This is disturbing....

[silvertone1481]

Gruesome. Ugh.

http://news.yahoo.com/8-old-brooklyn-boy-killed-dismembered-191831616.html

[gainiac]

Yup. Allover the news here.

[Vince]

So, so sad.

[tjmicsak]

Sick minds know no prejudice.

[schmidlin]

Kept the feet. Wow. Nothing surprises me about loony humanity anymore. Yet, I am somehow surprised.

Sad.

[MadFrank]

Incomprehensable.

My thoughts and prayers go out to the boy's family.

[localmotion411]

That story is so eery and hurts me to my core.

[MRscratch]

you from surrey delta? Clifford Olson type stuff . Who hurts a little kid?

[Dickie Fredericks]

you from surrey delta? Clifford Olson type stuff . Who hurts a little kid?

Obviously lots of folks. You didnt catch that in the several week old child at a concert thread?

Thankfully they have a suspect. It is unreal the things we must now do to protect our children.

[EricPeterson]

Very sad.

[phoenix 7]

Sick, horrifying and evil.

[shredtrash]

Horrifying.

[stinkbug]

Ugh...I didn't need to read that...I can't imagine what his parents have to do to endure it.

[coldfingaz]

Truly horrific.

I've spent a bit of time in that neighborhood & cannot even imagine how shell shocked that entire community is. There aren't many tighter knit communities anywhere in the city.

[tazzboy]

Crazy world we live in.

[thirsty one]

Ugh...I didn't need to read that...I can't imagine what his parents have to do to endure it.
I chose not to read past the first few lines. That is disgustingly evil. What kind of sick mind could a person have to live with themselves after doing that to a young child.

[CharlieS]

That is beyond comprehension. It was heart-wrenching to read that the father reviewed surveillance video of his son walking off, and said as the footage played, "Where are you going? What are you doing?" What a helpless and terrible feeling to watch your child walk into such danger.

[silvertone1481]

I just wanna make an observation....

Stuff like this leads to obesity. Think about it. In previous generations, kids could go outside and play without worrying about this stuff. Now, parents worry (100% justified) and have their kids stay inside, out of harm's way. They'll play video games, grow up to be a teenager and post on TGP all day (like me) and get no excercise until gym class starts up in the fall.


I'm prepared to be flamed.

[Custom Deluxe]

Truly saddening and disturbing.

This may not the most democratic thing to say, but in cases like this, I truly believe putting him through the justice system is an injustice. My only hope is that he'll get what he deserves when he goes to prison.

From what I'm told, even the most hardcore have little tolerance for those that murder kids.

[TrickinSid]

How can we stop these things from happening...?

I know you can't stop it all......some people are obviously just not right in the head.

But......what if the punishments were along the lines of and eye for an eye?

You cut a kid up......YOU get cut up....slowly, painfully.

MAYBE some of these freaks would think twice..?!

If it's a for sure situation that the person is guilty....forget the long trials,...
you go straight to the front of the line for your punishment.

Something has to be done about the crime in this country.

:(

[semi-hollowbody]

How can we stop these things from happening...?

I know you can't stop it all......some people are obviously just not right in the head.

But......what if the punishments were along the lines of and eye for an eye?

You cut a kid up......YOU get cut up....slowly, painfully.

MAYBE some of these freaks would think twice..?!

If it's a for sure situation that the person is guilty....forget the long trials,...
you go straight to the front of the line for your punishment.

Something has to be done about the crime in this country.

:(
For starters...STOP putting these psychos in resort prisons by themselves...put them in general population, hard labor...child killers dont do well...or even better, torture and execute these sick fux on national tv...let others know what happens if you hurt children...

This sick bastard will spend the rest of his life in solitary confinement (so the other inmates dont kill him) and will have free room and board...its the most ridiculous system ever...

I will volunteer to fly there, on my own dime, for free...and then pay for the privelage of executing this piece of shit!

[dankayaker]

The man is a sicko . . . .but we should show mercy and forgiveness . . . he probably didn't know what he was doing . . . in fact maybe we should put him in counseling (that we pay for) and support him the rest of his life.
http://www.thegearpage.net/board/images/smilies/barf2.gif

I'm very much in favor of the death penalty and this one should be carried out
immediately.

[dankayaker]

How can we stop these things from happening...?


:(



I forgot who said this but I think it was C.S. Lewis.
"We raise us geldings and bid them . . go multiply".
We have to seriously look at what young people are watching and saturating them selves with and perhaps not so blindly claim all things are acceptable.

[Custom Deluxe]

I forgot who said this but I think it was C.S. Lewis.
"We raise us geldings and bid them . . go multiply".
We have to seriously look at what young people are watching and saturating them selves with and perhaps not so blindly claim all things are acceptable.


Dead nuts correct. Some of the stuff I see or hear some of my elementary kids talking about is shocking. I'd say 75% of my students in the K-5 elementary school I'm the principal of (I'm in a great upper-middle class community) have seen R rated movies. Remember, most 5th graders are 11 years old.

The acceptence of abusive language is also something that is problematic.

Albeit there are no studies on this, I do believe social media and ease of communicating w/ one another through some sort of electronic medium is not helping, and in fact, may be creating a number of sociopaths.

[EricPeterson]

I thought this was an interesting juxtaposition:


We have to seriously look at what young people are watching and saturating them selves with

or even better, torture and execute these sick fux on national tv...l



I dont think that torturing anyone is going to stop sick deranged people from doing sick deranged things.

[gainiac]

I'd say 75% of my students in the K-5 elementary school I'm the principal of (I'm in a great upper-middle class community) have seen R rated movies.

A few years back I went to the movies to see "Bad Santa"........

I was rolling.......hilarious.......but man....... a few families came in with about 9-11 kids....... all between 7-11 years of age......

BAD SANTA?!?!?

[Custom Deluxe]

Sounds like you may like this book by Nick Flynn entitled The Ticking is the Bomb.

Here is a review from The Independent...

What gives this memoir its astonishing resonance is how Flynn effortlessly connects the personal with a much broader vision. Watching the destruction of the World Trade Centre on television, even though it was happening only a few blocks away, he sees his own moral collapse reflected in the screen as the towers crumble. Later, photographs of Abu Ghraib torture victims prompt him to consider man's capacity for cruelty, and that it's not so hard for someone who has grown up with the idea that human beings are disposable to brutalise someone else. Flynn seems to have no defences, no X-factor to shield him from the ghoulish horrors of the modern world.
This memoir is an appeal for redemption, in his case by bringing new life into the world. His narrative is driven by self-doubt and acutely reasoned analysis, but it is always humane, compelling and unsentimental.
It's rare that a piece of writing can speak so openly and engage so deeply with our hopes and fears. When he views a photograph of himself holding his newborn child, he sees himself "smiling so broadly that I barely recognise myself".
Amid the chaos and the moral breakdown, the pointless wars and the narcissism of political expedience, maybe it's the small, simple things that heal: "sometimes we just need to be held; sometimes we just need to be told we are beautiful".

[outlawyer]

The man is a sicko . . . .but we should show mercy and forgiveness . . . he probably didn't know what he was doing . . . in fact maybe we should put him in counseling (that we pay for) and support him the rest of his life.
:barf

I'm very much in favor of the death penalty and this one should be carried out
immediately.

It's NY. The dead boy's parents will enjoy the privilege of paying for the killer's food, shelter, recreational activities, HBO and Showtime, medical treatment, and maybe even his sex change operation until either they or the killer dies (assuming he isn't released in 8 years).

[tapeworm]

It's NY. The dead boy's parents will enjoy the privilege of paying for the killer's food, shelter, recreational activities, HBO and Showtime, medical treatment, and maybe even his sex change operation until either they or the killer dies (assuming he isn't released in 8 years).
This is, unfortunately, true.

[dankayaker]

I wonder why the charge of only Second Degree Murder ?

[silvertone1481]

This is, unfortunately, true.

One screwy system....

[silvertone1481]

I wonder why the charge of only Second Degree Murder ?

I believe it has to do with it being premeditated or not. (I may be wrong, what do I know about law?) but I think that was in one of the Casey Anthony threads...

[germs]

i find it simply ASTONISHING the media has to refer to this guy as a "suspect".

the feet were in. his. freezer.

they've got him with the boy. on tape.

what's REALLY sad to me is that unless the prosecution can prove this case beyond a shadow of a doubt, he'll walk with time served...due process, indeed.

at least the parents probably have ties into the Israeli Army, should any necessary cleanup work need to be done.

[hazel-rah]

Our system should punish much, much more harshly. An example should be made of this man---maybe all of the sickos would pause if they feared consequence.

[EricPeterson]

what's REALLY sad to me is that unless the prosecution can prove this case beyond a shadow of a doubt, he'll walk with time served...due process, indeed.

.

You find it sad that we should have to prove that criminals commit crimes before we punish them?


Man, the investigation is ongoing and people have already decided the guy is walking. Everyone needs to calm down, and be happy they have guy in custody. From what I read the guy already confessed, they are just trying to determine if he is responsible for other murders.

[semi-hollowbody]

i find it simply ASTONISHING the media has to refer to this guy as a "suspect".

the feet were in. his. freezer.

they've got him with the boy. on tape.

what's REALLY sad to me is that unless the prosecution can prove this case beyond a shadow of a doubt, he'll walk with time served...due process, indeed.

at least the parents probably have ties into the Israeli Army, should any necessary cleanup work need to be done.
The prosicution HAS to prove he is guilty...the defense ONLY has to introduce enough doubt, to show the prosicutuion cant prove guilt...so some sleaze bag douche of a lawyer will claim that just because its in HIS freezer doesnt mean he put it there...

[stratzrus]

If this doesn't qualify as a tabloid story I don't know what does.

Thanks for sharing.

[gainiac]

Our system should punish much, much more harshly. An example should be made of this man---maybe all of the sickos would pause if they feared consequence.

See this is the logical fallacy so many can't get beyond.......

What makes you think that someone who would randomly pick a young boy up off the street, take them home and cut them to pieces, would rationalize and fear consequences? It doesn't work, it never has.

The guy basically turned himself in. What you have here is a sick, predatorial mind with a serious disconnect. He needs to be removed from society, death penalty, whatever, doesn't really matter as long as he'll never have the freedom to do such again.

We will always have this in our society the best thing to do is raise your kids to be wary and careful.

This is a tragedy but murder is part of human nature.

[gainiac]

The prosicution HAS to prove he is guilty...the defense ONLY has to introduce enough doubt, to show the prosicutuion cant prove guilt...so some sleaze bag douche of a lawyer will claim that just because its in HIS freezer doesnt mean he put it there...

Something tells me that since they found the cutting board and knives in the fridge, the bloody clothes and towels allover his attic apartment, the fact that he told the cops the kid's head and torso were in a red suitcase thrown in a dumpster a few blocks away....something tells me the prosecution probably won't have too much of a problem with this one.

[EricPeterson]

Something tells me that since they found the cutting board and knives in the fridge, the bloody clothes and towels allover his attic apartment, the fact that he told the cops the kid's head and torso were in a red suitcase thrown in a dumpster a few blocks away....something tells me the prosecution probably won't have too much of a problem with this one.

No don't you see, this is the Pub we are already railing against the system for apparently not failing fast enough.

[gainiac]

No don't you see, this is the Pub we are already railing against the system for apparently not failing fast enough.



http://www.tsa.gov/blog/uploaded_images/iStock_000002974400Medium-729908.jpg

[a1briz]

Something tells me that since they found the cutting board and knives in the fridge, the bloody clothes and towels allover his attic apartment, the fact that he told the cops the kid's head and torso were in a red suitcase thrown in a dumpster a few blocks away....something tells me the prosecution probably won't have too much of a problem with this one.

Hmm...don't know what to believe anymore, especially if a jury is involved. Remember, common sense, as I was told and can now see, is not allowed in a court room.

And as for torturing the murderer on TV, I agree, it will not deter another sicko. But it is needed for us, not the sickos. Its a justice thing.

[gainiac]

But it is needed for us, not the sickos.

Makes you as sick as the perp.

[silvertone1481]

Hmm...don't know what to believe anymore, especially if a jury is involved. Remember, common sense, as I was told and can now see, is not allowed in a court room.

And as for torturing the murderer on TV, I agree, it will not deter another sicko. But it is needed for us, not the sickos. Its a justice thing.

There's that....Common sense is not allowed in most places anymore....

[EricPeterson]

And as for torturing the murderer on TV, I agree, it will not deter another sicko. But it is needed for us, not the sickos. Its a justice thing.

If you need to see someone tortured, you have a problem.

[gainiac]

Remember, common sense, as I was told and can now see, is not allowed in a court room.



Common sense is about as finicky as the wind. It used to be common sense to enslave people. It used to be common sense to perform medical experiments upon the mentallty infirm. It used to be common sense to beat children or your wife. It used to be common sense that the world was flat and the moon, stars and planets circled around the earth. It used to be common sense to imprison and torture those who thought otherwise. That's why rules and standards are important. You start to deviate based upon the emotional whims of the mob you have nothing.

[EricPeterson]

So if this guy is convicted and sentenced to life in prison, will the Pub declare the system is healed?

[a1briz]

Makes you as sick as the perp.

Maybe so...cause I'd carve up that bastard real nice.

[silvertone1481]

So if this guy is convicted and sentenced to life in prison, will the Pub declare the system is healed?

The system ain't gonna get healed. No matter what, someone will find it 100% wrong while another will find it 100% wrong. That's life.

[gainiac]

Maybe so...cause I'd carve up that bastard real nice.

It's makes sense to me that you probably should be locked up before you ever have such an opportunity. Thankfully we have a pretty good set of laws.

[a1briz]

Common sense is about as finicky as the wind. It used to be common sense to enslave people. It used to be common sense to perform medical experiments upon the mentallty infirm. It used to be common sense to beat children or your wife. It used to be common sense that the world was flat and the moon, stars and planets circled around the earth. It used to be common sense to imprison and torture those who thought otherwise. That's why rules and standards are important. You start to deviate based upon the emotional whims of the mob you have nothing.

Exactly..Common Sense not allowed.

[gainiac]

Exactly..Common Sense not allowed.

So you believe the world is flat, the mentally handicapped should be abused, children and women beat, and "inferior" people enslaved?

[silvertone1481]

This thread's gonna go south reeeeaaaaal quick.....

[a1briz]

So you believe the world is flat, the mentally handicapped should be abused, children and women beat, and "inferior" people enslaved?


No, now I don't. If I lived in those eras I might.


Maybe in the future it won't be common sense to dispose of child killers like this one, who knows. But right now, I believe its common sense to eliminate this pyscho with extreme prejudice.

[a1briz]

This thread's gonna go south reeeeaaaaal quick.....


You're correct. I'm done. I have an 8 year old son. Letting my emotions take the best of me. Carry on.

[A-Bone]

This thread's gonna go south reeeeaaaaal quick.....

This thread was born going south, with no potential for ever going any other way.

[A-Bone]

Exactly..Common Sense not allowed.

Common sense does not exist. It is rarely representative of knowledge that is actually common, and the ideas espoused as "common sense" rarely have anything to do with sense at all.

[A-Bone]

The system ain't gonna get healed. No matter what, someone will find it 100% wrong while another will find it 100% wrong. That's life.

Heads they win, tails you lose? Or did you mean to contrast 100% wrong with 100% right?

[gainiac]

This thread was born going south, with no potential for ever going any other way.


I guess North would be vigilantism fueled by vengeance; not far removed from random homicide!

[silvertone1481]

This thread was born going south, with no potential for ever going any other way.

Thanks....

[dankayaker]

Common sense is about as finicky as the wind. It used to be common sense to enslave people. It used to be common sense to perform medical experiments upon the mentallty infirm. It used to be common sense to beat children or your wife. It used to be common sense that the world was flat and the moon, stars and planets circled around the earth. It used to be common sense to imprison and torture those who thought otherwise. That's why rules and standards are important. You start to deviate based upon the emotional whims of the mob you have nothing.


That's a very simplistic look at history . . . where and when was it considered "common sense" to beat your children and wife ????
Taking a few very broad non-specific ideas and saying they were the prevalent thought of the time is way too easy, and lazy.
I do agree with your last line though.

I personally think our state needs to administer punishment in a very non emotional way . . .but it's the folks who immediately show concern for the murders rights that bother me most. This guy deserves to be tortured in the worst way . . . but . . .that would lead to many other problems in our society I fear.

[gainiac]

That's a very simplistic look at history . . . where and when was it considered "common sense" to beat your children and wife ????
Taking a few very broad non-specific ideas and saying they were the prevalent thought of the time is way too easy, and lazy.
I do agree with your last line though.

I personally think our state needs to administer punishment in a very non emotional way . . .but it's the folks who immediately show concern for the murders rights that bother me most. This guy deserves to be tortured in the worst way . . . but . . .that would lead to many other problems in our society I fear.

So the history of corporal punishment in a world mostly dominated by males in power is a figment of imagination.

Slavery was never a common practice or considered sensible.

Experimentation upon the handicapped was never a widespread practice.

Yup, I'm lazy.

The inference you make that the concern is for the murderer's rights is incorrect. That error lies with your perception. The concern is for the rights of the accused, and the accused can be any one of us.

[silvertone1481]

when was it considered "common sense" to beat your children and wife ????

Tribal Africa at one point in time. Men ruled everything. If a woman disobeyed or upset a man, she would be beaten. Same with children.

Slavery was never a common practice or considered sensible.

I once was in the American South pre-Civil War.

[dankayaker]

So the history of corporal punishment in a world mostly dominated by males in power is a figment of imagination.

Slavery was never a common practice or considered sensible.

Experimentation upon the handicapped was never a widespread practice.





Common Sense means that most people would agree (what we think in common) . . .so I would argue that at no time in history was any of those practices widely thought to be right. In fact I'd argue that we know about these things largely because enough people at that time thought them to be deplorable. I never called you lazy . . just that broad generalizing.

[overunderdrive]

See this is the logical fallacy so many can't get beyond.......

What makes you think that someone who would randomly pick a young boy up off the street, take them home and cut them to pieces, would rationalize and fear consequences? It doesn't work, it never has.

The guy basically turned himself in. What you have here is a sick, predatorial mind with a serious disconnect. He needs to be removed from society, death penalty, whatever, doesn't really matter as long as he'll never have the freedom to do such again.

We will always have this in our society the best thing to do is raise your kids to be wary and careful.

This is a tragedy but murder is part of human nature.

absolutely spot on.

the other fallacy is the ever-popular 'the world has gone to shit/it never used to be this way' argument.

the world has always been shit, and no, this is nothing new. it's been going on since the dawn of time.

the other breathtakingly stupid argument is that we should just summarily execute the suspect. some people actually believe that since all evidence points to guilt beyond a reasonable doubt, we should abandon due process and simply condemn him.

do we really need to rehash the importance of the presumption of innocence?

I will say this, however.

I am usually anti capital punishment, mainly because I think our criminal justice system is has inherent race and class bias, but I struggle with cases like this one.

If he is convicted, I have trouble seeing how justice could be anything short of a death sentence.

[Scott57]

I once was in the American South pre-Civil War.


How old are you?

[silvertone1481]

How old are you?

168 tomorrow.

:D

I meant to say "it" not "I"....

[Scott57]

Oh, okay. :D

Carry on.

[silvertone1481]

Oh, okay. :D

Carry on.

What, no happy 168th birthday?

[Scott57]

What, no happy 168th birthday?

It's tomorrow, right? Be patient.






Oh wait, you are going to be 168, we better get this out of the way now....Happy Birthday!

[silvertone1481]

It's tomorrow, right? Be patient.






Oh wait, you are going to be 168, we better get this out of the way now....Happy Birthday!

Thanks! Now get off my **** lawn!

[overunderdrive]

I just read a bit more about the suspect, including a transcript of his confession.

There's no doubt--this dude was not playing with anything close to a full deck.

Quote from the confession:

'...I understand this may be wrong and I’m sorry for the hurt that I have caused.'

[tiktok]

There's no doubt--this dude was not playing with anything close to a full deck.

Quote from the confession:

'...I understand this may be wrong and I’m sorry for the hurt that I have caused.'

Defense attorneys have that laminated onto cards they hand their clients during the first meeting, so they can start practicing saying it.

[outlawyer]

I just read a bit more about the suspect, including a transcript of his confession.

There's no doubt--this dude was not playing with anything close to a full deck.

Quote from the confession:

'...I understand this may be wrong and I’m sorry for the hurt that I have caused.'

Neither was Dahmer, but our omniscient justice system, with a straight face, declared him to be sane. Incredible.
Not that insanity should be a defense, mind you, crazy people are just as dangerous as sane people, but the charade of declaring Dahmer sane was almost too much to take.

[gainiac]

Neither was Dahmer, but our omniscient justice system, with a straight face, declared him to be sane. Incredible.



Sane in that instance is relative to his ability to understand that he commited a crime and would be punished for it as per the law.

[Go Cat Go!!]

The inference you make that the concern is for the murderer's rights is incorrect. That error lies with your perception. The concern is for the rights of the accused, and the accused can be any one of us.

I have to agree with this.

Regarding the accused, the news mentioned that inmates were screaming for his head already.

[Dickie Fredericks]

Im almost sure that none will agree with me but here goes.

What the guy did was pure evil and he deserves nothing short of death by suffocation and then dismemberment on live TV. Grrrrrrrrr sheer evil.

But, I also blame the kids parents. Who lets their 8 yr old walk the streets of Brooklyn?

[silvertone1481]

Im almost sure that none will agree with me but here goes.

What the guy did was pure evil and he deserves nothing short of death by suffocation and then dismemberment on live TV. Grrrrrrrrr sheer evil.

But, I also blame the kids parents. Who lets their 8 yr old walk the streets of Brooklyn?

Apparently it's common practice in that neighborhood.....er, WAS common practice in that neighborhood....

[A-Bone]

Neither was Dahmer, but our omniscient justice system, with a straight face, declared him to be sane. Incredible.
Not that insanity should be a defense, mind you, crazy people are just as dangerous as sane people, but the charade of declaring Dahmer sane was almost too much to take.

I suppose it is natural to think that, based on the reprehensibility of certain behavior and the extremity of certain acts, the person who committed them could not be sane. However, the legal standard for insanity is quite stringent.

What would qualify one as disturbed or mentally ill is often not sufficient to qualify that same individual under the standard of legal insanity. While this standard varies somewhat from jurisdiction to jurisdiction, it most typically involves a legal determination that the defendant is incapable of conforming their actions to societal standards, is incapable of distinguishing right from wrong, or some combination of the two. This is the language used by the ALI: "if at the time of such conduct as a result of mental disease or defect he lacks substantial capacity either to appreciate the criminality of his conduct or to conform his conduct to the requirements of the law."

It is very rarely invoked as a defense to criminal charges, and in the small percentage of cases where it is invoked, it is rarely successful.

In the case of Dahmer, and that of most known serial offenders, the fact that they go to some lengths to conceal their crimes goes a long way towards defeating an insanity plea if one is offered. Many behaviorists note that psychopaths have little or no trouble conforming their behavior in the presence of law enforcement or corrections officers, for instance. As a matter of fact, serial killers are often model prisoners.

It is also significant to note that the insanity plea is itself often an excuse to avoid criminal prosecution. This means a number of very important things. In many jurisdictions it is an admission of performance of the acts charged, while excusing the specific punishment available in the standard criminal prosecution. And, also, a finding of insanity typically results in involuntary commitment to a psychiatric institution for an indeterminate amount of time, which is often the rest of natural life.

Finally, since it is an affirmative defense, the burden of proof is on the defense, and after implementation of the Insanity Defense Reform Act of 1984, the burden standard was raised to one of "clear and convincing" evidence of insanity (a high standard of proof), and the defendant's inability to control himself is no longer a consideration. The defense is available only to those suffering from a severe mental illness at the time the crime was committed.

It is also noteworthy that the insanity defense is one of the oldest affirmative defenses in world criminal law, dating at least to the time of the Code of Hammurabi. That anyone here would even suggest that it should not be available as a defense shows a fundamental failure of not only empathy, but also a lack of understanding of the criminal justice system and its place in society.

[outlawyer]

I'm well aware of the diminished capacity defenses. In Dahmer's case he made very little effort if any to conceal his acts, indeed his neighbors were constantly moving and complaining about the stench of rotting bodies. In one case a boy escaped, rant naked to the police station with a bleeding anus, and nothing happened to Dahmer. In another instance he was pulled over by police with garbage bags in plain sight full of various body parts.
The overriding purpose of criminal law and penalties is the protection of the public, not empathy with the murderer. How empathetic was it of the judge to idiotically declare Dahmer sane and then essentially sentence him to death by throwing him into the general prison population? Huh?

[A-Bone]

I'm well aware of the diminished capacity defenses. In Dahmer's case he made very little effort if any to conceal his acts, indeed his neighbors were constantly moving and complaining about the stench of rotting bodies. In one case a boy escaped, rant naked to the police station with a bleeding anus, and nothing happened to Dahmer. In another instance he was pulled over by police with garbage bags in plain sight full of various body parts.
The overriding purpose of criminal law and penalties is the protection of the public, not empathy with the murderer. How empathetic was it of the judge to idiotically declare Dahmer sane and then essentially sentence him to death by throwing him into the general prison population? Huh?

Wait, are we talking about capacity or insanity? They occupy fundamentally different positions in criminal law. Capacity has to do with the ability of a defendant to understand proceedings or assist in his own defense, whereas legal insanity is an affirmative defense designed to create a space where we do not hold the legally insane to the same standards of punishment and culpability that are available to the sane.

The statement regarding empathy had to do with your absurd claim that insanity should not be available as a defense or excuse. In talking about defendants who are legally insane, how could it possibly be reasonable or just to hold them to the same standards as those judged sane? In other words, empathy meant empathy for the insane.

[WheelchairBandit]

If you don't mind having nightmares for the rest of your life, read about Albert Fish. This sort of stuff has been going on a long, long time. It's the darkest side of human nature, without a doubt. Sadly, Hollywood has taken to glorifying stories along these lines ("Saw", "Hostile", ect), and I think a lot of people don't really understand that this stuff actually happens in the real world.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albert_Fish

Brian.

[gainiac]

Im almost sure that none will agree with me but here goes.

What the guy did was pure evil and he deserves nothing short of death by suffocation and then dismemberment on live TV. Grrrrrrrrr sheer evil.

But, I also blame the kids parents. Who lets their 8 yr old walk the streets of Brooklyn?

Dickie, I agree with how you feel, the outrage, absolutely. I do take exception with making a morbid spectacle out of it though; that only indulges the same visceral macabre darkness in all of us. It reduces us.

It's ironic how when one commits such upon an innocent it licenses the rest of us to partake of the same perversion in the name of vengeance.

In order for a community to thrive we all have to agree on how to handle things a certain way. Law is a compromise for the sake of maintaining civility.

[outlawyer]

The finding that Dahmer was sane is the absurd aspect. This is a man who tried to position corpses so that during rigor mortis they could stand.
Insanity as a defense is patently ridiculous if people as crazy as Dahmer are found not to have met the criteria. Insanity has its place, but that place is in sentence mitigation and the determination of the institution to which the defendant will be remanded.
I suppose my question regarding the judge's de facto sentence of death is one you wisely choose to sidestep.

[gainiac]

The finding that Dahmer was sane is the absurd aspect. Did Dahmer not understand what he did was wrong in the view of society? edit...that's capacity I see...forget it.

[Chris Scott]

CSI

Criminal Minds

Criminal Intent

...plus a never-ending stream of graphic exposure to all the wonderful exponents of war and terrorism, thanks to a collective news media that claims that "The People Need to Know" what those weirdos over THERE are doing to us/each other, and do you really think it's gonna solve anything but whet your own blood lust when you wag your finger at someone and say "We're gonna decapitate your a$$ on TV, by god - THAT'LL SHOW YOU!!

I'm NOT a religious person, but my god in heaven....:eeks

He's an exponent of a twisted society.

[EricPeterson]

CSI

Criminal Minds

Criminal Intent

...plus a never-ending stream of graphic exposure to all the wonderful exponents of war and terrorism, thanks to a collective news media that claims that "The People Need to Know" what those weirdos over THERE are doing to us/each other, and do you really think it's gonna solve anything but whet your own blood lust when you wag your finger at someone and say "We're gonna decapitate your a$$ on TV, by god - THAT'LL SHOW YOU!!

I'm NOT a religious person, but my god in heaven....:eeks

He's an exponent of a twisted society.

Eh, sickos have always existed, I dont think the media is creating more, just letting you know about the ones that are there. History is full of sick bastards that engage in all kinds of twisted acts.

[Go Cat Go!!]

Dickie, I agree with how you feel, the outrage, absolutely. I do take exception with making a morbid spectacle out of it though; that only indulges the same visceral macabre darkness in all of us. It reduces us.

It's ironic how when one commits such upon an innocent it licenses the rest of us to partake of the same perversion in the name of vengeance.

In order for a community to thrive we all have to agree on how to handle things a certain way. Law is a compromise for the sake of maintaining civility.


Be careful when you fight the monsters, lest you become one.
Friedrich Nietzsche

Gainiac I may not appreciate your dress code but I can appreciate your mind.

A girlfriend of mine used to sit in the exact seat where the Asian woman was sitting in when Colin Ferguson went on his rampage. She just happened to miss the train that afternoon. Almost 20 years later I still do not comprehend how he was labeled sane. Some part of me thinks that the state wanted to ensure that Ferguson was never going to be a free man.

[The Last Rebel]

Im almost sure that none will agree with me but here goes.

What the guy did was pure evil and he deserves nothing short of death by suffocation and then dismemberment on live TV. Grrrrrrrrr sheer evil.

But, I also blame the kids parents. Who lets their 8 yr old walk the streets of Brooklyn?
I dunno, I'd like to think that we as a society are above public execution. That sort of thing makes us just as bad as the criminals. Now the death penalty I would support in this case, it's pretty obvious this guy is a monster and there's no chance prison could possibly reform him.

[Dickie Fredericks]

Dickie, I agree with how you feel, the outrage, absolutely. I do take exception with making a morbid spectacle out of it though; that only indulges the same visceral macabre darkness in all of us. It reduces us.

It's ironic how when one commits such upon an innocent it licenses the rest of us to partake of the same perversion in the name of vengeance.

In order for a community to thrive we all have to agree on how to handle things a certain way. Law is a compromise for the sake of maintaining civility.

Yeah that was just a lashing out at the freak in the thread here. Sure, it wouldnt be made a spectacle and I see the point on that for sure.

[gainiac]

Gainiac I may not appreciate your dress code but I can appreciate your mind.

A girlfriend of mine used to sit in the exact seat where the Asian woman was sitting in when Colin Ferguson went on his rampage. She just happened to miss the train that afternoon. Almost 20 years later I still do not comprehend how he was labeled sane. Some part of me thinks that the state wanted to ensure that Ferguson was never going to be a free man.

I gotta get around to reading the Nietzche cat........

Lol on the dress-code........:YinYang

The thing that gets me with the Colin Ferguson scenario.........

People watched him load magazines.......watched.

Say a lot about the heads down, self absorbed, nature of our society.

**** that.

[Dickie Fredericks]

I gotta get around to reading the Nietzche cat........

Lol on the dress-code........:YinYang

The thing that gets me with the Colin Ferguson scenario.........

People watched him load magazines.......watched.

Say a lot about the heads down, self absorbed, nature of our society.

**** that.
Wow, I forgot all about that one. People watched him load magazines. Crazy.

[The Last Rebel]

I gotta get around to reading the Nietzche cat........

Lol on the dress-code........:YinYang

The thing that gets me with the Colin Ferguson scenario.........

People watched him load magazines.......watched.

Say a lot about the heads down, self absorbed, nature of our society.

**** that.
You know what, I'm just going to be honest, if I were in that situation I'm not sure I'd be able to act. Getting shot at has to be one of the scariest f***ing things in the world and I'm not brave enough to risk getting shot by some crazy asshole.

Feel free to hole punch my Internet Tough Guy Card.

[gainiac]

You know what, I'm just going to be honest, if I were in that situation I'm not sure I'd be able to act. Getting shot at has to be one of the scariest f***ing things in the world and I'm not brave enough to risk getting shot by some crazy asshole.

Feel free to hole punch my Internet Tough Guy Card.

I'm not bragging or anything like that. I was in a situation a number of years ago where I had to get the gun out of the guys hand, in my apartment.

3:30am I woke up with a racket in my living room. I walk out to see a roomate I "inherited" holding two hookers at gunpoint. He was coked up and drunk. I walked into the room and he brought the gun to bear on me. Long story short, I got the gun.

There was nothing else I could do.

[just ken]

See this is the logical fallacy so many can't get beyond.......

What makes you think that someone who would randomly pick a young boy up off the street, take them home and cut them to pieces, would rationalize and fear consequences? It doesn't work, it never has.

The guy basically turned himself in. What you have here is a sick, predatorial mind with a serious disconnect. He needs to be removed from society, death penalty, whatever, doesn't really matter as long as he'll never have the freedom to do such again.

We will always have this in our society the best thing to do is raise your kids to be wary and careful.

This is a tragedy but murder is part of human nature.Well said sir.

[Go Cat Go!!]

Note to self - don't f*** with A-bone, Gainiac or Outlawyer. Stick to Nancy Drew vs Hardy Boys threads fron now on.