Chord inversion Help

[RanaldoNecro]

Hello,

I want to play a 70's song by Blondie called Dreamin'. However instead of starting in first position D chord I want to play an first position F chord on the 5th fret. Which I would belive would make this start on a A chord.

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a119/albie333/Aon5th.jpg

Can someone help me map out using the circle of fifths and the above chord as a start?


D
When I met you in the restaurant,
G
you could tell I was no debutante
D
You asked me what's my
A
pleasure; a movie or a
B
measure?

I'll have a cup of
G
tea and tell you of my
D
dreaming…
Dsus2
dreaming is free

Original audio track is here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fOnv8lXDzhg

thx,

RanaldoNecro

[Bryan T]

If I understand correctly, you want to transpose from D to A, right?

A D A D
A E F#
D Asus

How you voice them is up to you . :)

[RanaldoNecro]

Bryan what would an Asus be in 5th position?

[Bryan T]

Asus4: xx7755

[RanaldoNecro]

Bryan you are my transposing genie in a bottle. It sounds Good!

Thx,

RN

[Bryan T]

Bryan you are my transposing genie in a bottle. It sounds Good!

Thx,

RN

It is really easy to learn how to do . . .

[RanaldoNecro]

circle of fifths?

[Bryan T]

circle of fifths?

That's certainly one way.

[RanaldoNecro]

what is the other way?

[Bryan T]

Figure out what key you are in and what the function of the chords is. Decide what the new key is and play the chords in that key with the same function.

Figure out on the guitar how to get from the original chord to the desired chord. Apply that same shift to all of the original chords.

Number the notes from 1 to 12. Figure out what you have to add/subtract to get from the original root note to the new root note. Apply that transposition to all of the chords.

They're all effectively the same thing, but it might click for you more quickly in one particular way.

[tbeale]

I have a little JavaScript calculator for transposing on my web site:

http://tombeale.com/index.php?page=Guitars/Transpose.php

Just change the first dropdown from the chord you're starting at and the second to the chord you want to change to. It'll show you all the chords.


I use bar chords to transpose quickly. Play the song using the equivalent bar chord for your open chords, move up or down however many half-steps you need to go, then convert back to open chords (if possible). Once you learn the basic I-IV-V-VI pattern, it gets pretty easy. You'd be amazed how many times someone new will join the group at the last minute and all of a sudden you have to adjust keys to accommodate their voice. (Worship teams can be pretty fluid, sometimes).

[Hotspur]

Figure out what key you are in and what the function of the chords is. Decide what the new key is and play the chords in that key with the same function.


Just to expand on this, let's do the example. The chords we have are D, G, A, and B.

Pretty clearly in the key of D. We want to transpose it into A, which is up a fifth.

So D, our old tonic chord, becomes A.

What about that G chord? G is the 4th of D. So that chord gets replaced with the 4th of A ... which is D. On a fretboard you can find a fourth really easily - if you don't know enough theory - by creating the e-shape bar chord ... and comparing if to the A-shape barre chord on the same fret. (eg a fifth-fret e-shape barrre chord is a A. A fifth-fret a-shape barre chord is a D).

Now where do we go with that A chord? A is the fifth of D. The fifth is two frets up from the 4th ... two frets up from D (the fourth of A) is E.

B is little tricker, because 4ths and 5ths become pretty intuitive (in part because the way the guitar is tuned - but also because 1-4-5 progressions are really common.) B is the 6th of D - start on a D-note, and count up your major scale until you get to B. So now find the 6th of A: start on an A, and count six steps up the major scale and you'll land on ... F#. Notice the relationship between D and B on the fretboard if you start with the A-string, fifth-fret D - the B is two strings higher, and one fret lower.

Notice the relationship between A and F#, starting on the low-E-string, fifth-fret A: it's the same! Two strings higher, one fret lower. (The guitar's consistency with these geometric patterns is part of what makes transposing really easy - but it's also why you can become a competent guitarist without knowing a lick of theory - although you have to be aware when the pattern you're looking at crosses the B string, since then everything has to slide up a fret.).

Stuff like majors, minors, 7ths, suspensions, etc ... that doesn't change when you change keys.

I'd strong encourage you to reread this and work through it until you understand it, because this is very basic stuff and it's incredibly useful. You will find yourself using it all the time and you can probably become comfortable with the basics of it with no more than 15 minutes of work.

[cruisemates]

Asus4: xx7755

Isn't it more like x77755

(or I would do this) or x75755 (A7sus4)
or x02233

[Bryan T]

Isn't it more like x77755

Same chord, repeating the E note.

(or I would do this) or x75755 (A7sus4)
or x02233

Sure, if he wants to play A7sus4.

[todd richman]

Great ideas for inversions-marked for reference.

[Hotspur]

One more thing:

This is technically called "transposition" not "inversion."

Inversion is when you play a chord with a different note in the bass. For example, let's say I play a D major chord with my thumb coming around to play the F# on the low E string. That's a D inversion which would be written D/F#. It's still a D major, but sound different.

What we're doing in this thread is transposing a song from the key of D to the key of A.

[tbeale]

Is true...

[tbeale]

A e
a# f
b f#
c g
c# g#
d a
d# a#
e b
f c
f# c#
g d
g# d#

[Old Tele man]

...make your own TRANSPOSITION SLIDE-RULE!

...simply print out the sequence below twice; then, place one on top of the other and slide back-and-forth to do your transposing.

C_D_EF_G_A_BC_D_EF_G_A_BC


...for example, to transpose key-of-A into the key-of-Eb, you'd position them:

_G_A_BC_D_EF_G_A_BC_D_EF_ <--new key on top
C_D_EF_G_A_BC_D_EF_G_A_BC <--old key on bottom

[JonR]

...make your own TRANSPOSITION SLIDE-RULE!

...simply print out the sequence below twice; then, place one on top of the other and slide back-and-forth to do your transposing.

C_D_EF_G_A_BC_D_EF_G_A_BC


...for example, to transpose key-of-A into the key-of-Eb, you'd position them:

_G_A_BC_D_EF_G_A_BC_D_EF_ <--new key on top
C_D_EF_G_A_BC_D_EF_G_A_BC <--old key on bottomYep. And then just remember the enharmonic rule: ""one of each note", or "flats only or sharps only". (Eg the key of Eb has a G and an Ab, not a G and a G#.)

[bigdaddy]

...make your own TRANSPOSITION SLIDE-RULE!

...simply print out the sequence below twice; then, place one on top of the other and slide back-and-forth to do your transposing.

C_D_EF_G_A_BC_D_EF_G_A_BC


...for example, to transpose key-of-A into the key-of-Eb, you'd position them:

_G_A_BC_D_EF_G_A_BC_D_EF_ <--new key on top
C_D_EF_G_A_BC_D_EF_G_A_BC <--old key on bottom

The fplks i used to play with @ church used to change keys from the printed sheets they had. They were always amazed that I played witout a capo and could transpose on the fly. Seems pretty basic to me...

[Hotspur]

...make your own TRANSPOSITION SLIDE-RULE!

...simply print out the sequence below twice; then, place one on top of the other and slide back-and-forth to do your transposing.

C_D_EF_G_A_BC_D_EF_G_A_BC


...for example, to transpose key-of-A into the key-of-Eb, you'd position them:

_G_A_BC_D_EF_G_A_BC_D_EF_ <--new key on top
C_D_EF_G_A_BC_D_EF_G_A_BC <--old key on bottom

While that works, learning how to do this on the fly is really simple, and will pay a lot of dividends.

It's hard for me to imagine what it says about a musician who won't spend the short amount of time required to master basic transposition, especially if you are doing it with your guitar in your hands (and thus have an easy reference).

Seriously, it won't take more than 15 minutes to get the basics down.

[tbeale]

When I play, I'm basically thinking of the chords as the 1st, 4th, 5th and 6th, which makes a pattern that's pretty easy to move around on the neck. If there are a lot of open chords, then I'll consider actually changing the chord sheet. In that case, I'll use the JavaScript utility or just write the chords out so I don't get confused (surprisingly easy to do) when changing the chords on the sheet.

[Old Tele man]

...yes, it *is* a mechanical "crutch" for some, but it also gets the job done for newbies who want answers before they know enough to ask the questions.

...simply "learning" the offsets is better but it's not an *immediate* answer for people wanting *immediate* answers.