Adding a Mag pickup to a resonator

[Jimmydeez]

I am looking to add a Tele neck pickup to my Gold Tone Paul Beard Resonator. Here is a pic:

https://www.beardguitars.com/Merchant2/graphics/00000001/item-pbrca-1433_lg.jpg


I had a spare Tele pickguard lying around and using it as a template it looks like the pickup will fit just above the cover plate and below the sound screens.

Has anyone ever attempted something like this? I'm just wondering what it the best way to carve into the top.

Also the guitar already has a passive peizo pickup installed. Can I run them both to the same output jack with something like this:

http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Electronics,_pickups/Potentiometers/Blend_Pots.html

Or the better question may be -- How would you wire these two pickups? Would you setup a volume pot?

Thanks,
Jim

[walterw]

You mean like this?

http://store.nationalguitars.com/hot-plate.aspx

[Jimmydeez]

You mean like this?

http://store.nationalguitars.com/hot-plate.aspx

Kinda like that but not on the cover plate. I don't think the hotplate would work on the spider bridge guitar.

I basically want to cut into the wood top and add a tele pickup there. Then wire it to the same jack the piezo is. Here is the basic idea on a fender reso:

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/folk-traditional-instruments/fender-fr50ce-cutaway-acoustic-electric-resonator-guitar/511561000056000?src=3WFRWXX&ZYXSEM=0&CAWELAID=26041423

I would love to be able to adjust how much mag or piezo is being sent to the output jack but I'm not sure how I would wire that up.

[walterw]

You would have to either rig up an active blender/preamp on board, or run a stereo cable to a two-channel blender/preamp downstream.

[Jimmydeez]

You would have to either rig up an active blender/preamp on board, or run a stereo cable to a two-channel blender/preamp downstream.

This is because the output of the piezo and mag would be too different?

I had a feeling that would be the case. Hmmmm. What if I didn't want to blend the two. Maybe just a volume knob and a switch that would allow me to pick which pickup was going to the jack.

[SnorkelMonkey]

Just know there can be excessive feedback with a magnetic pup. I know I just did the same thing to my reso. I use a feedback eliminator when I plug in. I have not gone the piezo route (yet...) but I wonder if it's a better solution.

[TNO]

Put the pickup as close to the cone as you can get away with for the most natural tone.

[Jimmydeez]

Just know there can be excessive feedback with a magnetic pup. I know I just did the same thing to my reso. I use a feedback eliminator when I plug in. I have not gone the piezo route (yet...) but I wonder if it's a better solution.

Thats interesting... were you using a lot of gain? Usually a Mag pickup is more more resistant to feedback than a piezo.

[Jimmydeez]

I'm thinking I cut my old tele pickguard down and use the neck pickup hole as a template. Then I can drill out space I need. I'm wondering if I should pickup a hand held router for this job.

[walterw]

are you going to go to steel electric strings instead of bronze acoustic?

if you don't, that tele pickup will pretty much only get the hi E and B strings.

[Jimmydeez]

are you going to go to steel electric strings instead of bronze acoustic?

if you don't, that tele pickup will pretty much only get the hi E and B strings.

Yeah I would probably change to .12 electric strings with a wound third or even these:

http://drstrings.com/catalog/zebra-wound-round-cores

[SnorkelMonkey]

Thats interesting... were you using a lot of gain? Usually a Mag pickup is more more resistant to feedback than a piezo.

Nope, not at all. Barely any volume and clean. I have a feedback eliminator that helps but I wish I could just plug in and go. It might have something to do with the cone? I've done this with acoustics and you get feedback but not as bad as a reso. Btw Walter is right you need to move over to nickel strings. That's not a big deal for me. A great one to check out is the John Pearse reso strings. Back in the day all the blues and country players used nickel wound on those biscuit/spider reso's. Black Diamond's were one of the most popular. I really like those Pearse's, full tone and they last longer than PB's. Nice Gold Tone you got there! I have one of his square neck Dobro's. Really nice player OOTB and I got a hell of a deal on it new.

[Jimmydeez]

Nope, not at all. Barely any volume and clean. I have a feedback eliminator that helps but I wish I could just plug in and go. It might have something to do with the cone? I've done this with acoustics and you get feedback but not as bad as a reso. Btw Walter is right you need to move over to nickel strings. That's not a big deal for me. A great one to check out is the John Pearse reso strings. Back in the day all the blues and country players used nickel wound on those biscuit/spider reso's. Black Diamond's were one of the most popular. I really like those Pearse's, full tone and they last longer than PB's. Nice Gold Tone you got there! I have one of his square neck Dobro's. Really nice player OOTB and I got a hell of a deal on it new.

Thanks for the info... I'm not too worried about getting too much feedback. With an EQ I am able to completely remove it even at a pretty loud volume.

[SnorkelMonkey]

Mine feeds back like crazy. My feedback eliminator finds the frequency that's causing it and auto-EQ's it out. You should have the same capabilities if you have a robust multiband EQ.

I think the best route is a combo of piezo and microphone. Unfortunately there's not much room there for dirt. :(

[Jimmydeez]

Mine feeds back like crazy. My feedback eliminator finds the frequency that's causing it and auto-EQ's it out. You should have the same capabilities if you have a robust multiband EQ.

I think the best route is a combo of piezo and microphone. Unfortunately there's not much room there for dirt. :(

Can I ask what guitar and pickup you have?

Here is the kind of thing I'm looking for except I'll be playing it like a regular guitar in standard tuning:

aHlSPavxv5s

[SnorkelMonkey]

I tried a few different single coils and ended up with a very small humbucker like you would use on an acoustic archtop. They all had feeback issues but the humbucker was the least noisy. I'm normally a single coil guy but with this I figured the lesser of the two evils?

[Jimmydeez]

I tried a few different single coils and ended up with a very small humbucker like you would use on an acoustic archtop. They all had feeback issues but the humbucker was the least noisy. I'm normally a single coil guy but with this I figured the lesser of the two evils?

Yeah I was thinking about that Johnny smith type pickup as well. Hmmm. I think I'll take my chances with a Tele neck pickup and see how that goes.

[Jimmydeez]

So I ordered the Tele pickup, a blend pot, and a volume pot. I'm going to put both pickups into the blend knob and then to the volume pot.

I also got some pretty cool shotgun shell knobs. I hope it all sounds good.

[walterw]

you forgot a detail:
You would have to either rig up an active blender/preamp on board, or run a stereo cable to a two-channel blender/preamp downstream.
a passive mag pickup will not "blend" with a passive piezo. the mag sound might be compromised, and the piezo will pretty much go away entirely.

you need something like the fishman powerchip (http://www.fishman.com/products/view/powerchip) to preamp both signals and actively combine them.

besides, piezos sound like ass without proper impedance-matching preamps. the low end just doesn't happen, because it gets lost at the first thing the piezo connects to.

something like the powerchip will preserve the low end that would otherwise be lost due to the impedance mismatch.

[Jimmydeez]

you forgot a detail:

a passive mag pickup will not "blend" with a passive piezo. the mag sound might be compromised, and the piezo will pretty much go away entirely.

you need something like the fishman powerchip to preamp both signals and actively combine them.

besides, piezos sound like ass without proper impedance-matching preamps. the low end just doesn't happen, because it gets lost at the first thing the piezo connects to.

something like the powerchip will preserve the low end that would otherwise be lost due to the impedance mismatch.

Yeah. I thought about that but I'm not going to be doing much blending of the signal. I'll run it all mag or all piezo depending on the gig. I went with the blend pot because I thought the two shotgun shell knobs would look better than one and a mini switch.

Plus if I want to add the powerchip later I can more the volume infront of it for the mag and have the ability to blend the piezo in.

Any thoughts on how to cut into the guitar top? Thats what I'm worried about now.

[Jimmydeez]

Yeah. I thought about that but I'm not going to be doing much blending of the signal. I'll run it all mag or all piezo depending on the gig. I went with the blend pot because I thought the two shotgun shell knobs would look better than one and a mini switch.

Plus if I want to add the powerchip later I can more the volume infront of it for the mag and have the ability to blend the piezo in.

Any thoughts on how to cut into the guitar top? Thats what I'm worried about now.

Also if I run the piezo it will be going into a Fishman Aura Sixteen.

[walterw]

the blend pot won't work either, and for the same reason.

it would have to be at least 10MΩ to keep from killing the output of the piezo, at which point it won't work right with the mag pickup.

besides, whatever you plugged it into would sound good for one or the other, but not both, also for the same reason.

maybe a rotary 3-way switch? that would at least let one or the other sound good (assuming you plugged it into the right stuff) and you could use the cool knob on it. it could even be rigged into the powerchip so the middle setting actually worked.

[Jimmydeez]

the blend pot won't work either, and for the same reason.

it would have to be at least 10M? to keep from killing the output of the piezo, at which point it won't work right with the mag pickup.

besides, whatever you plugged it into would sound good for one or the other, but not both, also for the same reason.

maybe a rotary 3-way switch? that would at least let one or the other sound good (assuming you plugged it into the right stuff) and you could use the cool knob on it. it could even be rigged into the powerchip so the middle setting actually worked.

Gotcha. Now I see the issue. Sorry I am not really great at the electrical engineering stuff.

I try to find a three way rotary switch. I did see that there is a wiring diagram for putting a switch in the powerchip. Very cool.

[9fingers]

I also have the Fender reso you mentioned earlier (decent guitar actually but not nearly as nice as the Goldtone). The Tele pickup sounds pretty good in it. I'm not sure what is inside, but there is a Fishman Powerchip in the product description. It has 2 volumes, one for the mag & one for the piezo; pretty easy to blend 'em that way.
The piezo on that one howls like a banshee by itself too. Resos are REALLY bad for feedback with a pickup attached to the cone. With the 2 volumes I like to blend a little piezo in with the mag signal.

[Jimmydeez]

Yeah I think I'll eventually pickup the powerchip and install a battery compartment but that seems like a ton of cutting into the guitar.

I just ordered a three position rotary switch that I will wire up instead of the blend knob. Now I just need to find a diagram on how to wire this stitch up. I can't seem to find anything online.

[Jimmydeez]

So it is all finished. I'll take some pics tonight. The only problem it that the top of the guitar is so thick that the pickup is a lot farther than it should be from the strings. It still sounds pretty good but I imagine it would sound better closer.

Not sure how I can fix that. But overall this is a success.