Blues deluxe vs hot rod deluxe?

[mc2]

Still looking for a little grab-n-go gig amp for blues/rock. I'm really a fender gut and have the BF thing covered. Heard a guy running a PR and Blues Deluxe with a strat and man! His tone was huge! Not sure what pedals but I have a ton of dirt boxes anyway. A better clean channel will win.

Hunting the threads/CL and these two amps seem pretty comparable on the used mkt. Is one better than the other?

Cheers

[CharlyG]

Well, the BD will give you more of a tweed tone, and the HotRod will give you more gain. That's about it.

[StratMan2.0]

there both class amps dude. I've giged with the hot rod deluxe and it handles loud volumes pretty well. if you can try and get the chance to try out both then make your mind up from that.

[dzeitlin]

my main gigging amp is the blues deluxe. i personally find the blues deluxe to have a warmer, rounder clean than the hot rod.

[silentbob]

my main gigging amp is the blues deluxe. i personally find the blues deluxe to have a warmer, rounder clean than the hot rod.

I couldn't agree more and I still kick myself in the ass for selling mine a decade ago.

[CharlyG]

Thanks guys, I was thinking of selling mine... Now, I'm gonna do the Fromel mod to get rid of that nasty master vol pot, among other things!

[B-Nads]

I A/B'd both pretty extensively at a local shop last week, including both through the HRD cab.

I play country - mostly chicken pickin', but I like some warmth on the low-end. The Blues Deluxe was a clear winner over the HRD for me - it had a much more present, room filling low, with the typical Fender chime up top. The HRD almost had a compressed sound, by comparisson, and didn't appeal to me at all.

* If you buy either, I strongly suggest changing your volume pot, as the stock one goes from zero to hero at the slightest touch.

[Alton]

So, since we're talking about the Blues Jr. ...which flavor is best?
So far I have seen the following variations:

Blues Jr. - black tolex single 12"
Blues Jr. III - black tolex 12"
Blues Jr. - tweed 12"
Blues Jr. - tweed 2x10"
Blues Jr. Hot Rod(?) - black tolex 12"

Will the real (best) Blues Jr please stand up?

[FenderBigot]

I just sold my MIA Blues Dlx and replaced it with a DRRI... the BDlx was just too loud at 40 watts, but I loved it. I just listened to one of the last live recordings with did when I was playing that amp and it sounded nice!

The assessments above are accurate, the Blues is warmer and more of a full-er/rounder tone than then HR. I have owned an HRD and it just didn't sound as nice to my ears.

The original blues series, while not a tweed amp, were voiced to sound like a tweed Bassman (Charly points that out above). I also had a MIA Blues Deville 4x10 that was one very full sounding amp too. Fender did a good job with the orginals for sure.

FWIW... I've never seen a Blues Jr stock from Fender in a 2x10" config, probably an aftermarket cabinet.

EDIT... I just sold my 1994 almost mint US made Blues Deluxe for $500. I've seen used HRD RI's go for as low as $350 on ebay or CL.

[Selsaral]

* If you buy either, I strongly suggest changing your volume pot, as the stock one goes from zero to hero at the slightest touch.

I was shocked to see Fender actually respond to this criticism: the new V3 version of these amps have a different volume pot on them.

[CharlyG]

YAY! We won one over the marketing guys!!!!

[mc2]

Alton-were not talking blus jr. The blues deluxe is a 40 w amp with a 1-12 and a larger cab-I think it's got an effects loop too.

Fwiw-the blues jr v3 seems to have undergone a few updates but remains a 2-el84 15 watt 1-12. Can't vouch for any real tonal differences. The hot rod deluxe is also about 40 watts and both of the deluxe amps use 6l6 tubes.

[mc2]

Gentleman. Thanks for the input. Seems like a used price is around 4-450 for either hrd or bd? What do you think?

[Endr_rpm]

DC craigslist6 would agree about the ASKING price, but they are often posted for several weeks before actually SELLING ~$350-375, esp since Gen 3 came out. The older MIA BDs seem to hold their value, but the reissues, while made in Mexico, have certain advantages, like adjustable bias, that allow you to run 6v6s in them to 1/2 the wattage and get a more DR sound. Reliability does not appear to differ much based on point of origin.

[Badfrog]

DC craigslist6 would agree about the ASKING price, but they are often posted for several weeks before actually SELLING ~$350-375, esp since Gen 3 came out. The older MIA BDs seem to hold their value, but the reissues, while made in Mexico, have certain advantages, like adjustable bias, that allow you to run 6v6s in them to 1/2 the wattage and get a more DR sound. Reliability does not appear to differ much based on point of origin.

I gotta find out how this works (using 6V6s and adjusting the bias and cutting the wattage down by half). Is it safe or does it cause potential problems with the amp??

[CharlyG]

From Eurotube site:

JJ 6V6S Factory description: Gold plated control grid for improved fidelity. Special plate alloy improves performance over any 6V6. This tube has the ability to handle 450 plate volts in triode mode and 500 plate volts in pentode mode!
Our observation: This tube has spectacular performance capabilities! This is truly one of the best 6V6 tubes I have ever auditioned. They have a amazing low frequency extension without getting boomy and a high end much like an RCA until they get into saturation where they are more like the old Sylvania 6V6's only fuller and a bit more focused. Absolutely wonderful in Deluxe Reverbs!
These are also just the thing for Fender Hotrod Deluxe amps if you want less power and an earlier breakup. The JJ's can handle the plate voltages with ease! DO NOT try this with the sovtek or the EH or new tungsol 6V6's, these are all sovtek tubes and cannot handle the higher plate voltages.

[guitarnut_1]

Have had both. Currently play a BD from 1993, green board one. It's a nice, cheap, portable, pretty good sounding amp. I think the BD sounds warmer, better. But they are very similar.

I think however soundwise, you'd be better off getting a Vibroverb. Doesn't weigh much, sounds nice and warm (much better than the BD IMO) and you can still overdrive it with a TS or an AC Booster.

The twins and supers are great, but man, who wants to move around a monster piece like this. I'm not Santana who's got like carrying staff for his gear...

[Badfrog]

From Eurotube site:

Thanks CharleyG. I'm kind of excited about this. My 2004 Blues Deluxe is currently in the shop (making way too much noise). Assuming I get it fixed I'm going to be putting in a quality low gain tube in the V1 (something like a 12AT7, 5751) and I will definately go for the JJ 6V6 power tubes (I do have a multimeter so I can properly set the bias). I"ll also get the volume pot changed as well (to an audio taper).

If all that goes well then I'll go another step further and invest in a good speak and will be all set.

[bluesky636]

Thanks CharleyG. I'm kind of excited about this. My 2004 Blues Deluxe is currently in the shop (making way too much noise). Assuming I get it fixed I'm going to be putting in a quality low gain tube in the V1 (something like a 12AT7, 5751) and I will definately go for the JJ 6V6 power tubes (I do have a multimeter so I can properly set the bias). I"ll also get the volume pot changed as well (to an audio taper).

If all that goes well then I'll go another step further and invest in a good speak and will be all set.

Do not put a 12AT7 in V1. I tried it and the sound was very dry and sterile. In my BDRI I am using the following:

V1 = Phillips JAN 5751
V2 = JJ 12AX7
V3 = JJ 12AT7
V4/5 = JJ 6L6GC

Power tube bias is set at 38 mA cathode current (about 36 mA plate current) at a plate voltage of 413 VDC. Sound is very sweet and "Bluesy".

[CharlyG]

I have a 12 AY7 in V2 everything else is 12AX7, but I use a matched PI.

[bluesky636]

I have a 12 AY7 in V2 everything else is 12AX7, but I use a matched PI.

V2 is the wrong place for a 12AY7. V2 in the BDRI (only 1/2 of the tube is used) is for tone stack gain recovery and part of the drive channel (which is very different from the Hot Rod Deluxe/Deville) and has very little effect on amp tone. Fender used a 12AY7 in V1 of the tweed amps including both the Bassman and Twin.

[Alton]

Alton-were not talking blus jr. The blues deluxe is a 40 w amp with a 1-12 and a larger cab-I think it's got an effects loop too.

Fwiw-the blues jr v3 seems to have undergone a few updates but remains a 2-el84 15 watt 1-12. Can't vouch for any real tonal differences. The hot rod deluxe is also about 40 watts and both of the deluxe amps use 6l6 tubes.

Well see! There ya go! Shows how much I know about the Fender product line. :eeks
I have my Fender Twin and love it and I thought similar tones in a much lighter and easier to carry package would be good idea.

So, Blues Deluxe ya say?!? Looks like yet another trip to GC is in order.

[christhered]

can i run the jj6v6 in my hot rod deville 4x10? i realize that its rated at higher power, but is it possible?

[james...]

Hot rod clean tones are pretty meh.

[bluesky636]

can i run the jj6v6 in my hot rod deville 4x10? i realize that its rated at higher power, but is it possible?

Eurotubes states: " 6V6S
Factory description: Gold plated control grid for improved fidelity. Special plate alloy improves performance over any 6V6. This tube has the ability to handle 450 plate volts in triode mode and 500 plate volts in pentode mode!"

Plate voltage of the Hot Rod Deluxe is about 430 VDC. Plate voltage of the Hot Rod Deville is about 485 VDC. Naturally, plate voltage wil decrease somewhat as bias is increased.

[christhered]

Eurotubes states: " 6V6S
Factory description: Gold plated control grid for improved fidelity. Special plate alloy improves performance over any 6V6. This tube has the ability to handle 450 plate volts in triode mode and 500 plate volts in pentode mode!"

Plate voltage of the Hot Rod Deluxe is about 430 VDC. Plate voltage of the Hot Rod Deville is about 485 VDC. Naturally, plate voltage wil decrease somewhat as bias is increased.


thanks, i had no idea what the plate voltage on the deville was.

[electrical]

I A/B'd them in a GC a few years ago. All I can say, is that I walked in intending to buy the Hot Rod Deluxe, and walked out with a brand new Blues Deluxe.

[CharlyG]

V2 is the wrong place for a 12AY7. V2 in the BDRI (only 1/2 of the tube is used) is for tone stack gain recovery and part of the drive channel (which is very different from the Hot Rod Deluxe/Deville) and has very little effect on amp tone. Fender used a 12AY7 in V1 of the tweed amps including both the Bassman and Twin.

Not sure what amp I was thinking of but I DID put one in V2(the first stage in the gain section) some dang place! As I recall, I was taming down the amp OD. Of course, I may be in the early stages of gezzerdom,and not remembering right at all.

[GlueMan]

my main gigging amp is the blues deluxe. i personally find the blues deluxe to have a warmer, rounder clean than the hot rod.

I agree. I have a Blues and my bandmate had a Hot Rod. the Blues sounds better.

[CharlyG]

I have had all of the Hotrod line and ended up with a Blues Deluxe..... The HRs have too much gain for me.

[try as i might]

I A/B'd them in a GC a few years ago. All I can say, is that I walked in intending to buy the Hot Rod Deluxe, and walked out with a brand new Blues Deluxe.

This. I did the same in january. Walked out with the bdri and haven't looked back. Not to say there are better amps out there, but it has great tone.

[Rad Skronker]

I A/B'd them in a GC a few years ago. All I can say, is that I walked in intending to buy the Hot Rod Deluxe, and walked out with a brand new Blues Deluxe.

I agree. I have a Blues and my bandmate had a Hot Rod. the Blues sounds better.

I have had all of the Hotrod line and ended up with a Blues Deluxe..... The HRs have too much gain for me.

This. I did the same in january. Walked out with the bdri and haven't looked back. Not to say there are better amps out there, but it has great tone.

I quoted all of these posts because they reflect my experience with the BDRI.

I played a couple of HR's then I tried the BDRI.
As soon as I opened it up a little in the store I was hearing all the right things.
Needless to say 2 yrs. later I still have the BDRI.

Ha, but I'm starting to drink the "Redplate" kool-aid.
Only problem is I can't try before I buy, so I may just pass.

[uitar99]

Damn, the GAS is revving up for a new amp-the bdri is on the radar.

I just can't tame my mesa express 5:25. I may not be an el 84 fan, My first tube amp was a 45 watt peavey prowler and bad GAS made me sell it for the express.

Bad GAS, Bad GAS

[Zardoz]

I quoted all of these posts because they reflect my experience with the BDRI.

I played a couple of HR's then I tried the BDRI.
As soon as I opened it up a little in the store I was hearing all the right things.
Needless to say 2 yrs. later I still have the BDRI.

Ha, but I'm starting to drink the "Redplate" kool-aid.
Only problem is I can't try before I buy, so I may just pass.

I agree entirely. I chose the Blues Deluxe over the Hot Rod because of it's sweeter clean sound. I've been playing this amps for over 2 years now. And although I am always trying new things (currently a Dr. Z MAZ 38 NR) I always come back to this amp. My bandmates like the sound very much and they always shake their heads when I come up with something else.

This amp is an absolute no-brainer. It takes pedals really well, the reverb sounds well, however, I very rarely use the crunch channel.

I am in the same situation as Skronker: I am thinking about a RedPlate Black'n'Blues. But even then, the Blues Deluxe will be a keeper.

[Badfrog]

Do not put a 12AT7 in V1. I tried it and the sound was very dry and sterile. In my BDRI I am using the following:

V1 = Phillips JAN 5751
V2 = JJ 12AX7
V3 = JJ 12AT7
V4/5 = JJ 6L6GC

Power tube bias is set at 38 mA cathode current (about 36 mA plate current) at a plate voltage of 413 VDC. Sound is very sweet and "Bluesy".

Well I just got a call from my repair shop and the guy said he put a NOS US made 12AT7 in the V1 slot and it quited the amp down big time. He also put in some other tubes and rebaised the amp, said it sounds great. I'll pick it up in a couple of days and we'll see how it does.

At least now I know that the culprit for my noise was the tube in the V1. If things work out, I'll be in the market for a better speaker for my BDRI.

[mc2]

Well I just got a call from my repair shop and the guy said he put a NOS US made 12AT7 in the V1 slot and it quited the amp down big time. He also put in some other tubes and rebaised the amp, said it sounds great. I'll pick it up in a couple of days and we'll see how it does.

At least now I know that the culprit for my noise was the tube in the V1. If things work out, I'll be in the market for a better speaker for my BDRI.

What'd that work cost ya-may I ask?

Also, what speakers are you folks using in the Blues Deluxes?? Seems like a 12-65 might work or even an H30?

[picknpluck]

I've heard that the Eminence Red White & Blues speaker is a pretty popular replacement for this amp. I'm not 100% sold that the stock speaker needs to be replaced on mine, and I refuse to do it just to do it. I will replace the tubes in short order, though.

[bluesking55]

Ive had 2 BDRI and cloned each other.. Red white blues speaker,tubes and biased it. also laquered the tweed. Amazing lil bugger. A guy I know bought 1 new and never replaced a thing, no tubes etc, sounds like crap. He plays out quite a bit with it. Most people dont notice it but I do. But If I play a guitar at a music store i always plug into the Deluxe. Cant beat that clean channel.

[bluesky636]

Well I just got a call from my repair shop and the guy said he put a NOS US made 12AT7 in the V1 slot and it quited the amp down big time. He also put in some other tubes and rebaised the amp, said it sounds great. I'll pick it up in a couple of days and we'll see how it does.

At least now I know that the culprit for my noise was the tube in the V1. If things work out, I'll be in the market for a better speaker for my BDRI.

Yes, a 12AT7 in V1 will quiet the amp down because a 12AT7 has a gain factor of 60 vs the 12AX7's gain factor of 100. However, a 12AT7 was designed as a driver tube an is better suited for use as a phase inverter, reverb driver, etc. I found a 12AT7 in V1 of my BDRI to be very sterile sounding - too clean if you will. A better choice would be a 5751 (gain factor of 70 and what I use) ala SRV or a 12AY7 (gain factor of 45) as used in the original Fender tweed amps.

[Badfrog]

What'd that work cost ya-may I ask?

Also, what speakers are you folks using in the Blues Deluxes?? Seems like a 12-65 might work or even an H30?

$75. Sounds like the NOS tube wasn't cheap and he also replaced the two other preamp tubes.

For some reason I seem that think that I should stick an Alnico speaker in my BD. I've seen good and bad about the Jensens. I'll probably look pretty hard at the Weber offerings.

[Badfrog]

Yes, a 12AT7 in V1 will quiet the amp down because a 12AT7 has a gain factor of 60 vs the 12AX7's gain factor of 100. However, a 12AT7 was designed as a driver tube an is better suited for use as a phase inverter, reverb driver, etc. I found a 12AT7 in V1 of my BDRI to be very sterile sounding - too clean if you will. A better choice would be a 5751 (gain factor of 70 and what I use) ala SRV or a 12AY7 (gain factor of 45) as used in the original Fender tweed amps.

I'll definately let you know what I think of this 12AT7 that he stuck in there. I do know that I've got some nice SED Winged C 6L6s in there and they are a nice improvement over the stock Grove Tubes (the pre amp tubes were stock so maybe this 12AT7 will actually be an improvement over them).

[colinesquire]

I had an original BD way back in the mid 90s as my first 'real' amp. Had some problems with the channels switching but really liked the sound. Wish I'd hung on to it. Not impressed with the HRD at all though. Too harsh & hard sounding.

[CharlyG]

Anybody else done the Fromel mod for the BD? I have the chassis out and am ready to start but some folks say if I ever want to sell it, not to do the mod? It improves the sound, changes the input jacks and master vol...

What do you folks think?

[Martin82]

Hot rod clean tones are pretty meh.

Not true at all.

[revelator62]

Sounds like you already made the decision to go ahead... Reviews for this mod from other people seem very favorable. I don't think you can go wrong.

somewhere I've also read of solder inconsistency at the base of the tube sockets ???.... if memory serves me right. Might want to perform an overall visual check on solder joints on the board while you're at it.

Please post feedback impression after you get it running.

good luck

Anybody else done the Fromel mod for the BD? I have the chassis out and am ready to start but some folks say if I ever want to sell it, not to do the mod? It improves the sound, changes the input jacks and master vol...

What do you folks think?

[scolfax]

Hot rod clean tones are pretty meh.

Not true at all.

Totally not true! I love the HRD cleans. The dirt sucks but the cleans are so good it takes pedals great.

[ndemattheis]

I just picked up a HRD III and I am pretty impressed with it. I think the clean channel sounds very good (Fendery) and the Drive channel is a little thin on the bass but sounds tremendous with a tubescreamer type pedal. The More Drive sounds a little harsh and I prefer the sound of a pedal, but it is definitely useable and I expect will improve with breaking in. I am debating whether I should bring back to GC and try out the BDRI because I am still within the 30 days. I really can't get a feel for the amp in the store, but it is a pain to keep returning the amps. What are the opinions on the drive channel on the BDRI compared to the HRD III?

[picknpluck]

The drive channel on the Blues Deluxe has significantly less gain on tap when compared to the Hot Rod Deluxe. I think the drive channel on the Blues Deluxe is usable, but others will disagree. Here's the problem: There's only one EQ for both channels. For some reason, when you switch to the drive channel, you lose the bottom end--meaning it gets kind of thin. Now, if you're just going to use the one channel, dial in your EQ to taste on that channel and you'll be set. But if you set your EQ to make the drive channel sound good, you'll probably think that your clean channel will get too muddy. As a single channel amp, the Blues Deluxe sounds wonderful. If you're ok with the EQ shift between channels, then so be it. I personally keep my blues deluxe on the clean channel and use a Fulltone OCD as my "drive channel." I boost for solos with a TS9 and this setup works well for me in a live setting.

[ndemattheis]

I have the same problem with the HRD III. The clean channel seems a lot bassier than the drive channel so when you switch to the drive channel it sounds thin.

[bluesky636]

The drive channel on the Blues Deluxe has significantly less gain on tap when compared to the Hot Rod Deluxe. I think the drive channel on the Blues Deluxe is usable, but others will disagree. Here's the problem: There's only one EQ for both channels. For some reason, when you switch to the drive channel, you lose the bottom end--meaning it gets kind of thin. Now, if you're just going to use the one channel, dial in your EQ to taste on that channel and you'll be set. But if you set your EQ to make the drive channel sound good, you'll probably think that your clean channel will get too muddy. As a single channel amp, the Blues Deluxe sounds wonderful. If you're ok with the EQ shift between channels, then so be it. I personally keep my blues deluxe on the clean channel and use a Fulltone OCD as my "drive channel." I boost for solos with a TS9 and this setup works well for me in a live setting.

That is all by design. As has been stated on numerous occasions in other forums and by Fender, the Blues Deluxe/Devilles were designed as a pseudo 59 Bassman. If you look at the schematic, you will see that the tone stacks are identical between the Blues series and the Bassman (except the Blues series are not cathode followers). You will also see in the schematic that the bass is deliberately rolled off somewhat in the Blues drive channel. The intent there is to further emulate the sound of a cranked 59 Bassman where it is recommended that the bass be rolled off as the volume is increased.

I have installed a Philips JAN 5751 in V1 of my BDRI along with a JJ 12AT7 in V3 to cut the overall gain. V2 is a JJ 12AX7, V4/5 are JJ 6L6GCs biased at 38 mA cathode current (about 36 mA plate current) at a plate voltage of 413 VDC. This effectively makes the drive channel into a second clean channel. I use a Full Drive 2 MOSFET for my dirt.

http://www.blueguitar.org/new/schem/fender/blues_deluxe-deville_reissue.pdf