Fading a Guitar's Finish

[Pointbreakd]

So i have G&L Legacy and I love it but I hate the bright green finish. Before I decide to re-finish it, I'm going to try and relic it.

So far I have gone over the body with Micro-mesh (sandpaper) and it worked well, the color is not as shiny, its more dull and aged.

Now I want to fade the actual color if this is possible. Is there anything that will fade it? (other than playing it a lot, time, etc etc )

[John Phillips]

Leave it outside in the sun for a week or two.

If that doesn't do it, it's probably fade-proof.

Here's one that wasn't ;).

http://www.theangelconversations.com/pics/PurpleFade.jpg

[Pointbreakd]

Is sun bad for the wood, because of the heat?


Any other quick fixes?

[John Phillips]

You could try a tanning bed :).

I don't know if the heat would be all that bad a thing - it would help simulate the years of temperature cycling that cause checking etc and make a guitar look old. I'd maybe be inclined to take the neck off with a bolt-on though.

A funny thought struck me, which is that I dislike the concept of 'relicing' a guitar by deliberately damaging it, or even faking wear using tools (including sandpaper), but for some reason I have no problem with aging a finish using sunlight or even artificial UV - or deliberate temperature extremes. I suppose it's the difference between creating 'wear' as opposed to 'age'.

:)

[cvansickle]

Originally posted by John Phillips
You could try a tanning bed :).

I don't know if the heat would be all that bad a thing - it would help simulate the years of temperature cycling that cause checking etc and make a guitar look old. I'd maybe be inclined to take the neck off with a bolt-on though.

A funny thought struck me, which is that I dislike the concept of 'relicing' a guitar by deliberately damaging it, or even faking wear using tools (including sandpaper), but for some reason I have no problem with aging a finish using sunlight or even artificial UV - or deliberate temperature extremes. I suppose it's the difference between creating 'wear' as opposed to 'age'.

:) Ultra-violet light is non-invasive. It's like laser surgery instead of an ectomy.

[Pointbreakd]

Ya but where do I get UV light?

[tiptone]

Outside.

[Pointbreakd]

Originally posted by tiptone
Outside.

ha. ok fine. I meant like from a bulb. I'm worried that outside will cause heat and condensationa and ruin the wood.

Anyway I talked to the guy from Relicguitars.com and I guess my G&L legacy is probably a Poly finish. So it's not going to fade.

[John Phillips]

Originally posted by Pointbreakd
Anyway I talked to the guy from Relicguitars.com and I guess my G&L legacy is probably a Poly finish. So it's not going to fade.
That PRS is a poly finish. It depends on the stability of the chemical dyes in the finish, not the material itself.

You can get UV light from a tanning bed, like I said. You may have to hang around with a bunch of women in bikinis while getting your guitar tanned of course. The only problem is that they'll think you're weird :).

[tiptone]

Sorry, natural-born-smart ass. :)

I've seen HID lights (metal halide, high pressure sodium, mercury vapor) do relic-type things to plastics. Gives them a really nice coloration, metal halide gave a mint greenish tint and high pressure sodium a more tea or coffee color.

I'm not sure if they would do the same for paint, but HPS and MH lights can be had cheap at Home Depot/Lowes if you wanna give it a try.

[paintguy]

UV light is the best source for fading a see-through color. It doesn't matter what type of finish it is, it still will fade. I Don't recommend putting your guitar in the sun as it can cause a whole of other damage with necks, fingerboards, etc...

Uv lights used in curing automotive paints are a small fortune. They start at about $1500.00 for a lamp that does about a foot of area.

Your best bet might be to get a refinish job(if you can afford) or just wait 20-25 years.(ha ha)

Larry

[Pointbreakd]

Originally posted by tiptone
Sorry, natural-born-smart ass. :)

I've seen HID lights (metal halide, high pressure sodium, mercury vapor) do relic-type things to plastics. Gives them a really nice coloration, metal halide gave a mint greenish tint and high pressure sodium a more tea or coffee color.

I'm not sure if they would do the same for paint, but HPS and MH lights can be had cheap at Home Depot/Lowes if you wanna give it a try.


Hmm interesting...Maybe I'll give that a try...

[Pointbreakd]

Originally posted by paintguy
UV light is the best source for fading a see-through color. It doesn't matter what type of finish it is, it still will fade. I Don't recommend putting your guitar in the sun as it can cause a whole of other damage with necks, fingerboards, etc...

Uv lights used in curing automotive paints are a small fortune. They start at about $1500.00 for a lamp that does about a foot of area.

Your best bet might be to get a refinish job(if you can afford) or just wait 20-25 years.(ha ha)

Larry

The guitar is totally gutted. So it's just the body we're talking about. It's not see-thru its a retro looking green.

[baald]

if you have a place in a cool building that has a window that gets sunlight, you can probably get some UV happening, though i think even plain glass absorbs quite a bit of UV. you could also put a fan on it if youre worried about it getting too hot in the sun; you can get a black light from home depot or a headshop for some UV action. possibly some flouroscent grow-lights. i'd stay away form HID lights inside if you're worroed about heat as they get VERY warm

baald

[tiptone]

The lights are easy to spot, they're the kind that light parking lots, really most outdoor places that aren't still fluorescent. Metal halide is the white/blue color and high pressure sodium is the orange tinted one. Those are the colors that they tend to turn white plastics so I would try a metal halide with that green body of yours.

Most Lowes-type stores carry smaller 70W HPS and MH lamps pretty cheap. I do notice more HPS than MH for some reason, you may have to look a bit.

[paintguy]

It's the see-through colors or neons that are real colorfast(or subject to fading quickly).

I have a Les Paul (cherry sunburst) that I painted a little dark for what I wanted, and have exposed it to Uv light for years and the color has not faded a bit, or ever so slight.

I think you could expose a solid color for years and see very little change (if any).

Them paint co's. seem to make products that hold up to Uv light much better than before. Heck, My sunburst has the see through colors that they say are light sensitive, but I just can't get my Les Paul to fade after years of uv exposure.

Maybe it's just me.

Larry

[Joe]

Obviously none of you own a lizard.

Lizards need UV light to survive, so you have artifical UV lighting inside your home to keep a lizard.

In a pet store you can buy a bulb and fixture for about $15.00 total.

[aeolian]

Seriously, I think John's suggestion of a tanning lamp is about the best way to get enough UV on it. Glass attenuates IR (heat) more than UV but it does get in the way. The parking lot lamps do generate a fair amount of UV, but as paintguy says, the UV stabilty of most modern finishes is vastly improved. Especially polyurethane, which used to be fairly sensitive.

Guess the question is do you get a tanning lamp at home, or suffer the strange looks (and the odd tan lines :) ) at the local saloon? :eek:

[fullerplast]

Originally posted by John Phillips
You can get UV light from a tanning bed, like I said. You may have to hang around with a bunch of women in bikinis while getting your guitar tanned of course. The only problem is that they'll think you're weird :).

Whatever you do, *don't* tell those women you are putting your guitar in the tanning bed to make it look old! It will not go over well....:D

[Pointbreakd]

Originally posted by fullerplast
Whatever you do, *don't* tell those women you are putting your guitar in the tanning bed to make it look old! It will not go over well....:D


Haha that's really funny. I'm gonna do it. Tommorow I am going to a tanning salon. I figure there will be some cute girls there too.

That UV light from the petstore is a great Idea. I'll try that too. The color is borderline Neon green so maybe It'll fade. We'll find out

[Joe]

You two could spend the night at a HoJos, they always have a heat lamp in the shitter. :o

[Pointbreakd]

Originally posted by Joe
You two could spend the night at a HoJos, they always have a heat lamp in the shitter. :o

Haha that's very true

[Joe]

And why? Are there people out there who need to sweat to take a dump effectively? All that ever happens for me is my nipples get burnt if I am constipated and in there too long. :p

[Pointbreakd]

Originally posted by Joe
And why? Are there people out there who need to sweat to take a dump effectively? All that ever happens for me is my nipples get burnt if I am constipated and in there too long. :p

Um gross. I think it has something to with steam and condensation/mildew with the showers...

either way though

[cswolfe]

LOVE the actually taking the body of the guitar to a tanning bed idea (and like no other part of the guitar is involved).

IF the guys that run the place or cool (big if) they might get a kick out of what you're doing and cut you a break on a whole bunch of hours, since no way on God's green earth what you're doing will hurt them. But especially on that type of finish, it might take a lot longer to cook your guitar than it would a human, so if they don't cut you a deal it could be expensive before it gets effective.

[Pointbreakd]

Originally posted by cswolfe
LOVE the actually taking the body of the guitar to a tanning bed idea (and like no other part of the guitar is involved).

IF the guys that run the place or cool (big if) they might get a kick out of what you're doing and cut you a break on a whole bunch of hours, since no way on God's green earth what you're doing will hurt them. But especially on that type of finish, it might take a lot longer to cook your guitar than it would a human, so if they don't cut you a deal it could be expensive before it gets effective.


I'm going either today or tommorow, I'm actually hoping it will be a chick at the desk...Maybe I can charm my way into a free session for the body. I figure I don't want to do more than 20 minutes though. At least the first time. We'll see how it goes.

[cswolfe]

Excellent approach on all fronts. No downside to conservatism. Do keep in mind though that if 20 minutes in bright simulated sun fades your guitar, you might want to write your manufacturer immediately unless they were designed to play in bat caves only. ;)

Just playing around though, as I don't see any downside to playing it conservative. Best of luck.

My brains fritzed right now, but it would be wild if you were to snap some pics at least where you are in the process now (if you did not get originals before the sanding) so you'll have documentation of your "afters."

Best of luck,

sterling

[Pointbreakd]

ya I should get some pics going.

I figure people usually go tanning for like 10-15 minutes so that's prob equal to 3-4 hours in the blazing direct sun. I dunno I guess trial and error is the way to go here.

[buddastrat]

Just stick outside. A little heat won't hurt it. Lots of gigs have been played outside!!!!!!

It might even help dry the wood more to allow more resonance. Just a goofy theory but who the hell knows.

[slipbeer]

As long as you're getting pics, get some at the tanning salon:cool:

[PolyMorf]

Originally posted by John Phillips
That PRS is a poly finish. It depends on the stability of the chemical dyes in the finish, not the material itself.
Not all poly is created equal. My neighbor finished his front door, which is south facing, in poly and it looked gorgeous last year. This year it is cracking and severly curling up from the direct sunlight. He has to strip the door.

Regards,

Harry

[Pointbreakd]

so im actually drove by a pet store and picked up a UV bulb for 5 bucks, ill leave that on it and see what happens.

[aeolian]

As someone who owns a sailboat, I can tell you that nothing is "UV proof". UV resistant to varying degrees (usually with the expotential money factor), but old Sol gets to it all. Since guitars aren't intended to float at the dock 365 days a year, odds are that the UV resistance isn't state of the art and you may get somewhere with all this tanning lamp stuff.

BTW, I think some "background" pictures at the salon are appropriate. For "reference" only. ;)

[Pointbreakd]

Originally posted by aeolian
As someone who owns a sailboat, I can tell you that nothing is "UV proof". UV resistant to varying degrees (usually with the expotential money factor), but old Sol gets to it all. Since guitars aren't intended to float at the dock 365 days a year, odds are that the UV resistance isn't state of the art and you may get somewhere with all this tanning lamp stuff.

BTW, I think some "background" pictures at the salon are appropriate. For "reference" only. ;)

Yah, I think you are right in regards to UV.


As for the pictures...I don't really feel like getting kicked out of a tanning salon. Though I guess that does make for a good story.

[Lex Luthier]

Some dyes are more lightfast than others. Look at some of the early 3 tone Fenders and late 50's Gibsons where all the red faded out. Earler PRS guitars had dyes that didn't hold up well to sun exposure.

Nowdays there are more lightfast dyes available, and some of them just do not fade very well. I had a newer LP in the window for 6 months trying to mellow the red, and it barely faded at all.

[Pointbreakd]

The UV light for lizards did nothing, I left it on for 24 hours...I'll keep it going though at night...who knows.

The body is out baking in the sun right now...we'll see...as of now its just really hot.

[tiptone]

I wouldn't think the lizard bulb would work overnight, any solution is probably not going to be noticable over a 24hr. period.

Have a look at this page (http://unblinkingeye.com/Articles/Light/L2/l2.html) .

He's doing photo printing with UV light, but his general goal seems to be trying to get the most UV. I'm extrapolating (guessing) from his data that you'd get the most UV from a HID light like a Metal Halide, and after that pretty much any standard black light would work the same.

I could also be _way_ off base with this, but I don't think so.

[cswolfe]

Originally posted by Pointbreakd
Yah, I think you are right in regards to UV.


As for the pictures...I don't really feel like getting kicked out of a tanning salon. Though I guess that does make for a good story.

roflmao. sorry for the confusion, but thank you for the laugh. No no no. I'm only talking about a quick pick now, and a quick pic when the guitar has been faded to your satisfaction whenever that is, NOT remotely suggesting getting kicked out of a tanning salon as "creepy guy in booth #3 who went in there with a bright green piece of wood and a camera." rofl. :)

[Pointbreakd]

Originally posted by cswolfe
roflmao. sorry for the confusion, but thank you for the laugh. No no no. I'm only talking about a quick pick now, and a quick pic when the guitar has been faded to your satisfaction whenever that is, NOT remotely suggesting getting kicked out of a tanning salon as "creepy guy in booth #3 who went in there with a bright green piece of wood and a camera." rofl. :)

Yah, the winking guy threw me off....

I'm pretty much just exposing the body to as much UV as possible. out in the sun at night and the UV light at night.

tanning salon will happen, just a question of when

I actually already have a before picture...

[url]http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7330630635

Pics don't seem to justify just how green it was though...

[Larry Wallwart]

tanning bed