MLB Realignment

[Bankston]

These media stories about MLB wanting to move the Astros to the American League have got my blood boiling. What a frakking stupid idea.

Houston is an NL city and always has been, even dating back to the days when it was the AAA affiliate of the Cardinals. Sure, the Astros suck right now, and probably deserve to be sent to the Texas League, but there's over 50 years of tradition in the NL that should not be just thrown out the window.

And the reasoning for it, to develop a rivalry with the Rangers, is even more idiotic. The Astros and Rangers have been playing each other in inter-league play for years now and no legit rivalry has developed.

MLB created this situation by moving Milwaukee to the NL in 1998 because they didn't want to have an odd number of teams in each league. The Brewers won an AL Pennant in '82. Milwaukee has been both an AL and NL city. There is no tradition to screw around with because a precedent has been set there. Move the Brew Crew to the AL Central and send Kansas City back to the AL West.

And if you want to take advantage of the geographic rivalries, doesn't it make more sense to have Milwaukee compete against 4 teams, Minnesota, Detroit, Cleveland and the Chi Sox, in its geographic region?

[thornie]

It's just not fair that NL Central has so many teams (most of them terrible) and the AL West has only 4. It's not good for parody in baseball, period. Realignment is badly needed.

EDIT: I agree with you that Milwaukee should be moved instead of Houston, but I can't see MLB doing that again. The AL West NEEDS another team. It makes the most sense to take Houston.

[Bankston]

I don't have a problem with realignment but if any team should switch leagues, it should be the Brewers for the reasons I mentioned.

It makes no sense to have Texas, the second largest state in the Union, only have American League baseball, whereas California, NY and Florida have teams in both leagues.

I suspect that this talk is the result of the change in ownership in Houston. MLB has not approved the sale to the new owner and I bet they are trying to strong-arm Jim Crane, the prospective new owner of the Astros, into agreeing to this.

[ACfixer]

It's just not fair that NL Central has so many teams (most of them terrible) and the AL West has only 4. It's not good for parody in baseball, period. Realignment is badly needed.

Not good for the parity either.... ;)

I'm a bit of a traditionalist, as far as I'm concerned you can go back to two leagues and no divisions. You win the pennant and play for the Series. Short of that I'd rather see just east/west division for each league. Wild cards are cop outs and it rewards teams for not finishing first.

[Tbone135]

The Brewers have zero history and little rivalry in the NL Central, they should quickly be moved if needed. Selig wouldn't do that to a team he has so much interest in, though.

[geoangus]

I don't understand a playoff system with 5 teams making it in. Would the team with the best record have a two series bye? First round #1 gets a bye, 2 plays 5, 3 vs 4. Second round winners of those brackets play and then that winner goes against #1? The number one seed could go three weeks before playing a game. Doesn't seem to make much sense.

And as far as realigning teams - what are they thinking? If they dilute these schedules anymore, the real rivalries (Red Sox v Yankees, Cubs v Cardinals, etc) will only play each other a dozen times a year. Sorry, that just won't cut it.

[thornie]

Not good for the parity either.... ;)

I'm a bit of a traditionalist, as far as I'm concerned you can go back to two leagues and no divisions. You win the pennant and play for the Series. Short of that I'd rather see just east/west division for each league. Wild cards are cop outs and it rewards teams for not finishing first.

I'm not a fan of the Wildcard either... but I remember the old days when my team would be completely out of it by early August and teams would just "play out" the rest of the season. That's not good either.

I've always been a fan of WC teams getting a one game playoff against a second WC team. Then the winner plays only 1 home game the first round, and two every other round. MLB would never do this because of lost revenues, but I think it would work.

[thornie]

I don't understand a playoff system with 5 teams making it in. Would the team with the best record have a two series bye? First round #1 gets a bye, 2 plays 5, 3 vs 4. Second round winners of those brackets play and then that winner goes against #1? The number one seed could go three weeks before playing a game. Doesn't seem to make much sense.

And as far as realigning teams - what are they thinking? If they dilute these schedules anymore, the real rivalries (Red Sox v Yankees, Cubs v Cardinals, etc) will only play each other a dozen times a year. Sorry, that just won't cut it.

If you get rid of the god awful inter-league play, we won't have that problem with rivalries anymore.

[stevieboy]

Honestly, I can't see a lot of your points, other than you don't like the idea--and I don't discredit the fact that you don't, and want to keep the Astros where they've always been.

But if they do realign, someone is going to have to change leagues. It seems that you're just trying to dump it on Milwaukee. They've already had one team move out, and another get switched. How is it more fair to make them change again? Because they've been screwed already and they should be used to it? (This is assuming that it in fact represents "getting screwed.") Many there welcomed a return to the NL for the same sake of tradition that you feel entitled to use as an argument.

I also don't think any of the states you mention care if they have teams in both leagues. They do care in the LA area, the SF Bay Area, and NYC and other big metropolises that have two teams, but that's not the same thing. Houston is four hours away from DFW. Pennsylvania doesn't seem to mind that it has two NL teams.

If Houston draws what you consider to be the short straw in this, I do sympathize, but I just don't see any real reason why they are special or should be exempt from consideration.

[twinrider1]

I'd like to see contraction. Let's start with the Florida Marlins...perpetually in the bottom 3 of home attendance.

[ACfixer]

If you get rid of the god awful inter-league play, we won't have that problem with rivalries anymore.

+1 Interleague play blows. With the exception of the all star game, the AL players should never lay eyes on an NL player until the series. I loved it when it was that way, man you had to come up against hitters and pitchers you hadn't seen all year that were ready to clean your clock.

I understand the point about the WC and teams being out of it in August... but you know baseball has been around a long time before wildcards and they did just fine. It's the revenue thing and the player's salaries, so I understand why they did it from a financial angle too.

[VicAjax]

Bud Selig - another douchebag in charge of an entire sport.

:facepalm

[Bankston]

Honestly, I can't see a lot of your points, other than you don't like the idea--and I don't discredit the fact that you don't, and want to keep the Astros where they've always been.

But if they do realign, someone is going to have to change leagues. It seems that you're just trying to dump it on Milwaukee. They've already had one team move out, and another get switched. How is it more fair to make them change again? Because they've been screwed already and they should be used to it? (This is assuming that it in fact represents "getting screwed.") Many there welcomed a return to the NL for the same sake of tradition that you feel entitled to use as an argument.

I also don't think any of the states you mention care if they have teams in both leagues. They do care in the LA area, the SF Bay Area, and NYC and other big metropolises that have two teams, but that's not the same thing. Houston is four hours away from DFW. Pennsylvania doesn't seem to mind that it has two NL teams.

If Houston draws what you consider to be the short straw in this, I do sympathize, but I just don't see any real reason why they are special or should be exempt from consideration.

I don't see how it would be screwing the Brewers to send them back to the AL. To my way of thinking, that's just correcting a huge mistake MLB made by making them switch to begin with. As I said, Milwaukee as a baseball city has a tradition in both leagues. I'm not old enough to remember the Milwaukee Braves but I do remember that Robin Yount and Rollie Fingers were AL MVPs.

Having Milwaukee, Detroit, Cleveland, Minnesota and the White Sox in the same division makes more sense than having Houston, Texas, Anaheim, Oakland and Seattle in the same division. It would be like the baseball version of the NFL's black and blue division.

[Peteyvee]

Not good for the parity either.... ;)



Well, in a sort of perverse parody, how about if they keep the Astros in the NL as long as long as they take the McCourts as their new owners? Or would they still be a travesty there, as they are here? :D

[stevieboy]

I don't care for interleague either.

I think the playoffs as they are now is the right amount of teams, I wouldn't want to see fewer, or more. When there weren't wildcards, there were fewer teams too. The wildcard spots are still pretty competitive, it gives more fans a chance to see their teams in the playoffs. And baseball in September would be pretty uninteresting a lot of the time. Baseball can't afford a whole month of exhibition games league wide.

I don't see how it would be screwing the Brewers to send them back to the AL. To my way of thinking, that's just correcting a huge mistake MLB made by making them switch to begin with. As I said, Milwaukee as a baseball city has a tradition in both leagues. I'm not old enough to remember the Milwaukee Braves but I do remember that Robin Yount and Rollie Fingers were AL MVPs.

Having Milwaukee, Detroit, Cleveland, Minnesota and the White Sox in the same division makes more sense than having Houston, Texas, Anaheim, Oakland and Seattle in the same division. It would be like the baseball version of the NFL's black and blue division.

I think that's all fair enough, from YOUR point of view, and again, I don't discount your feelings. Maybe people in Milwaukee don't see it that way. They've had to change already, twice if you consider the Braves moving. maybe it's another city's turn to take one for the league? The fact that you say you can't remember the Milwaukee Braves just illustrates my point, that it's all from your point of view. You cite 50 years of Astros tradition, then dismiss the tradition in another city because you don't remember it.

[Tbone135]

I was annoyed when he shoved the Brewers in my NL Central so soon after becoming Commissioner and selling the Brewers, and I'm annoyed by this. The Astros are just fine where they are, go after a team that could use a change of scenery.

[halorealm7]

The way I understand this, it will be 15 & 15. There will only be AL & NL and no East, Central, West & etc. The top 5 teams from each league makes the playoffs.

[Bankston]

I don't care for interleague either.

I think the playoffs as they are now is the right amount of teams, I wouldn't want to see fewer, or more. When there weren't wildcards, there were fewer teams too. The wildcard spots are still pretty competitive, it gives more fans a chance to see their teams in the playoffs. And baseball in September would be pretty uninteresting a lot of the time. Baseball can't afford a whole month of exhibition games league wide.



I think that's all fair enough, from YOUR point of view, and again, I don't discount your feelings. Maybe people in Milwaukee don't see it that way. They've had to change already, twice if you consider the Braves moving. maybe it's another city's turn to take one for the league? The fact that you say you can't remember the Milwaukee Braves just illustrates my point, that it's all from your point of view. You cite 50 years of Astros tradition, then dismiss the tradition in another city because you don't remember it.

Well, of course, it's from my point of view. I'm not dismissing the tradition of the Braves in Milwaukee; trust me, Houston knows what it's like to lose a sports team. I'm merely pointing out that Milwaukee has been both an AL and NL city and you are completely discounting the fact that the Brewers were an AL team for 28 years. I really liked the '82 team with Cooper, Yount, Thomas, Rollie and pulled for them against the Cardinals.

I can see how you would feel jerked around if there were another switch, though, but I still think it makes the most sense unless MLB really wants to shake things up and move the Mets to the AL and the Pirates to the NL East. They could bump the Blue Jays to the Central and the Royals to the West.

[TBoneDeluxe]

How would they handle 15 teams in each league? One team would have to be off everyday, unless interleague play is all year long.

[ACfixer]

How would they handle 15 teams in each league? One team would have to be off everyday, unless interleague play is all year long.

Interesting question, nobody gets weekends off in baseball for the most part. Seems like a nightmare for schedule makers.

[Blues Power]

anyone remember when the braves were a WC team.

if were moving teams around why not just bring the Dodgers back to Brooklyn, theyre up for sale anyways.......

but seroulsy if theyre short a team theyd be better off just starting a new one in the AL. im sure theres a city out there who would be intersted.

[wolf9309]

How would they handle 15 teams in each league? One team would have to be off everyday, unless interleague play is all year long.

I think that's the idea- rather than a month where everyone is playing interleague, there would always be one, sometime 2 interleague series' going on.

[pickaguitar]

And the reasoning for it, to develop a rivalry with the Rangers
imo I think that is a good idea

[wolf9309]

anyone remember when the braves were a WC team.

if were moving teams around why not just bring the Dodgers back to Brooklyn, theyre up for sale anyways.......

but seroulsy if theyre short a team theyd be better off just starting a new one in the AL. im sure theres a city out there who would be intersted.

they'd need to add 2 teams as the leagues are 14 and 16 teams. I think it's hard to find two markets that can actually support a major league team which aren't too close to significantly interfere with the fanbase of another team.

Also, if it was 16 teams per league, they'd need to definitely get rid of divisions or they'd still have uneven numbers, and really, wiping out divisions creates travel and time zone hell for a lot of teams.

[ford]

Houston doesn't need a rivalry with the Rangers.... when the team is even decent.. Houston draws around 3 million... without a rivalry with the Rangers...

We have one with the Reds, Cardinals and Cubs that has been going on for quite a while.... believe me... we HATE the Cubs... grudgingly respect the Cardinals... and have been mostly indifferent to the Reds...the Pirates, sadly just are there.....


I've grown up watching NL style baseball.. the pitcher is on the field and a BASEBALL player.. he should have to hit.. period... instead we just created a position for players who can't do anything else.. at least many of them.. as the DH.....hate it, hate it hate it... and I don't want to have to watch my team use one every day.. after over 50 years...since we started... as an NL team.... Houston deserves better...

Screw you Selig... you are an idiot... go away .... the sooner the better freaking loser.

[halorealm7]

How would they handle 15 teams in each league? One team would have to be off everyday, unless interleague play is all year long.


Sounds like a lot more interleague play and a potential for some teams to get the royal shaft in scheduling. Of course, that means some are going to have easy trips as well. We're probably 10-15 years away from seeing it anyway....if tradition holds.

[wolf9309]

Sounds like a lot more interleague play and a potential for some teams to get the royal shaft in scheduling. Of course, that means some are going to have easy trips as well. We're probably 10-15 years away from seeing it anyway....if tradition holds.

actually, if there was always one interleague series going on, each team would be playing 12 interleague games rather than the 18 there are now.

[playsarobin]

Ford summed my thoughts succinctly.

At 27, almost 28, I grew up with season tickets and have been to hundreds of 'stros games. Houston is an NL city and we're loyal to our team regardless (why I personally feel they're strong-arming the switch at the same time they control the outcome of the sale).

We have our rivalries and couldn't care less about the rangers. Regardless what Selig thinks, this home grown houstonian disagrees completely.

To answer the 14-16 question, I don't have a better option, but I'm sure someone does.

[KCWM]

Firstly:

Parody - a humorous or satirical imitation of a serious piece of literature or writing: his hilarious parody of Hamlet's soliloquy

Parity - equality, as in amount, status, or character.

Secondly:

Screw you Selig... you are an idiot... go away .... the sooner the better freaking loser

I have nothing personal against you, Ford, so I apologize for using your post to make my point, but I've never quite understood people making direct a statement to someone when it's against meteoric odds that they will ever read that statement. I see it on a lot of forums and haven't been able to wrap my head around it.

Thirdly:

I think that the good rivalries are made when teams annually play each other a significant amount of the season or in significant games. The Cowboys' rivalries with the Eagles and Redskins is a good example of this, especially when the season was only 14 games. I'm all for baseball doing what it can to promote rivalries, even if it's more of a matter of artificially manufacturing them. Ten or twenty years down the road, it's unlikely that most fans will care how or why the rivalry started, only that it exists.

Again, apologies to you, Ford.

[Bankston]

imo I think that is a good idea

There's never really been a decent rivalry between any of Houston and Dallas' teams.

Rockets v. Mavericks? They're in the same division but I've never sensed a strong mutual dislike. A lot of Rockets fans I know were pulling for the Mavs in the Finals.

Cowboys v. Texans? They only play each other once every 6 years in a game that counts.

Astros v. Rangers? They play inter-league series every year. Again, no strong mutual dislike.

[VicAjax]

I have nothing personal against you, Ford, so I apologize for using your post to make my point, but I've never quite understood people making direct a statement to someone when it's against meteoric odds that they will ever read that statement. I see it on a lot of forums and haven't been able to wrap my head around it.

i don't really think statements like these are made in the hopes that the target will read them. i think they're simply a form of venting written in the declarative.

obviously, i personally wouldn't call Bud a douchebag to his face, but rather argue passionately and (i would hope) somewhat diplomatically that he retire and take up something less high-profile, such as philately.

Bud's really made a lot of egregious errors in his tenure running what was once the country's most cherished sport. i could enumerate them, but i think most of the people reading this thread are probably aware of what they are.

so, personally, i think it's forgivable that Ford and others (including myself) vent in more or less juvenile tones.

[John C]

The way I understand this, it will be 15 & 15. There will only be AL & NL and no East, Central, West & etc. The top 5 teams from each league makes the playoffs.

I've read that there are two proposals- one is that there would be only the two leagues; the other was that they were going to keep the 3 divisions in each league but balance them again so every division had 5 teams.

I don't understand a playoff system with 5 teams making it in. Would the team with the best record have a two series bye? First round #1 gets a bye, 2 plays 5, 3 vs 4. Second round winners of those brackets play and then that winner goes against #1? The number one seed could go three weeks before playing a game. Doesn't seem to make much sense.


I've read that if they maintain the 3 divisions in each league that the 5 teams would be the 3 division winners and there would be 2 wild cards. The two wild cards would play either a 1-game "playoff" or a brief 3-game series with the winner moving on to play the division winner with the best record. Therefore the 3 winners would have about extra days off that they don't have at the moment.

Now if it does become 2 15-team leagues I have no idea what they are going to do.

Now has to who gets moved count me among those who say send the Brewers back to the AL, not the Astros.

[KCWM]

i don't really think statements like these are made in the hopes that the target will read them. i think they're simply a form of venting written in the declarative.

obviously, i personally wouldn't call Bud a douchebag to his face, but rather argue passionately and (i would hope) somewhat diplomatically that he retire and take up something less high-profile, such as philately.

Bud's really made a lot of egregious errors in his tenure running what was once the country's most cherished sport. i could enumerate them, but i think most of the people reading this thread are probably aware of what they are.

so, personally, i think it's forgivable that Ford and others (including myself) vent in more or less juvenile tones.

Like I said, I can't wrap my head around it. It seems like the most logical way to phrase it is something like, "Screw Selig... he's an idiot that won't go away...the sooner the better...what a freaking loser". It's still declarative, but comes across in a much different way.

It was just a fresh example that I was able to point out.

[QRSS]

miami and pittsburgh...POOF! problem solved.

[stevieboy]

First this

SIIEkxyCWCs

Now this

6locBvdMJtw

Go directly to the American League. Do not pass go, do not collect $200!

[Tbone135]

miami and pittsburgh...POOF! problem solved.

Yes!

[FirstBassman]

Believe it or not, this is a very complicated topic with no perfect answer.

Take parity for example.

The Orio’s complain that it is unfair they have to compete in the same division as the Boston Red Sox.

So, if you remove geographic-based divisions and try to maintain a balanced schedule, the Mariners will complain that it is unfair for them to have to travel much further for away games than other teams.

In inter-league play, the Mets could complain that they always have to play against the Yankees.

Well, if you remove inter-league play, you’re back to the situation where natural rivals never get to play each other (except in a World Series) and half the country will never get to see the great players in the other league. (Though with modern mass communications this is a lot less of an issue than it was in the 1930s and 40s and 50s.)

Some teams complain that sometimes “weaker” teams win a division and get into the playoffs. Therefore there should just be one big 15-team league.

But then, you will lose the excitement of all the divisional races.

As I said, there is no easy perfect answer.

[stevieboy]

This all does make you wonder if in fact there really is no crying in baseball.