I want the amazing warm cleans of a Hiwatt Custom 50 at a lower wattage

[rogerramjett]

I love the clean and warm tone of the Hiwatt Custom 50 but I need it in a lower wattage - think 20 watts or less.

Does the Custom 20 still have those great cleans or is there a better built clone for the money?

Please, please, please don't let this thread devolve into bitching about how "They're just not made like they used to be..." :horse I know and I agree. But what's my best available solution, right now?

Hit me with some mad knowledge!

[Endr_rpm]

Serious question- a 20 watt amp will not really be any quieter than a 50 watter through the same speakers, and since you want the clean sound, I would assume the extra headroom 50watts offers would be a good thing, so why go with the smaller amp? Changes in design and the power tubes them selves (lower wattage will most likely have EL84s in them) are not likely to have the same sound.

The Custom 20, IIRC, is a Marshall clone, not a smaller Hiwatt.

[Bamboo]

Reeves Custom 50 with Power Scaling.

http://www.reevesamps.com/custom50ps.htm

[Joe L]

Silverface Princeton Reverb or PRRI

[rogerramjett]

Endr_rpm - great, great points. Thanks for some stuff I hasn't thought about and didn't know.

I'm checking out the REeves now - looks killer!

Wouldn't the Fenders have a totally different sound, due to the 6V6's?

[FFTT]

It's going to be tough getting the depth of tone of the 2XEL34 Hiwatt circuit
in a lower powered amp, which will be most likely 2XEL84s

The Reeves Custom 50 PS is the way to go.

The stock tubes are fine, but consider upgrading to NOS Mullards
as budget permits.

For versatility, I'd go for the separate head version.

[Randy]

You might want to consider a Matchless Chieftain.

[kwaping]

If you have lots of money, I think a Carr Mercury would work well.

[solitaire]

I would always suggest cutting power in half and the number of speakers in half. This would theoretically cut the volume in half, though our ears perceive a -10dB drop as half the volume. If using EL84s instead of EL34s I's suggest using stamped frame Fanes instead, as these have more lows and less highs - would get you closer to big bottle Hiwatt tone.

[paulg]

If you have a Hiwatt 50, how about setting it up with JJ 6v6's? Just an idea.

[BlackBart]

You might want to consider a Matchless Chieftain.


+100

[Endr_rpm]

If you have a Hiwatt 50, how about setting it up with JJ 6v6's? Just an idea.


CAn you swap 6v6s for an EL34? I thought it was just 6l6s?

[fiveightandten]

CAn you swap 6v6s for an EL34? I thought it was just 6l6s?
The pin out is the same. However, i'm not sure I would subject a pair of 6V6's to the plate and screen voltages in a vintage Hiwatt. Also, the impedance of 2 6V6's is quit a bit off from that of 2 EL34's. Those output transformers are not deigned to run 6V6's.

[Zounds Perspex]

Here's another vote for the Reeves Custom 50 with power scaling.

Another option to explore is the DST Marwatt combo.
http://www.dst-engineering.com/MarWatt.html
Based on an 18-watt Marshall, one channel has that classic Marshall 18-watt thing,
the other is supposed to have the front end much like an old Hiwatt.
maybe someone with more experience with one could chime in.

[rogerramjett]

Thanks for the help, mates! A Reeves Custom 50 PS seems like the ticket.

I love the idea of a Matchless Chieftan but 40 watts - 40 Matchless watts - is still way too much for my situation.

My current "herd" is a Matchless SC-30, Bad Cat Cub 15R and a Reinhardt 18 - I love the EL84 tone and generally use my amps as a clean base for pedals. I'm getting interested in the Hiwatt sound because it's seems a little less "jangly" than EL84's and a little more balanced than the generally-bright Fender tone.

Great, great pointers. Thanks for the knowledge!

[Truxton Spangler]

I don't understand. If you're only after the warm cleans of a Hiwatt Custom 50 then why do you need lower wattage?

The only reason to power scale that amp is to reach crunchy distortion at lower volume levels. You will be able to dial in warm cleans at any volume level on a non-power scaled Hiwatt Custom 50

There is little to no difference in clean tone on Hiwatts until you reach about 12'o'clock on the Custom 50 where head room starts to diminish

Just set the regular master volume of the Custom 50 low and you'll get the same warm clean tone as on any other volume. No need to power scale for that.

Best regards -T

[solitaire]

The pin out is the same. However, i'm not sure I would subject a pair of 6V6's to the plate and screen voltages in a vintage Hiwatt. Also, the impedance of 2 6V6's is quit a bit off from that of 2 EL34's. Those output transformers are not deigned to run 6V6's.
I hear some vendors sell JJ 6V6s at a special grade so they will bias up in an amp designed for medium output bottles. I believe the 6V6 does have an 8k output impedance so it would match right up in a typical EL34 amp.

[diagrammatiks]

i don't understand the reason here.

A 50 watt hiwatt has the cleans it does because of the output transformer necessary to run 2 el34s.

a lower wattage amp isn't going to sound the same period.

if you're only looking for cleans..why does it matter how many watts the amp is?

[rogerramjett]

Truxton Spangler - wouldn't the clean tone at 12 'o clock be a lot more dynamic than the clean tone at 9 'o clock? If you're pushing the tubes more, isn't that going to "open up" the tone more? I'm real interested in your point...

diagrammatiks - Your point is why the Reeves Custom 50 with power scaling seems perfect! The wattage matters because I'm playing in a situation where I can't have screaming volume and even if I'm just using it for cleans, a 50-watt amp is still screaming!

[Truxton Spangler]

Truxton Spangler - wouldn't the clean tone at 12 'o clock be a lot more dynamic than the clean tone at 9 'o clock? If you're pushing the tubes more, isn't that going to "open up" the tone more? I'm real interested in your point...

Actually no, the clean tone sounds the same from the lowest master vol setting to about 9'o'clock. It's not more dynamic at higher volumes, it just starts losing headroom, gets a bit light crunchy distortion

Active tonestack amps like the Hiwatt behave a little differently in this regard than the passive tonestack amps like Marshalls

Don't worry that running the master vol low will somehow make your tone worse.. it won't, and i've used mine for bedroom level alot. I have a faustine phantom for comparison when i want to crank it. Just remember that a good portion of the warm clean tone is complemented by hiwatt fane-speakers so make sure to use those

Hope this helps

Best regards -T

[Laced Senses]

I love the clean and warm tone of the Hiwatt Custom 50 but I need it in a lower wattage - think 20 watts or less.

Does the Custom 20 still have those great cleans or is there a better built clone for the money?

Lowering the wattage will reduce clean headroom. If you wanted crunch at lower volume, then fewer watts would make sense. For quieter cleans, just turn down the master volume or use an attenuator. I also like the suggestion for a Reeves 50 with power scaling. Matchless combos are great, but are a different beast.

Personally, I like the fire breathing distortion of a dimed vintage Hiwatt. Playing one at bedroom levels is like driving a Ferrari at 10 mph.

The best solution is to rent or buy studio space to unleash the power....

I shake the foundation at my studio almost every day. Time stands still and all seems right with the world. Highly recommended.

http://i347.photobucket.com/albums/p480/PeacefulMusician/Hiwattstacks-1.jpg


Actually no, the clean tone sounds the same from the lowest master vol setting to about 9'o'clock. It's not more dynamic at higher volumes, it just starts losing headroom, gets a bit light crunchy distortion

???

The tone is fuller sounding with the master volume turned up at least to my ears. Hiwatts are more dynamic when crunchy distortion levels are reached.

If the pre-amp volume knobs are turned low, then a Hiwatt amp will be but nothing but clean even with the master volume maxed...assuming no boost or dirt pedals are pushing the pre-amp. Some guitars with no output single coil pickups will be clean with everything dimed


Active tonestack amps like the Hiwatt behave a little differently in this regard than the passive tonestack amps like Marshalls

What Hiwatt amp has an active preamp circuit? I have never seen one.


Don't worry that running the master vol low will somehow make your tone worse.. it won't
The tone sound smaller - for lack of a better term - at lower volume. Worse? That's up to interpretation.

[empty71]

http://www.trinityamps.com/Product_Triwatt.htm

Get this and thank me later ;)

[Zounds Perspex]

http://www.trinityamps.com/Product_Triwatt.htm

Get this and thank me later ;)

wow, wish I could A-B this and the Marwatt.

[FFTT]

I only have my Reeves 225 to go by, but the master is quite effective in
controlling overall volume even with the pre gains dimed and jumpered.

I have a lot of respect for these amps and I like the fact that they are
built here in the U.S. to Hiwatt mil spec.

Of course if you have access to NOS Mullards and a good selection of speakers
and cabs to try, go for it.

4X12 is cool 8X10 is fantastic!

[Truxton Spangler]

???
The tone is fuller sounding with the master volume turned up at least to my ears.

That's mostly due to the speakers.. Fane's sound best when pushed alittle


Hiwatts are more dynamic when crunchy distortion levels are reached. Yes but he doesn't want crunchy distortion.. I said with vol from 0-9 as most of the crunch and diminishing headroom starts after 9'o'clock closer to noon depending on how high output your pups are or how much you're boosting the signal


If the pre-amp volume knobs are turned low, then a Hiwatt amp will be but nothing but clean even with the master volume maxed
Indeed. But when you lower the input gain you get less touch sensitivity anyways so it won't give you cleans with more touch sensitivity


What Hiwatt amp has an active preamp circuit? I have never seen one. Actually, i seem to be wrong about that. I remember the tonestack being significantly different than the typical Baxandall.. I may be confusing the tonestack with a Sound City amp, but in any regards it behaves very differently to typical Marshall baxandalls

Best regards -T

[rogerramjett]

Good discussion!

My desire for lower wattage was a desire for lower volume.

Consensus seems to be that can be achieved with a 50-watter by using the master volume - right?

The Tri-Watt looks awesome! I'm a bit thrown off by it not using the EL34's, as some guys have said that using 6V6's (or anything else) won't get you the same tone.

[FFTT]

Comparing my Reeves 225 with 4XKT88's to my Hot Cat 100R
with 4XEL34's, I'd have to say the KT88's deliver the richest and warmest
clean, where 4XEL34's have a bit more hair even at the cleanest low gain settings.

BGp3qNccL9k

I'd still put my good money into the pre section first, since cheap 12AX7's
can sound right fizzy compared the better NOS tubs.

[Truxton Spangler]

Consensus seems to be that can be achieved with a 50-watter by using the master volume - right?

Right. The clean tone of a Hiwatt custom 50 is lovely even with the master vol at bedroom level

Best regards -T

[FFTT]

The power scaling is really best for people with very severe volume restrictions
who get complaints for even low powered amps.

Power scaling will not deliver what I consider recording quality Hiwatt tones,
since you're not even working the speaker, but it does allow you to at least
practice or work on comps at the wee hours, so in that it can be helpful.

[rogerramjett]

Thanks for all the info! Next round of questions:

- Anybody have any info on a Matchless Chieftain versus a Hiwatt Custom 50?

- What should I pay for a Reeves Custom 50 (no power scaling)?

- Power scaling versus an attenuator?

- If I want to use a 1x12 cab with a Custom 50 (I know 2 speakers are the traditional set up), what speaker should I get (the Reeves dude won't sell a Purple Vintage separately)?

[Tripower455]

Sorry to resurrect and old thread... I have a Marwatt, Triwatt, 2 hole (real Hiwatt) DR504, 4 hole DR504 (homebuilt) and a homebuilt Jimmy Page 50 watt.

If you want the big cleans, get the 50 watter. The smaller ones definitely start getting crunchy at "band" volume levels.

[rogerramjett]

Thanks for all the advice! Last night, I won a 1979 Hiwatt Custom 50 on eBay. Let's do this!

[Starsailor]

Awesome, congrats! I think you'll be pleasantly surprised how good a Custom 50's cleans sound at lower volume. Sure, it sounds better louder but it's still nice at 9:00 on the MV.