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View Full Version : Amp on floor or amp stand?


fenderball
05-16-2011, 05:16 PM
When you are gigging, do you place your amp or cab on the floor or on an amp stand or chair pointing at you?

I always have mine on the floor behind me....

spookybonus
05-16-2011, 05:17 PM
on the ground...but it is about 5' tall

Pietro
05-16-2011, 05:22 PM
backstage where I can't hear it, and I monitor through the PA.

lhallam
05-16-2011, 05:28 PM
Depends on the amp. My VHT combo has got to be on the floor for better bass response.

stratotastic
05-16-2011, 05:41 PM
On a stand that tilts the amp directly up at my head.

Scooter Burbank
05-16-2011, 05:50 PM
If I want it to sound good, it goes on the floor. Thus, it's always on the floor.

Sloop John B
05-16-2011, 05:51 PM
Always on a stand or a chair. I usually use 1x12 or 2x12 combos.

RockManDan
05-16-2011, 06:06 PM
on the floor produces better sound, in the same way that turning it up sounds better. unfortunatley both of these techniques are surefire ways to piss off any sound man, multiply this x10 if you're playing in a church.

The problem with putting your amp on teh ground is that unless you're playing a halfstack, the sound is not going to your head, its hitting your legs, and its also beaming the audience in the face. Add to this that people tend to tweak in more treble than they need because they're not listening to the amps actual tone, and you have a recipe for a volume argument. Sound guy (and everyone else who isnt the guitarist) is getting their ears blasted by 3khz, and the guitarist is like 'no way man my tone is fat!' because he's standing next to his amp looking down at it so all he hears are mid and low frequncies.

The number of people who fail to grasp this concept is staggering. Furthermore, the improved bass response you get from putting the amp on the floor is negated by the fact that mic won't pick any of this up really, so if you're in a venue where you need to be miced, you probably are playing a 2x12 combo or less, in which case the amps' height means you aren't hearing it properly and will probably dial in too much treble, and the extra bass response you think you're getting doesn't matter because its being miced anyway. If you're playing a venue large enough to warrant a 4x12 or similar, then the sound is much more evenly dispersed, so this is less of an issue, however you'll still be told to turn down because no sound man is going to rely on your stage sound to fill the venue, he will rather put more through the mains.

Thin Slices
05-16-2011, 06:12 PM
On the floor. Two reasons for that:

1. It sounds better to me on stage. I like the bass response. Seems like the sound is less directional than with an amp on a stand.

2. Most places I play unmiced so the amp has to be loud enough to make the guitar sit where it should in the mix. I don't want all that sound playing straight into my ears.

Scooter Burbank
05-16-2011, 06:13 PM
on the floor produces better sound, in the same way that turning it up sounds better. unfortunatley both of these techniques are surefire ways to piss off any sound man, multiply this x10 if you're playing in a church.

The problem with putting your amp on teh ground is that unless you're playing a halfstack, the sound is not going to your head, its hitting your legs, and its also beaming the audience in the face. Add to this that people tend to tweak in more treble than they need because they're not listening to the amps actual tone, and you have a recipe for a volume argument. Sound guy (and everyone else who isnt the guitarist) is getting their ears blasted by 3khz, and the guitarist is like 'no way man my tone is fat!' because he's standing next to his amp looking down at it so all he hears are mid and low frequncies.

The number of people who fail to grasp this concept is staggering. Furthermore, the improved bass response you get from putting the amp on the floor is negated by the fact that mic won't pick any of this up really, so if you're in a venue where you need to be miced, you probably are playing a 2x12 combo or less, in which case the amps' height means you aren't hearing it properly and will probably dial in too much treble, and the extra bass response you think you're getting doesn't matter because its being miced anyway. If you're playing a venue large enough to warrant a 4x12 or similar, then the sound is much more evenly dispersed, so this is less of an issue, however you'll still be told to turn down because no sound man is going to rely on your stage sound to fill the venue, he will rather put more through the mains.

I've heard this argument in the past, and I've been sympathetic to it; however, my experience tells me that there is something else going on. My amp (Victoria 35210) just doesn't sound the same when it's raised off the ground --- it sounds more metallic and "fragile." Very hard to convey with words. But I've tested this out by recording the amp both raised and on the ground with the mic at the same angle to the amp, and there is a definite difference, and to my ears it sounds far better on the ground.

Polynitro
05-16-2011, 06:21 PM
floor with legs tilted bck (twin reverb) I can hear it fine.

gixxerrock
05-16-2011, 06:25 PM
I way prefer the sound of it on floor. I know where to put my mic so the sound is exactly like it should sound "in the mix". I know I am not too loud: I have to place it very carefully to ensure the drummer can hear enough of me, and the rest of the band needs to have me in the monitors or else they won't hear me.

A pet peeve of mine is being told that I am too loud... before I have even played a single note. Like sound men and lead singers can tell just by looking that an amp is too loud. Big iron just scares some people.

defcrew
05-16-2011, 09:04 PM
I usually put it up so I can hear it. I never really thought about the floor versus stand/chair effecting tone. Back in my even younger and even louder daze I'd play a club where the soundman woul dhave me aim my amps back at me rather than towards the audience. The back of the amp faced the crowd. In this same venue we opened for SRV before TX Flood had come out. We didn't know much about him, really, but the first thign he said when he saw the stage and where the people were to sit was, "Them folks are gonna get their heads cut off."

Help!I'maRock!
05-16-2011, 09:08 PM
on some kind of stand. that could be a chair, stool, milk crate, tilt-back stand, or even a 4x12 cab. all putting it on the floor does is get me to turn it up to obscenely loud volumes.

SteveGaines
05-16-2011, 09:13 PM
My main amp is a Marshall JCM 800 Dan Torres Hot-Rodded for me years ago. I use a 2x12 Avatar cabinet with scumbacks. That being said, I have one of those "ROCK HARD" flight cases ( They are the best) I set the cabinet on top of the flight case, the head on the cabinet. Get's it up where I can hear it and I'm not blasting everybody in the room out. Unless you have a four twelve cabinet,( And I have seen those old school cats lay a 4x12 cabinet on the floor and point it at the ceiling or point it back at the wall) if you set anything on the floor it should always be blowing up at you, because nothing is as bad as a guitar player who's amp is in the floor and the sound is hitting them in the back of their legs, and the audience and band suffers for it!

Lo Blues
05-16-2011, 09:15 PM
Doesn't matter to me as long as it's pointing directly at the lead singer.

monty
05-16-2011, 09:22 PM
On the floor, tilted up.

Rob G
05-16-2011, 09:22 PM
I try to leave it on the floor because it sounds better that way, but sometimes I'll tilt it up so it's easier to hear.

jmonk99
05-16-2011, 09:32 PM
I use a Sound Enhancer stand. It's the best of both worlds. It takes the sound you loose through the back of your amp and funnels it to the front, and it puts the amp on an angle so you can hear it. It add a lot of bass to your amp. I love it!

defcrew
05-16-2011, 09:37 PM
I asked this in a specific thread but got no responses bu tmaybe some folks here will offer an opinion. I know you all have been in a situation where you have your amp sitting flat on a stage and it is not all that steady so that when people jump around or maybe even the drummer's kick will make the reverb unit start to just roar every now and again. Any solutions? It can happen on a stand too.

televox
05-16-2011, 09:48 PM
On the floor tilted up or on a solid road case no more than a couple feet high.

I really hate those amp stands.

DGTCrazy
05-16-2011, 09:51 PM
I keep my Shiva right in it's road case on casters. Sounds great, easy to move, and easy to load!

Brian D
05-16-2011, 11:11 PM
I like to go directly from my Rockman to the board. :rockin

mojazzmo
05-16-2011, 11:16 PM
I wonder what angle guys set their axe fx at in their racks?? I hear a 45 degree angle really brings out the mids and tightens up the bottom end. :p

guitarz1972
05-17-2011, 06:44 AM
I asked this in a specific thread but got no responses bu tmaybe some folks here will offer an opinion. I know you all have been in a situation where you have your amp sitting flat on a stage and it is not all that steady so that when people jump around or maybe even the drummer's kick will make the reverb unit start to just roar every now and again. Any solutions? It can happen on a stand too.

It sounds like things get pretty chaotic on stages where you play.

When you say "amp sitting flat on a stage," do you mean it's just sitting normally on the floor? That should be pretty steady, I would think. You definitely don't want your amp set up in a precarious sort of way, or in a line of fire where it might get knocked over; obviously the more stable the amp is, the less likely you're going to get weirdness from it. So first of all, make sure your amp is always safe.

As for the roaring reverb, unless you've got a mechanical problem with the amp going on, you might try turning your Verb back a bit. Use only as much reverb as you really need. A lot of players use too much Verb on-stage, myself included. Try turning down your reverb, or even turning it off completely. You might find you don't even miss it all that much. Bottom line I guess is, less reverb should equal less roar.

Things like amps getting bleed from other instruments and stuff like that is all part of a stage setup process. If the kick is messing with your amp try setting up at another point on the stage if possible. Where exactly mics are placed has a lot to do with it too I'm sure.

And make sure the stage jumpers aren't wearing heavy boots. LOL

Echoes
05-17-2011, 07:21 AM
... And I have seen those old school cats lay a 4x12 cabinet on the floor and point it at the ceiling...!

kinda hard to do because the 'jack' is on the back of those things...

I do both....It depends on the size of the place and the volume I am going to use...if I'm in a bigger venue it doesn't matter because the sound guys isolate the amp (usually on the floor) in a small room or with shields and point it away from the stage etc etc...

I usually like to have my own amp as a 'monitor' because stage monitors just don't get it right....and I HATE in ear monitors..if I'm using a half stack then it sits as is, a combo is usually off the floor in one way or another.

I have a couple of amp stands that angle the smaller combos that I use and if it's an AC30 or larger amp sometimes I just leave it on the floor or put it on top of a road case...I have never had an issue wanting more bass response by setting the amp on the floor. Bass response is usually what I am trying to dial back because I'm stepping on the bass in some instances....so...YMMV.

stratotastic
05-17-2011, 07:22 AM
on the floor produces better sound, in the same way that turning it up sounds better. unfortunatley both of these techniques are surefire ways to piss off any sound man, multiply this x10 if you're playing in a church.

The problem with putting your amp on teh ground is that unless you're playing a halfstack, the sound is not going to your head, its hitting your legs, and its also beaming the audience in the face. Add to this that people tend to tweak in more treble than they need because they're not listening to the amps actual tone, and you have a recipe for a volume argument. Sound guy (and everyone else who isnt the guitarist) is getting their ears blasted by 3khz, and the guitarist is like 'no way man my tone is fat!' because he's standing next to his amp looking down at it so all he hears are mid and low frequncies.

The number of people who fail to grasp this concept is staggering. Furthermore, the improved bass response you get from putting the amp on the floor is negated by the fact that mic won't pick any of this up really, so if you're in a venue where you need to be miced, you probably are playing a 2x12 combo or less, in which case the amps' height means you aren't hearing it properly and will probably dial in too much treble, and the extra bass response you think you're getting doesn't matter because its being miced anyway. If you're playing a venue large enough to warrant a 4x12 or similar, then the sound is much more evenly dispersed, so this is less of an issue, however you'll still be told to turn down because no sound man is going to rely on your stage sound to fill the venue, he will rather put more through the mains.

Agreed on everything. Thing is, seems that most people on TGP seem to think they're playing for themselves and not the audience, therefore all that's important is what sounds good to them. Maybe some of these people are playing to guitar tone nerds when they gig, but I tend to play to folks that are casual music listeners that like to go out and drink and dance and have fun. All they really care about is if the singers sound good and there's a good beat. They don't really notice much guitar unless there's an epic solo (or a huge mistake, haha). I'd rather be part of the music than have it be a showcase for my scary good tone. Blasting a group of hot 22-year old chicks in the head with 50 watts of icepick tone isn't really conducive to a good time for them OR us. :D

defcrew
05-17-2011, 07:52 AM
It sounds like things get pretty chaotic on stages where you play.

When you say "amp sitting flat on a stage," do you mean it's just sitting normally on the floor? That should be pretty steady, I would think. You definitely don't want your amp set up in a precarious sort of way, or in a line of fire where it might get knocked over; obviously the more stable the amp is, the less likely you're going to get weirdness from it. So first of all, make sure your amp is always safe.

As for the roaring reverb, unless you've got a mechanical problem with the amp going on, you might try turning your Verb back a bit. Use only as much reverb as you really need. A lot of players use too much Verb on-stage, myself included. Try turning down your reverb, or even turning it off completely. You might find you don't even miss it all that much. Bottom line I guess is, less reverb should equal less roar.

Things like amps getting bleed from other instruments and stuff like that is all part of a stage setup process. If the kick is messing with your amp try setting up at another point on the stage if possible. Where exactly mics are placed has a lot to do with it too I'm sure.

And make sure the stage jumpers aren't wearing heavy boots. LOL
The weird thing is, it seems like I've even unplugged the verb and had the problem. The amp I've been using is a Peavey Delta Blues but, if memory serves, I've had the issue with Twin Reverbs as well. It isn't really a matter of people being really wild on the stage. All it takes is someone, say, walking by pretty hard just in front of the amp. Maybe it's just this amp but it will be a sudden sort rattly roar that will dissipate within 3 seconds.

Marty s Horne
05-17-2011, 07:55 AM
On the floor. I don't like any speaker at or near ear level. This enables me to better hear everyone and not just myself.

arthur rotfeld
05-17-2011, 07:57 AM
Stand or chair, or at least facing up.

I do mostly lead work in jazz-type settings. I like to be close to the amp and feel like I'm making the sound, not that the floor is.

tucky
05-17-2011, 08:08 AM
Always off the floor as high up as I can get it. Preferably sitting on something stable that is at waist height. That way the speakers get heard by me more clearly, rather than blasting past me at my feet.

Average Joe
05-17-2011, 08:18 AM
As long as it's pointing at my ears rather than my knees the amp can be on the floor or raised, I don't care.

mannish
05-17-2011, 08:54 AM
Stand

Lo Blues
05-17-2011, 10:43 AM
Didn't Roy Buchanan have his amp behind him pointing backstage?

BobbyRay
05-17-2011, 12:07 PM
On the floor, turned up loud enough to compete with my loud ass drummer...Sound Men be damned!

Red Suede
05-17-2011, 12:42 PM
On the floor for me....

Scooter Burbank
05-17-2011, 05:16 PM
On the floor, turned up loud enough to compete with my loud ass drummer...Sound Men be damned!

Now that's what I'm talkin' about!!!

SyKrash
05-17-2011, 05:48 PM
On top of flight case.

SyKrash
05-17-2011, 05:55 PM
Also, in the never ending floor vs raised up debate.

I agree that miced, and with an ear up to the speaker the guitar amp 9/10 sounds better on the floor, more bass response, fatter tone.

However, I could care less what my guitar sounds like by itself, I want it to sound good IN THE BAND MIX. Meaning, if i have a fat low-endy warm sound I fight the bass drum, the bassist, and the keyboard player's left hand (if there's one on the gig)

Thats why I raise my amp up, cuts out alot of the bass, focuses on the midrange of the guitar, leadwork cuts through nicely, I can hear myself, easier to tweak knobs on the fly, I don't get in anyone's way, I don't have to raise the volume to hear myself pissing off the soundguy, I let the PA do the work in the house, takes the floor/stage and what material it's made out of out of the equation and much much more

The pros outweigh the cons 10:1 IMHO.

SamN
05-17-2011, 06:48 PM
"its hitting your legs, and its also beaming the audience in the face." Really? Wouldn't that depend on the height of the stage? I suppose if you are not playing on a stage that would be true. So I guess I am one of the staggering number of people who fails to grasp the concept.

geddyentwistle
05-17-2011, 06:54 PM
another agree with rockman

absolutely spot on

Don A
05-17-2011, 07:19 PM
On a milk crate or stand. Always.

shane88
05-17-2011, 08:19 PM
Doesn't matter to me as long as it's pointing directly at the lead singer.
i'd'a said drummer :p (insert least fave band mate of choice) - oh yeah i'd rather it was around waste height - my combo is slightly angled up - so i can get the 'epic' feedback goin - a lot of this tho depends on the size of the stage and the room - but generally i see my amp as my guitar monitor

BobbyRay
05-18-2011, 06:45 AM
Back in to say...Amp as monitor? Phooey! I play to have fun and make some extra coin. First, to have fun I have to enjoy it. So I play how it sounds best to me, and fortunately it sounds good to most everyone else. Secondly in most rooms I don't need to reinforce much else than vocals so I turn my amp up to sit "in" the mix correctly!

There's a false argument that states, "You can point your amp at your head, use it as a monitor and let the PA do it's job, or you can get your fat, too loud, tone with your amp on the floor"! Those are not the only two options and my way isn't better than yours.

I can keep my amp on the floor, listen to the mix and turn up to fit. My soundguy comment is all about the soundguy who no matter what you bring, including a ZVex Nano amp his first default statement Before You Even Plug In, is to ask you to turn down. Screw those guys! Get your appropriate sound first and then let him deal with front of the house. Working together is so much better. But if I'm not louder than the Snare drum, then I'm not too loud....Next!

defcrew
05-18-2011, 07:33 AM
The guitarist's eternal argument with the soundman about stage volume...I wholeheartedly agree that if it doesn't sound good to you then it probably isn't going to sound good out front as you can't play with proper "feel and so on. And, of course, the size of the venue is always an X factor. I've always been the guy who played too loud and actually and honestly am trying to not be that guy. If you are so loud that you don't go through the mains and rely on your amp alone to power your spot in the mix it never sounds as good as if you can go through the mains. It is highly directional and while you're rocking out on stage, if you went out front it is often just kind of static noise without clarity. Sadly, it seems most soundmen seem most excited by kick drums and vocals. I'm not sure when this happened but I'd like to say the 80s. I know that when you're amp is cranked and you can mute effectively with your hand and get some nice sustain that it feels really good and sometimes also sounds good but it is easy to quit listening to the rest of the group and your spot in it as you focus more solely on your one corner of it. At some point, you have to trust the soundman as you are at his mercy.

Nickstrtcstr
05-18-2011, 08:03 AM
My main amp is a Marshall JCM 800 Dan Torres Hot-Rodded for me years ago. I use a 2x12 Avatar cabinet with scumbacks. That being said, I have one of those "ROCK HARD" flight cases ( They are the best) I set the cabinet on top of the flight case, the head on the cabinet. Get's it up where I can hear it and I'm not blasting everybody in the room out. Unless you have a four twelve cabinet,( And I have seen those old school cats lay a 4x12 cabinet on the floor and point it at the ceiling or point it back at the wall) if you set anything on the floor it should always be blowing up at you, because nothing is as bad as a guitar player who's amp is in the floor and the sound is hitting them in the back of their legs, and the audience and band suffers for it!:agree
I play it on the stand. Reasons are one: because I want to hear all the frequencies. Bass frequencies take a longer distance to form and if your amp is on the floor you may think your bass response is better but that is because you are missing the more directional frequencies which are blowing past your knees and punching your audience in the face.

sixstringslut
05-18-2011, 08:28 AM
Pro Jr goes on a chair for bigger gigs. Boogies (bigger amps) go on the floor for mid to small gigs.
I don't want to hear myself to much, I am listening to everyone else first. I like to think that I know what I am doing, it's everyone else that I am worried about lol.

My job is to fit everything together and make the singer sound good. If singer misses a line... I will follow volcal and lead band that direction.

I check my tone at the house and could care less what is doing on stage for the most part, as long as it is feeding the mic and I can hear to tune.

I can then hear what is coming out the mains off the back wall, if the sound guy is sand-bagging, me I can fix that if I need to. ha ha

Peeb
05-18-2011, 08:31 AM
Stand or chair, or at least facing up.

I do mostly lead work in jazz-type settings. I like to be close to the amp and feel like I'm making the sound, not that the floor is.
:agree

BobbyRay
05-18-2011, 12:01 PM
The guitarist's eternal argument with the soundman about stage volume...I wholeheartedly agree that if it doesn't sound good to you then it probably isn't going to sound good out front as you can't play with proper "feel and so on. And, of course, the size of the venue is always an X factor. I've always been the guy who played too loud and actually and honestly am trying to not be that guy. If you are so loud that you don't go through the mains and rely on your amp alone to power your spot in the mix it never sounds as good as if you can go through the mains. It is highly directional and while you're rocking out on stage, if you went out front it is often just kind of static noise without clarity. Sadly, it seems most soundmen seem most excited by kick drums and vocals. I'm not sure when this happened but I'd like to say the 80s. I know that when you're amp is cranked and you can mute effectively with your hand and get some nice sustain that it feels really good and sometimes also sounds good but it is easy to quit listening to the rest of the group and your spot in it as you focus more solely on your one corner of it. At some point, you have to trust the soundman as you are at his mercy.

Agreed on all counts. Again...All about "appropriate" and "in the mix".

DrSax
05-18-2011, 02:54 PM
In this same venue we opened for SRV before TX Flood had come out. We didn't know much about him, really, but the first thign he said when he saw the stage and where the people were to sit was, "Them folks are gonna get their heads cut off."

I wonder if any soundguys ever told SRV what he was doing was all wrong?

How did he ever make it without listening to soundguys?

BobbyRay
05-18-2011, 03:14 PM
I wonder if any soundguys ever told SRV what he was doing was all wrong?

How did he ever make it without listening to soundguys?

He coulda been somebody if only he woulda listened. :p

But seriously, I don't play anywhere close to that loud.

Interesting story that I mentioned before here on TGP. Pretty famous player who shared the stage on tour with Robben Ford said that Robben was pretty loud. He said that the sound guy at many venues would always come up and ask him to turn down and he would oblige, then they would ask Robben and Robben would flatly, and curtly say "No." He asked Robben about this and Robben would say, "Sometimes you gotta tell the soundguy to get f----d."

No, none of us are Robben, but sometimes....

Again, I'm not saying turn up and everything else be damned, but get comfortable, listen, and then play. Don't get too focused on all the overly specific BS...Play and make 'em like it!

Cymbaline
05-18-2011, 03:21 PM
Mine's a half stack, so it always goes on the floor. I tried raising it once, and I wasn't impressed. A 4x12 really needs to be in full contact with the floor to get that thump.

BobbyRay
05-18-2011, 03:25 PM
Here's a question, and an honest question.

I'm trying to think of artist that are well known who feel that amp up on a stand is a better way to go. I can't think of anyone I've seen in concert, from clubs to big stages using amp stands. Just local guys but none of the recording artists. I'm sure there are ones who do this, but I can't remember seeing them.

aussiemeats
05-18-2011, 03:26 PM
G'Day,

Best set up I've seen and heard IS..

Joe Bonamassa's setup, which is amp cabs on the floor and PlexiGlass Panels

in front, angled so the DeathBeams gets angled back towards the back of the venue.

Amps are miked thru the PA. This way, the audience especially in front, doesnt get their

ears LASERED off, and He can turn up the Amp levels higher to achieve the breakup

without KILLING himself, his bandmates or the audience. Win/Win/Win

Joe can still hear his sound, and make adjustments if need be...

I've seen and heard him multiple times, in several different size venues, from very small, to medium sized, and it works mates.

Secondly turning your amp around facing backwards and miking, also is effective

for being able to turn up, to get the sweet spot, and not getting scolded

by your sound guy, or the venue owners.

FWIW... YMMV...

Cheers

trickness
05-18-2011, 03:28 PM
I wonder if any soundguys ever told SRV what he was doing was all wrong?

How did he ever make it without listening to soundguys?

The "sound guys" were surely in his employ once he became successful, and mixed it the way he wanted it, like any other act. But he was likely smart enough to realize that what they were hearing (which is what the audience would be hearing too) was a lot different than how it sounded standing right in front of his amp, and trusted them to do their job.

DrSax
05-18-2011, 03:40 PM
The "sound guys" were surely in his employ once he became successful, and mixed it the way he wanted it, like any other act. But he was likely smart enough to realize that what they were hearing (which is what the audience would be hearing too) was a lot different than how it sounded standing right in front of his amp, and trusted them to do their job.

Well, that's exactly my point. Before he was famous, I bet he got alot of grief and "didn't know what he was doing". After he's famous, all of a sudden the soundguy has to do his job and can make it work just fine.

DrSax
05-18-2011, 03:43 PM
Here's a question, and an honest question.

I'm trying to think of artist that are well known who feel that amp up on a stand is a better way to go. I can't think of anyone I've seen in concert, from clubs to big stages using amp stands. Just local guys but none of the recording artists. I'm sure there are ones who do this, but I can't remember seeing them.

I don't think I've ever seen an amp stand among "famous" "big names" etc. But, I have seen many of them have amps on drum risers or on flight cases etc.

FatTeleTom
05-18-2011, 03:44 PM
I'm trying to think of artist that are well known who feel that amp up on a stand is a better way to go. I can't think of anyone I've seen in concert, from clubs to big stages using amp stands. Just local guys but none of the recording artists. I'm sure there are ones who do this, but I can't remember seeing them.

I think most of the "well known" artists are playing on significantly bigger stages than us bar/club weekend warrior types. So, both the performers and the audience are usually a lot further away from the amp, and the "beam" effect is less of an issue.

Also both audience and performer are probably hearing the guitar through the PA and/or monitors. So, all that matters is what the mic on the amp is hearing, so you can dial your tones based on that.

In a small bar, especially if the amp is carrying the room with little/no PA support, what the audience hears may be very different from what you hear on stage, standing just a couple of feet from your amp. That's where the problems come in--i.e. the tone that sounds good to you may be an ice pick death blow to the folks at the front table. And it's where a little tilt-back can make all the difference.

katuna
05-18-2011, 04:11 PM
I don't think I've ever seen an amp stand among "famous" "big names" etc. But, I have seen many of them have amps on drum risers or on flight cases etc.

Exactly. The Stones put their combos up on Mesa Boogie cabs, but the mesa boogie cabs aren't even being used - they are literally just stands for the amps

Crowder
05-18-2011, 07:32 PM
I use a lowish tilt-back stand....this one:

http://www.amazon.com/Quik-Lok-BS-317BK-Amp-Stand/dp/B003R7KU4E/ref=sr_1_8?ie=UTF8&qid=1305764969&sr=8-8

This keeps the amp at about a 30* angle, with the controls a little lower than waist high. It fits my DAG15 nicely.

I feel like I can hear my tone perfectly, and since we play small clubs I am usually not micing the amp. I use it in practices too with the amp facing me, so I'm used to whatever effect it has on my tone.

stratotastic
05-18-2011, 11:12 PM
I think most of the "well known" artists are playing on significantly bigger stages than us bar/club weekend warrior types. So, both the performers and the audience are usually a lot further away from the amp, and the "beam" effect is less of an issue.

Also both audience and performer are probably hearing the guitar through the PA and/or monitors. So, all that matters is what the mic on the amp is hearing, so you can dial your tones based on that.

In a small bar, especially if the amp is carrying the room with little/no PA support, what the audience hears may be very different from what you hear on stage, standing just a couple of feet from your amp. That's where the problems come in--i.e. the tone that sounds good to you may be an ice pick death blow to the folks at the front table. And it's where a little tilt-back can make all the difference.

Beat me to it. But yeah, famous artists have much better sound reinforcement and monitoring systems than most bar or small club bands. Occasionally we play this place--a little shitty dive bar at first glance--but they have a MONSTER sound system and a very dedicated sound guy. I could have my amp in the next room if I wanted and still hear myself in the mix perfectly. Other places we bring our shit-on-a-stick PA system and you need to be a little more strategic about how and where you aim your amps.

defcrew
05-18-2011, 11:20 PM
G'Day,

Best set up I've seen and heard IS..

Joe Bonamassa's setup, which is amp cabs on the floor and PlexiGlass Panels

in front, angled so the DeathBeams gets angled back towards the back of the venue.

Amps are miked thru the PA. This way, the audience especially in front, doesnt get their

ears LASERED off, and He can turn up the Amp levels higher to achieve the breakup

without KILLING himself, his bandmates or the audience. Win/Win/Win

Joe can still hear his sound, and make adjustments if need be...

I've seen and heard him multiple times, in several different size venues, from very small, to medium sized, and it works mates.

Secondly turning your amp around facing backwards and miking, also is effective

for being able to turn up, to get the sweet spot, and not getting scolded

by your sound guy, or the venue owners.

FWIW... YMMV...

Cheers
I saw him around 2002 here in town and there were maybe 15 people there. Pretty good sized room...maybe 400 capacity or so...and he was blazing loud. The soundman was bitching like all get out. I thought he sounded good. Very 70s mix.

BobbyRay
05-19-2011, 06:32 AM
In the end I think the lesson here is...Whatever works for you! I've tried the stand route and the aiming the amp at your head, etc., etc. and have always gotten the best results, with the old fashioned plug in, use your ears to tune your rig to the room and sit in the mix, play your guitar method! Mic the amp, don't mic the amp...it's all good. I guess I'm just freakin' amazing!:p

BobbyRay
05-19-2011, 06:42 AM
Well, that's exactly my point. Before he was famous, I bet he got alot of grief and "didn't know what he was doing". After he's famous, all of a sudden the soundguy has to do his job and can make it work just fine.

This has always been my point on some level. I'm never stupid loud, and even on huge stages, there are sound nazi's...there just are. My point has always been that the sound guys have comfort zones and many, not all, are not able to work with a band. They feel it's the bands job to make it easy for them, where as I think it's the bands job to get comfortable on stage and then have the sound guy mix front of house TO THE BANDS PREFERENCES! It's the bands music and the sound guys job is to help them present it in whatever light they want it to be presented in....PERIOD! If that means the owner or the crowd don't like it...fine. I can live with that. It's when the sound guy imposes his view of what is proper and the band is not succeeding or failing on it's own terms that pisses me off.

In the words of Robben..."Sometimes you gotta tell the soundguy to get F'd"

One size does not fit all...that is the overwhelming message of TGP! My way is not right...your way is not right. What is right is what helps you make the best music you can. When you're makin' music and expressing yourself, it's never wrong!

Lotis
05-19-2011, 08:30 AM
I use a wooden triangle to tilt it back just a tad. I like it on the floor but I also need to have it pointing at me a bit to keep the volume down.

Jimmy James
05-19-2011, 07:46 PM
I have '66 Pro Reverb and I've been tilting it back at gigs thinking it was the best way to hear myself. It really sucks all the bottom out.

mojazzmo
05-26-2011, 09:34 PM
Below link is Stern with 2 twins on road cases. Whatever the "rule" is, anyone can find examples of people breaking it and sounding great. I'm personally going to try (at my next small gig) my DRRI on a stand that just tilts it back and then run a single 1x12 closed back ext. cab for the bottom end. Seems like the best of both worlds. I've often wondered why guitarists don't use a tilted back ext. cab instead of the pa monitor, to hear themselves. Just my 2 cents.


Lt-YWps2Dfc&feature=related

pete kanaras
05-30-2011, 09:22 AM
if i Really can't hear it onstage i'll place it on something shooting straight out and not tilted back, rather than turn the amp up, as i'm strictly a clean tone kinda guy. but if i have no time for any of that and it's a big stage i'll just ask for a little in the front wedge, but that's very rare. happened saturday in fact, and then i was able to turn back down to 4 from about 7. simply move towards the wedge for solos and i'm in the sweet spot. i'm happy, band's happy, soundman's happy too.

pete kanaras
05-30-2011, 09:29 AM
I've often wondered why guitarists don't use a tilted back ext. cab instead of the pa monitor, to hear themselves.

jeff beck did for quite awhile. he had marshall make him some custom 2-12 guitar wedges and he simply ran long cables out from one of his spare heads, taking a split from his main signal chain. this way he did'nt have to blow out the whole stage with guitar. i don't know if he's still doing it today but i always thought it was a cool solution, and i'm surprised it has'nt caught on with others

Endr_rpm
05-30-2011, 12:09 PM
I've often wondered why guitarists don't use a tilted back ext. cab instead of the pa monitor, to hear themselves.

jeff beck did for quite awhile. he had marshall make him some custom 2-12 guitar wedges and he simply ran long cables out from one of his spare heads, taking a split from his main signal chain. this way he did'nt have to blow out the whole stage with guitar. i don't know if he's still doing it today but i always thought it was a cool solution, and i'm surprised it has'nt caught on with others

Avatar makes them currently. NOt cheap, but if that's what you need...

http://www.avatarspeakers.com/pictures/pm%20front.jpg

FFTT
05-30-2011, 01:43 PM
In my old band the Vibrolux Reverb was on the floor facing forward
and the Super Reverb was up on a stand facing cross stage.

Baminated
05-30-2011, 01:50 PM
BOTH on the floor AND on a Stand !
http://static.music123.com/derivates/6/001/234/651/DV019_Jpg_Regular_450732.jpg

http://standback.net/images/standback-amp.jpg

mouzer
05-30-2011, 02:16 PM
I used to prop up my straight 4x12 cab on top of my road case that housed a head and 5U rack. Putting the cab on the floor adds bass response but I've always considered it kind of a 'fake' low end, as it affects my perception of the tone but not so much in the microphone. I found that once I took that variable out of the equation, I could dial in a more pure low end that could be better picked up by the mic.

frennis
10-07-2011, 02:58 PM
G'Day,

Best set up I've seen and heard IS..

Joe Bonamassa's setup, which is amp cabs on the floor and PlexiGlass Panels



Not quite on the floor. Joe has been using Auralex under his amps for years (going back to at least 2006).

mjt335
10-07-2011, 03:14 PM
On a road case for me.
http://img687.imageshack.us/img687/4612/photocqa.jpg

keefsdad
10-07-2011, 04:20 PM
On the floor for me. But I rarely mic it.

jazzphan89
10-07-2011, 04:51 PM
Always on a stand. Reduced stage volume.

Rockledge
10-07-2011, 04:59 PM
You can't tell if your amp sounds right or not when it is on the floor unless you are on a stage big enough you can stand 15 feet or so away from it.
I always have an amp up on something if I cannot be at leas that distance from it.
If you are doing small places, a stand is a must , otherwise you either will not be able to hear yourself or if you can you will be too loud most of the time.
I also make sure my amp is a few feet away from the wall and try to aim the back of it at an angle to the wall so the sound from behind it disperses well.

OOG
10-07-2011, 05:36 PM
Depends
on the stage
and on the amp


last thing I want my amp coupled to is a big, crappy plywood box

having said that
I play small combos and they are ALWAYS off the floor
either on an Enhancer or Auralex

Nickstrtcstr
10-07-2011, 05:40 PM
on the floor produces better sound, in the same way that turning it up sounds better. unfortunatley both of these techniques are surefire ways to piss off any sound man, multiply this x10 if you're playing in a church.

The problem with putting your amp on teh ground is that unless you're playing a halfstack, the sound is not going to your head, its hitting your legs, and its also beaming the audience in the face. Add to this that people tend to tweak in more treble than they need because they're not listening to the amps actual tone, and you have a recipe for a volume argument. Sound guy (and everyone else who isnt the guitarist) is getting their ears blasted by 3khz, and the guitarist is like 'no way man my tone is fat!' because he's standing next to his amp looking down at it so all he hears are mid and low frequncies.

The number of people who fail to grasp this concept is staggering. Furthermore, the improved bass response you get from putting the amp on the floor is negated by the fact that mic won't pick any of this up really, so if you're in a venue where you need to be miced, you probably are playing a 2x12 combo or less, in which case the amps' height means you aren't hearing it properly and will probably dial in too much treble, and the extra bass response you think you're getting doesn't matter because its being miced anyway. If you're playing a venue large enough to warrant a 4x12 or similar, then the sound is much more evenly dispersed, so this is less of an issue, however you'll still be told to turn down because no sound man is going to rely on your stage sound to fill the venue, he will rather put more through the mains. Right on point. Simple thing that people that play their amps on the floor don't get. Bass frequencies take longer to form therefore the bass the guitarist is hearing isn't indicative of the whole tone. High frequencies are more directional which means the player isn't hearing those in context either.

AXXA
10-07-2011, 10:24 PM
I play 1x12 combos, and I prefer them off the ground all the time. Whether playing alone, practicing with my band, or gigging, I like it a few feet off the ground. I like my amp blasting me in the head so I can hear it clearly, and I prefer less bass anyway. When playing un-miced gigs, like a house party or such, I feel that the amp projects much better as well if it is propped up. I haven't played many large gigs though, so that could affect my preferences.

DC1
10-08-2011, 12:00 AM
on the floor produces better sound, in the same way that turning it up sounds better. unfortunatley both of these techniques are surefire ways to piss off any sound man, multiply this x10 if you're playing in a church.

The problem with putting your amp on teh ground is that unless you're playing a halfstack, the sound is not going to your head, its hitting your legs, and its also beaming the audience in the face. Add to this that people tend to tweak in more treble than they need because they're not listening to the amps actual tone, and you have a recipe for a volume argument. Sound guy (and everyone else who isnt the guitarist) is getting their ears blasted by 3khz, and the guitarist is like 'no way man my tone is fat!' because he's standing next to his amp looking down at it so all he hears are mid and low frequncies.

The number of people who fail to grasp this concept is staggering. Furthermore, the improved bass response you get from putting the amp on the floor is negated by the fact that mic won't pick any of this up really, so if you're in a venue where you need to be miced, you probably are playing a 2x12 combo or less, in which case the amps' height means you aren't hearing it properly and will probably dial in too much treble, and the extra bass response you think you're getting doesn't matter because its being miced anyway. If you're playing a venue large enough to warrant a 4x12 or similar, then the sound is much more evenly dispersed, so this is less of an issue, however you'll still be told to turn down because no sound man is going to rely on your stage sound to fill the venue, he will rather put more through the mains.

Dang! Fantastic advice here.

I want to emphasize how putting the amp on a tall enough stand so your ear is actually hearing the HF beam allows you to dial in what you actually sound like, not what you think you sound like. Do this, and there is no beam to blow anyone's ears off and argue about, and no need for any stuff in front of the speaker to cut the beaming down.

dc

The Kid
10-08-2011, 01:46 AM
A 2X12 on top of another 2X12.

mondaythursday
10-08-2011, 09:48 AM
Most of the time I put it on a chair.

george nada
10-08-2011, 01:13 PM
Most of the time I put it on a chair.

i usually use an end table, but occasionally a chair. for me, the combo sounds better off the floor. truth is though. it's pretty hard to make an ugly sound come out of this amp. pretty much where ever i put the knobs, the speaker is a cornucopia of tone, overflowing onto the audio scape known to my ear.
it washes over me like a wave - drowning me with it's enormity. it's sonic tidal pull irresistible. soon, i find myself adrift on a sea of sound. all i can do is go where the wind and the currents will take me. finally, the tide recedes, and, like parting lovers, i find mysef watching her go from the sandy shores of the here and the now as my fingers close the vol knob on my guitar at the end of a song.

Steve Hotra
10-08-2011, 01:16 PM
Depends ... with IEM's its on the floor sideways.
With floor wedges, the amp is in front of me, on an amp stand.
If I'm in a situation where I need to be loud, amp is behind me.

Steve Hotra
10-08-2011, 01:17 PM
Always on a stand. Reduced stage volume.

:agree

Good advice and shouldn't harm your hearing.

Kanetoads
10-08-2011, 01:37 PM
Well I have played with plenty of guys who threw am amp on a chair and still didn't have any sense of volume...so chair, stands, and floor has zip to do with volume control...and as far pissing off sound guys....since half off them have never heard of a sound meter, then they have no leg to stand on when they say your too loud...

'Really...how loud?'

'Well you know...loud.''

'You mean like two cats humping at 2 am loud or Ac/Dc Live at Donnington loud?'

'Dude, you know...loud.'

'psst' (rolls eyes, walks off laughing) ;)

Cream
10-08-2011, 02:07 PM
Amp on the ground.
Amp on the ground.
Lookin' like a fool with ya
Amp on the ground.

DC1
10-08-2011, 03:59 PM
Amp on the ground.
Amp on the ground.
Lookin' like a fool with ya
Amp on the ground.


:spit

:rotflmao:rotflmao



dc

Kanetoads
10-08-2011, 04:27 PM
Aussie - When I play out in a band, not jam band stuff..the guitar player next to me couldn't hear him self unless he was the loudest guy on stage...so always hating volume/mix issues, I proposed moving him to the other side of the stage..problem solved...mix problem...then for little venues, we were told we were too loud...oh gosh, didn't we forget to tell ya, the lead singer is 60% deaf from playing thirty years with a Quad Reverb cranked and never miked..

So remember some where the doobies had guitar cabs in front point back and angle up like monitors...so we tried it..

The band could crank up, each member had their own personal beam of death right up at their head...no one thought our sound splattering the drummer and back wall were a problem, and I especially liked being able to lean forward and twiddle the knobs...vs turning my back on the audience and bending over..

Another benefit? The drummer never said he couldn't hear us.

willhutch
10-08-2011, 04:42 PM
I like the amp on the floor blowing past my knees. I certainly don't want it pointing at MY ears.

I dial it in by kneeling in front of it so I hear the on-axis signal. I usually angle the amp across the stage so it's not beaming the front row. What I hear has less treble than the amp is putting out. I know the treble is there.

I've also used a baffle in front of the speakers. That works well.

rongtr
10-08-2011, 09:16 PM
I've often wondered why guitarists don't use a tilted back ext. cab instead of the pa monitor, to hear themselves.

jeff beck did for quite awhile. he had marshall make him some custom 2-12 guitar wedges and he simply ran long cables out from one of his spare heads, taking a split from his main signal chain. this way he did'nt have to blow out the whole stage with guitar. i don't know if he's still doing it today but i always thought it was a cool solution, and i'm surprised it has'nt caught on with others

I saw Larry Carlton in the late 80's have two 1X12" wedges that were miked pointed up at him as monitors- It was a small venue, and it sounded great in the house.

Scooter Burbank
12-08-2011, 02:55 PM
My vote for an amp stand all the way:) they are an integral part of my tone and enjoyment when I play guitar; without one I am always turning my head this way and that in weird ways trying to correct for not getting a direct sound from my speaker, everything is just reflections of what I want to hear, thus phased and comb filtered twice as intensely as if the speaker is pointing at my ears.

One consideration I never hear adequately accounted for by the pro stand position is the following: You are hearing your amp well because it's pointed at you; what about the audience? They're hearing "reflections" that are "phased and comb filtered," right?

Everyone knows that I have the best tone in all of the Western States, and I keep my amp on the floor.

FatTeleTom
12-08-2011, 03:03 PM
One consideration I never hear adequately accounted for by the pro stand position is the following: You are hearing your amp well because it's pointed at you; what about the audience? They're hearing "reflections" that are "phased and comb filtered," right?

I don't know if reflections and filtering are really a major consideration. For me, it's all about tonal balance--properly accounting for the fact that the amp is much brighter on-axis.

But if phase and comb filtering are issues, it's probably significant that the audience is usually much further away from the amp than the guitar player.

Scooter Burbank
12-08-2011, 03:05 PM
I don't know if reflections and filtering are really a major consideration. For me, it's all about tonal balance--properly accounting for the fact that the amp is much brighter on-axis.

But if phase and comb filtering are issues, it's probably significant that the audience is usually much further away from the amp than the guitar player.

Does this mean that you prefer yours on a stand?

FatTeleTom
12-08-2011, 03:13 PM
Does this mean that you prefer yours on a stand?

Yep. I actually use a StandBack, so the amp is on the floor but tilted back.

I used to use a metal stand that also raised the amp off the floor, but the StandBack weights about 100x less and takes up a tiny fraction of the space, which is handy when you use a Miata to get yourself to gigs.

Scooter Burbank
12-08-2011, 03:14 PM
Curious, do you mic your amp? if so then you can point your amp at your ears and the audience will still hear the same best tone they heard with it on the floor, stand, ceiling etc. as long as the mic is in the same place relative to the speaker. Perfect mic placement makes for great tone too. I pesonally feel that if i can't hear my amp well then i don't play to my fullest potential, thus the audience gets a sour performance and nobody is happy. It's all subjective though, very pleased here when anyone can find the system that works best for for themselves.

+100 for amp stands IMO

I play some gigs where the amp gets miked and some that it doesn't -- depends on the venue. I agree with you -- I need to hear my guitar playing. I put it on the floor and turn it up. But I also like to listen to it from different angles to see how it sounds at different spots. If I go and stand right next to it, the tone darkens substantially. I'm used to that. I'm open to amp stands and have tried using them, but I always end up not liking the sound as much as I do when it's on the floor. This is possibly user error on my part (not adjusting EQ carefully enough). At home, I actually play with the amp on a stand. It's a Quick Lok stand.

FatTeleTom
12-08-2011, 03:32 PM
I I'm open to amp stands and have tried using them, but I always end up not liking the sound as much as I do when it's on the floor.

That's where, at least theoretically, you may be doing your audience a disservice. The possible scenario is this:

You point the amp at your hand, and don't like the sound (too bright?). So you level the amp back out. Now the tone sounds good to you (because you're not in the bright beam?).

But if the amp is now pointing at your audience's heads, they may be hearing the very tone that you didn't like! So, the amp sound good to you, but bad to everyone else. Not good.

Now that's a hypothetical situation, and there are lots of variables: No stage? Maybe the amp is below the audience's ears now too, and sounds fine. Very tall stage? Maybe the amp is shooting over their heads, and sounds fine.

But in a lot of situations I play in (small bars), the amp-flat-on-the-floor thing means the beamy sound is pointed right at the folks sitting in the first few rows, so they are hearing something very different than what I hear.

Angling the amp up lets me dial in a sound that's hopefully pleasing for everyone.

Scooter Burbank
12-08-2011, 03:38 PM
That's where, at least theoretically, you may be doing your audience a disservice. The possible scenario is this:

You point the amp at your hand, and don't like the sound (too bright?). So you level the amp back out. Now the tone sounds good to you (because you're not in the bright beam?).

But if the amp is now pointing at your audience's heads, they may be hearing the very tone that you didn't like! So, the amp sound good to you, but bad to everyone else. Not good.

Now that's a hypothetical situation, and there are lots of variables: No stage? Maybe the amp is below the audience's ears now too, and sounds fine. Very tall stage? Maybe the amp is shooting over their heads, and sounds fine.

But in a lot of situations I play in (small bars), the amp-flat-on-the-floor thing means the beamy sound is pointed right at the folks sitting in the first few rows, so they are hearing something very different than what I hear.

Angling the amp up lets me dial in a sound that's hopefully pleasing for everyone.

I hear what you're saying; again, though, I do try to listen to it from a variety of positions. Also, for the few people that may be in a direct beam line, there may be a bunch of others that are off-axis and "just right." As you say, there are a lot of variables. One for me is that I don't play with an ice-picky black-face amp to begin with, so super trebly with my gear is probably not going to cause anyone's ears to bleed.

I enjoy thinking about this stuff and experiementing. I may give an amp stand another go.

FatTeleTom
12-08-2011, 03:41 PM
No question that one of the challenges of small-time gigging is having any clue what you actually sound like to the audience at various points around the room.

Ideally, you're mic'd up and you have a skilled sound guy making sure you sound as good as possible everywhere in the room. In the real world.....

gennation
12-08-2011, 03:51 PM
On an amp stand towards the side of me so it covers across the stage more than towards the FOH area.

thetone
12-08-2011, 04:07 PM
another vote for RockManDan's answer. he nailed it. I've got to hear all the treble or I will dial it up too much. That means the amp is on a stand or road case - it doesn't matter to me - as long as the speaker is pointing at my head.

Walsh used to put his Fender on a chair back in the James Gang days. Pretty sure Keaggy used to put his Twin on a chair too.

lspaulsp
12-08-2011, 04:15 PM
One consideration I never hear adequately accounted for by the pro stand position is the following: You are hearing your amp well because it's pointed at you; what about the audience? They're hearing "reflections" that are "phased and comb filtered," right?

Everyone knows that I have the best tone in all of the Western States, and I keep my amp on the floor.

Almost anyone will tell you to bounce your amp off (wall/roof) something unless it's a sealed cab with a mike.

Scooter Burbank
12-08-2011, 04:20 PM
Almost anyone will tell you to bounce your amp off (wall/roof) something unless it's a sealed cab with a mike.

That doesn't seem to be true, unless the "almost anyones" to whom you're referring never post here. The advocates of pointing their amps straight at their heads via an amp stand seem to be saying that eliminating any reflections (bounce) is the best way to hear yourself.

gillman royce
12-08-2011, 05:07 PM
The stage dictates all, but I prefer it on the ground or still in the bottom half of the anvil.

joshatatlasstands
12-08-2011, 07:24 PM
+1, i don't personally know anyone who does the bounce off the wall thing, heard of it, but saying "almost anyone" would tell you to do it that way seems a bit too broadly focused.
the crazy thing about it though is that my amps are AC30s and the way VOX does the controls on them would verify the bounce of the wall technique because if you stand in front of them the controls are upside down and backwards :P

Rockledge
12-09-2011, 01:25 AM
One consideration I never hear adequately accounted for by the pro stand position is the following: You are hearing your amp well because it's pointed at you; what about the audience? They're hearing "reflections" that are "phased and comb filtered," right?

Everyone knows that I have the best tone in all of the Western States, and I keep my amp on the floor.


As opposed to the amp sitting on the floor, having the reflection from the floor causing phase cancellation, the loss of sound from the amp hitting you in the back of the legs then whoever is directly in front of the stage, as opposed to the amp being up high enough that the sound travels to the back of the hall?
Not to mention the benefit of having an open back cab a few feet off the floor and the sound that reflects high off the back wall.........

Lotis
12-09-2011, 09:13 AM
On a stand tilted up to hear precisely what is going on. Keeps me from being too loud but there is the problem of bleed into vocal mikes sometimes.

richt
12-09-2011, 03:02 PM
I play a 1x12 combo and have it on the floor to the right of me on stage, pointed up like a monitor. This approach works great for me and makes it easy for the sound guy/gal to mix.

Cheers,

Richt

Nurk2
12-09-2011, 03:17 PM
Ampstand, at about 2:00 (I'm stage right), pointed right up at my ear and mic-ed to the board. Everything that I play, I hear first, and correctly. I'm going to tell you this flat out - and you can believe me or not - if you're relying on the sound from the amp blowing at the back of your legs behind you to bleed off the stage and into the audience for your sound reinforcement, you have NO idea what your sound is in the audience and where it is in the mix. You're guessing. Maybe you're a good guesser. I'm betting you're not as good as you think. I'd rather have someone - like a sound man - who's actually in the FOH control that for me. Zero bleed off the stage is always my goal. If it makes you FEEL better to have your amp sitting on the floor when you play, consider the simple statement that "feelings are not facts."

JosephN0624
12-20-2011, 08:14 AM
Ampstand, at about 2:00 (I'm stage right), pointed right up at my ear and mic-ed to the board. Everything that I play, I hear first, and correctly. I'm going to tell you this flat out - and you can believe me or not - if you're relying on the sound from the amp blowing at the back of your legs behind you to bleed off the stage and into the audience for your sound reinforcement, you have NO idea what your sound is in the audience and where it is in the mix. You're guessing. Maybe you're a good guesser. I'm betting you're not as good as you think. I'd rather have someone - like a sound man - who's actually in the FOH control that for me. Zero bleed off the stage is always my goal. If it makes you FEEL better to have your amp sitting on the floor when you play, consider the simple statement that "feelings are not facts."

Aren't most gigs mic'd and monitored though? In almost all cases I have my sound hitting me in the face through the monitors and that in turn is also what the audience is hearing. I also have a pretty good idea of where I need to be to dial everything in....because of rehearsal and sitting in front of my amp for hours a week. Not saying it's a bad thing to have your amp on a stand aimed at your head either....it's not like it could hurt anything.

crzyfngers
12-20-2011, 08:28 AM
Aren't most gigs mic'd and monitored though? In almost all cases I have my sound hitting me in the face through the monitors and that in turn is also what the audience is hearing. I also have a pretty good idea of where I need to be to dial everything in....because of rehearsal and sitting in front of my amp for hours a week. Not saying it's a bad thing to have your amp on a stand aimed at your head either....it's not like it could hurt anything.
actually very few of my gigs are mic'ed. if they are, we never put instruments in the monitors. that's just asking for trouble.

Dr. Jimmy
12-20-2011, 08:30 AM
On the floor. Two reasons for that:

1. It sounds better to me on stage. I like the bass response. Seems like the sound is less directional than with an amp on a stand.

2. Most places I play unmiced so the amp has to be loud enough to make the guitar sit where it should in the mix. I don't want all that sound playing straight into my ears.


^^^^This^^^^

I get many compliments on my tone and volume consideration from soundmen. I just like the overall low end by having it directly on the floor. Been doing it that way for close to 30 years, works for ME.

rizla
12-20-2011, 08:31 AM
Dont think it matters too much where or how its sitting, I know what it sounds like from most points of the stage. I move around a bit and can spend 1/2 the set over the other side of the stage.
I would hate to have my amp or anyone elses pointing at my head and ears. Thats not my idea of a good night out.
Are you rooted to the spot most of the night if you have to have the amp pointed at your ears or head?

crzyfngers
12-20-2011, 08:47 AM
Dont think it matters too much where or how its sitting, I know what it sounds like from most points of the stage. I move around a bit and can spend 1/2 the set over the other side of the stage.
I would hate to have my amp or anyone elses pointing at my head and ears. Thats not my idea of a good night out.
Are you rooted to the spot most of the night if you have to have the amp pointed at your ears or head?
if you can't walk around the stage and hear everything, somebody is too loud. not a soundman problem that's a band problem.

tdawg
12-20-2011, 08:52 AM
I used to do the amp stand thing myself. got over it. I think I get a better tone with the amp on the floor, generally carries into the mix more effectively and I can turn up a touch louder. Just have to be careful of amp placement a touch and should be able to hear yourself.
Of course its great when you can get your amp 3-5 feet behind you, rarely happens to me as we play small stages, but its so nice when you get that full bloom in your ears. Its a different sound than an amp aimed at your head from too close..

kimock
12-20-2011, 09:11 AM
When you are gigging, do you place your amp or cab on the floor or on an amp stand or chair pointing at you?

I always have mine on the floor behind me....

Wherever it sounds best.
Sometimes that's on the floor if it's a really small place or a really big place, but usually up on a case or something if it's my own gear or smallish backline.

There are no hard and fast rules that apply as the conditions change.
The ideal solution for one band in one venue might be a disaster for the same act in a different venue, or a different a band in the same venue.
You get the idea.

joshatatlasstands
12-20-2011, 09:13 AM
if you can't walk around the stage and hear everything, somebody is too loud. not a soundman problem that's a band problem.
I've been in situations where the drums were so rockin in my face that there was no way to hear myself unless my amp was dimed, but on an amp stand pointed at my head i can deal with any situation thrown my way, and if i need to use the hearing protection I have that available as well. Amps sound different on the floor than on a stand, i prefer the sound of an amp without coloration due to proximity effects or eq compensations due to dispersion toward my feet. I've spent a many long nights mixing down recordings and I never point the monitors anywhere but my ears and there is always a sweet spot in the room which is never over on the other side of the speaker or somewhere other than front and very close to centered. yes it's all relative, not trying to say anyone else is wrong, because they are not. pointing a speaker at my feet though makes no sense to me, even if i do intent to walk away from the sweet spot for a while, I know where to find it again if i need it because it actually exists in a place where i don't have to lay down on the floor to find it...

One cool thing they taught me in the recording studios is to listen to the room. they would play a sine wave at different frequencies and tell the students to walk around the room with the speakers cranked. there were spots in the room that were three times the volume and there were spots in the room where the sound completely disappeared, I mean completely, yes all of it gone, sometimes it was different in each ear and just moving your head an inch or two would change everything. blasting in one ear and nothing heard in the other ear...killer demonstration I must say, i was turned into a true believer at that moment regarding speaker dispersion, sound reflections, and room acoustics... This cannot be demonstrated with full music recording, only with single frequency waves. it's an amazing artifact in room acoustics that many don't realize still exist when full songs are played in the same space. One thing was for sure though, when you walked over to the spot in front of the monitors the sound was always right what you wanted and needed it to be, no matter what the rest of the room was doing. This is the only way to know what is coming out of your speakers, point them at your ears. It's physics, yes relative to what you like, but the physics of sound does not change no matter what you like or feel comfortable doing with speaker dispersion.


:)

very grateful for all of you at TGP, great forum with great folks all with great comments.

BobbyRay
12-20-2011, 09:55 AM
Wherever it sounds best.
Sometimes that's on the floor if it's a really small place or a really big place, but usually up on a case or something if it's my own gear or smallish backline.

There are no hard and fast rules that apply as the conditions change.
The ideal solution for one band in one venue might be a disaster for the same act in a different venue, or a different a band in the same venue.
You get the idea.


YUP!:agree

Some rooms or stages just require different set-up. It is what it is. There is no one formula that works every single time. Ask Einstein. There is no master equation.

The more you play the more you find what works and the quicker you are able to identify what will work when presented with a new venue or set of problems.

kimock
12-20-2011, 06:39 PM
That doesn't seem to be true, unless the "almost anyones" to whom you're referring never post here. The advocates of pointing their amps straight at their heads via an amp stand seem to be saying that eliminating any reflections (bounce) is the best way to hear yourself.

I'm "almost anyone".
I always go for the first big reflection I can get in rooms of accomodating size and dimension.
Some rooms are too large or too small to take advantage of, but if you know how to take advantage of the whole room you'll get better guitar specific results sonically and performance-wise than by tight monitoring and ignoring the acoustic space.

The "best way to hear yourself" as it's being used here is probably code for "nobody else wants to hear you", or "Jeez, that's pretty bad, how do we get less of that everywhere?"
IOW, most of the rationale for tight monitoring guitar onstage in this thread is guys that don't know what they're talking about talking to guys that don't know what they're doing for purposes of damage control.

BB King's amp is on the floor, Ry Cooder's amps are on the floor, Bill Frisell's amps are normally on the floor, although I have seen him with one up, one down.
Know what I mean? Plenty of great sounding players sitting or standing there with their amps on the floor, not pointed at their heads.:huh

FatTeleTom
12-20-2011, 06:45 PM
BB King's amp is on the floor, Ry Cooder's amps are on the floor, Bill Frisell's amps are normally on the floor, although I have seen him with one up, one down.
Know what I mean? Plenty of great sounding players sitting or standing there with their amps on the floor, not pointed at their heads.:huh

Sure, but those guys are probably also getting exactly as much of themselves as they want in their PA monitors. Their amps probably also aren't pointing directly at an audience member's head 10 feet down range, at least most of the time.

I see those situations as a different case than a typical weekend warrior small bar gig, where you often only have vocals in the monitors, and your amp may or may not be mic'd at all.

Give me a nice big stage, with the entire band feed through a nice monitor mix, and I'm happy to put my amp flat on the floor, preferably pushed a long way back.

stratotastic
12-20-2011, 06:58 PM
Sure, but those guys are probably also getting exactly as much of themselves as they want in their PA monitors. Their amps probably also aren't pointing directly at an audience member's head 10 feet down range, at least most of the time.

I see those situations as a different case than a typical weekend warrior small bar gig, where you often only have vocals in the monitors, and your amp may or may not be mic'd at all.

Give me a nice big stage, with the entire band feed through a nice monitor mix, and I'm happy to put my amp flat on the floor, preferably pushed a long way back.

Yup. Mentioning BB King and Ry Cooder is completely irrelevant to the discussion at hand, unless everyone in this thread is touring the world with state-of-the-art sound systems.

Prerequisite
12-20-2011, 07:07 PM
On a small stage with no iso boxes or such, it goes on the floor and tilts back on the legs.
On a large stage/or iso box-equipped stage, it goes in the box and monitored through in-ears.

FatTeleTom
12-20-2011, 07:12 PM
I think Kimock makes an excellent point, which is that what really matters is what sounds good, and that's going to vary widely from room to room (and he has WAY more experience than I do at figuring that stuff out)!

My point is just that there's a fundamental difference between the two basic scenarios of being mic'd and monitored versus relying on your amp for monitoring (and possibly carrying the room), and the solutions sets may vary heavily depending on which scenario you are in.

But it's worth remembering that the ultimate goal is what sounds good in the room. I think that entails being able to hear yourself well too of course--it won't sound good if you can't play well. But there are many factors at work.

kimock
12-20-2011, 09:58 PM
Yup. Mentioning BB King and Ry Cooder is completely irrelevant to the discussion at hand, unless everyone in this thread is touring the world with state-of-the-art sound systems.

Neither of those guys is touring the world with a state of the art sound system, btw. .

The issue is stage sound, the goal is achieving a rewarding guitar sound for the musician that translates to FOH.

The point is: that goal is accomplished more often than not with a speaker cab sitting on the floor or in the tray of an anvil case bottom by those artists that set the bar for guitar sound in my humble opinion.

The cab sitting on the floor may not be responsible for the "good sound", but it's obviously not preventing it either.
Likewise, pointing the speaker at your head with the amp on a stand isn't going to make your sound any better or worse, it's just going to localize it.

Normally when somebody is making a sound onstage we want to hear, we go to great lengths to AVOID localizing it, we want it everywhere, we put it in all the monitors, turn it way up in the house, y'know, generally spread it around?

Normally when we're trying to baffle, minimize bleed, or "point something away", etc., it's because that sound is unpleasant, it's causing a problem.
If you were making a sound worth listening to in the first place, like BB King for example, why not just put the amp on the floor?
Blah, blah, blah, you get the point. . .

Just sayin', getting a good guitar sound in a room, for the player, the band, the mic., and getting it to translate to FOH for the audience, and "do you put the amp on a stand or on the floor" are completely different issues.

Don't confuse getting a sound that supports a performance that people will pay to hear with minimizing complaints about bad sound by rubbing the guitarists' nose in it.

splatt
12-20-2011, 10:01 PM
my speaker cabs are always on the floor.
any venue.
studio, too.

tquig
12-21-2011, 01:59 AM
I have played with guys at jams that had amps on stands and blew everyone on stage and the audince out-- so sometimes that doesn't prevent being to loud. We gig twice a month at a place with a small raised stage-my amp goes on the floor on the stage-I stand in front of the stage so in reality ithe amp is waist high to where I am standing.

Crocker
12-21-2011, 05:40 AM
Combos on stands. Looks after the weird bass peak in the eq when they're on the floor, and puts the controls closer to hand. I also often point the amp across the stage sideways or back at me, miced through the p.a. An extension cab sometimes used in the same sort of way.

BobbyRay
12-21-2011, 06:50 AM
I'm "almost anyone".
I always go for the first big reflection I can get in rooms of accomodating size and dimension.
Some rooms are too large or too small to take advantage of, but if you know how to take advantage of the whole room you'll get better guitar specific results sonically and performance-wise than by tight monitoring and ignoring the acoustic space.

The "best way to hear yourself" as it's being used here is probably code for "nobody else wants to hear you", or "Jeez, that's pretty bad, how do we get less of that everywhere?"
IOW, most of the rationale for tight monitoring guitar onstage in this thread is guys that don't know what they're talking about talking to guys that don't know what they're doing for purposes of damage control.

BB King's amp is on the floor, Ry Cooder's amps are on the floor, Bill Frisell's amps are normally on the floor, although I have seen him with one up, one down.
Know what I mean? Plenty of great sounding players sitting or standing there with their amps on the floor, not pointed at their heads.:huh

Sure, but those guys are probably also getting exactly as much of themselves as they want in their PA monitors. Their amps probably also aren't pointing directly at an audience member's head 10 feet down range, at least most of the time.

I see those situations as a different case than a typical weekend warrior small bar gig, where you often only have vocals in the monitors, and your amp may or may not be mic'd at all.

Give me a nice big stage, with the entire band feed through a nice monitor mix, and I'm happy to put my amp flat on the floor, preferably pushed a long way back.

Yup. Mentioning BB King and Ry Cooder is completely irrelevant to the discussion at hand, unless everyone in this thread is touring the world with state-of-the-art sound systems.


Again I'm in complete agreement with Steve Kimock here.

It's about playing the space.

I'd be willing to bet you dollars to donuts that BB and many of our favorite guys get most of their on-stage volume from thier amp. They may add to that with the monitors, but the real thing they do is play with the band!

There is the key to it all. Learning where you fit in the mix naturally and hanging out there. Learning how to mix yourself with your built in monitoring system, your ears and your brain!

Play the space, the room, the environment...whatever, just listen and enjoy it! If I play a competely dry room, I say, "Cool!" Let me mine this funky dry sound for all it's worth!

Jamie_Mitchell
12-22-2011, 12:07 PM
Know what I mean? Plenty of great sounding players sitting or standing there with their amps on the floor, not pointed at their heads.:huh

i've been going through this alot lately.
been playing w/ the amp on a milk-crate for a good bit of time.
recently got a little tilt-back amp stand. seems great for some situations, not so much for others.
playing in alot of rock groups, and trying to control stage volumes to blend w/ vox in shitty rooms + shitty PAs.
w/o the amp being miced up though... idk, it might not be the right solution...

t_scott
12-28-2011, 08:56 PM
Anyone know of any great places to get custom flight cases? best prices?