle lug of push pull, and run a wire from either remaining lug (on that row of three) directly to where the red wire from one of the other pickups connects to vol pot.
lets say you wire it to the bridge p/u vol...
with this config... with switch one way the gtr will operate just like a les paul
w push/pull other way...that middle p/u will be effected by vol and tone of the bridge p/u. with the three way... in pos 1 you get bridge and middle, pos 2 you get bridge/mid/neck, and pos 3 you get neck and middle

lmk if I can help in any other way

[8mileshigh]

Okay, you guys rock. Thank you for taking the time to set me straight on this. I just have to put in an order from Stew Mac for the push pull pot.

I'll report back later with the results.
Chris

[8mileshigh]

Update: I gutted the wires and rewired as suggested above and added the correct caps and the guitar simply roars now. I have a 59 in the neck and a JB in the bridge position and they both sound bold and clear. When my push pull arrives, I'll wire up the Dimarzio Eric Johnson bucker for the middle position.

Thanks guys

[Jef Bardsley]

:dude

[mistermikev]

prob should have told you this b4 but... why not order two and use the other to split the humbuckers?
hehe,
cheers and good luck!

[CharlyG]

cross linking so I don't miss anything....if it comes alive again

http://www.thegearpage.net/board/showthread.php?p=11162653#post11162653