PDA

View Full Version : list of known klon clones


takeittothemall
08-16-2011, 01:58 PM
i've been thinking about picking up a klon-style pedal recently. if the klon was to be available again soon, i would just buy the new version. but i haven't heard anything on that front. (if there is some news regarding the new release, please inform me).

subsequently, i've been trying to figure out what klone (or very near klone, in the case that a particular circuit has some subtle tweaks) options are available. here's what i've gathered so far:

tone monk phoenix: $259 buffered, $289 true bypass
yellowcake blackbox: $205
stigtronics tone vitamin: $189
jhs klone
fancy lad (though i don't know who makes this pedal)
monsterpiece STUD
soulsonic illuminated
dan zink minotaur
madbean klone (DIY kit)
piedmont aluminum falcon classic professional overdrive: introductory price of $200 plus shipping (available in builder's emporium)
mojopedals klown senator: $185 (available in builder's emporium)


does anyone know of any others?

p.s. please don't turn this into a thread about how you think cloning is wrong. as far as i am aware, the klon is not available, which, at least to me, negates any issue with cloning. i am simply trying to create a single place that members can go to see all the different klone options presented in a concise manner.

Jahn
08-16-2011, 02:14 PM
Here's a new one:

http://www.thegearpage.net/showthread.php?t=939590&highlight=monsterpiece+klon

Brink
08-16-2011, 03:57 PM
The Kalamazoo is, regardless of its sound, very very far from a Klon circuit.

I don't know all of those lsited but AFAIK the Pheonix, JHS Klone, Fancy Lad (which I think was a one off) are supposed to be exactly the same circuit.

Brink
08-16-2011, 03:58 PM
I saw one on eBay called Klown something-er-other that was an exact clone.

takeittothemall
08-16-2011, 04:00 PM
yeah, i am aware that the kalamazoo's circuit is completely different from that of the klon. but since so many recognize it as a klon alternative, i thought i'd include it in the list. i'll modify the original post to reflect this.

DSnellen79
08-16-2011, 04:00 PM
JHS Klon is supposed to be exact. I have one, it sounds awesome but Ive never played a real one so I wouldnt know the difference. They say its right on.

Brink
08-16-2011, 04:21 PM
A list of Klon alternatives could probably get very large very quickly.
A list of Klon clones would probably stop at 10.

takeittothemall
08-16-2011, 04:42 PM
ok. kalamazoo removed, which leaves us with a total of six. does anyone know the remaining three or four?

magnus02
08-16-2011, 04:43 PM
Soulsonic Illuminated OD

Klone but with more options... soulsonic builds awesome pedals, love my four banger

wundergussy
08-16-2011, 04:43 PM
Soulsonic Illuminated- Aw beat me to it!

Dan Zink Minotaur

beautiful liar
08-16-2011, 04:44 PM
There's a local (Polish) builder who is advertising one of his pedals as a Klone: http://allegro.pl/centaurus-jak-klon-centaur-i1767204183.html

mike@nortoncable.com
08-16-2011, 04:47 PM
Phoenix isn't a clone....

rwijaya
08-16-2011, 04:55 PM
The Madbean KLONE? its for DIY-ers, could this be called a direct clone?

takeittothemall
08-16-2011, 05:02 PM
@beautiful liar: if you can tell me the name and manufacturer of that pedal, i will add it to the list.

i've starting putting retail prices next to the names. i can't find listed prices for a couple of the klones, so if anyone knows, please fill me in.

Brink
08-16-2011, 05:08 PM
Phoenix isn't a clone....
The marketing copy speaks for itself - http://www.tonemonk.com/phoenix.php - and between "Professional Overdrive" and "highly sought after circuit that is no longer available" it's screaming.

analogmike
08-16-2011, 08:46 PM
allegedly

http://resources.ibanez.com/resourceservicehost/images/Ibanez/web/electronics/seriesThumbs/TS9.gif

Z*Z*Z
08-16-2011, 09:18 PM
http://img35.imageshack.us/img35/3949/rdzboard03.jpg

Fifthstone
08-16-2011, 09:46 PM
allegedly

http://resources.ibanez.com/resourceservicehost/images/Ibanez/web/electronics/seriesThumbs/TS9.gif

Is that right? If so, does it sound close?

orogeny
08-16-2011, 09:55 PM
Is that right? If so, does it sound close?
joke:crazy

danonbass
08-16-2011, 10:08 PM
Does JHS still make the Klone? I know it's not on their website, but I recall reading somewhere that once the Dude who made the Klon Centaur stopped making it, they started up again.

james russell
08-16-2011, 10:14 PM
Nothing to add to the list, but I LOVE my Soulsonic Illuminated. It nails the low gain OD and clean boost I've always been searching for. Never owned a Klon, so I can't compare.


James

danonbass
08-17-2011, 10:04 AM
Maybe someone should come up with a list of Klon clones named the "Klone". Seems like some people can't even think up an original name, much less an original circuit.

Since the Klon isn't made anymore I think the conversation about an "original circuit" is a moo one.

Also, having a similar name as the cloned circuit helps buyers know what they are buying without advertising "I have a clone for sale!"

Fifthstone
08-17-2011, 10:00 PM
joke:crazy

DOH!

PCE Effects
08-17-2011, 10:07 PM
Maybe someone should come up with a list of Klon clones named the "Klone". Seems like some people can't even think up an original name, much less an original circuit.

Klondike Gold - is that name taken? If not, it probably will be by morning!

wundergussy
08-17-2011, 10:20 PM
Maybe someone should come up with a list of Klon clones named the "Klone". Seems like some people can't even think up an original name, much less an original circuit.

Out of the eleven pedals listed in this thread, nine have original names. Of the other two, one is not marketed openly, so it has no name, and the other is merely a DIY project.

Voxguy76
08-17-2011, 10:26 PM
Anyone know who made this Klon Clone? I just picked it up off another member who doesn't recall who on TGP made it. Just curious. Sounds awesome though.


http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums/af195/RyanSale/c9a18a30.jpg


http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums/af195/RyanSale/4f044bf8.jpg

aflynt
08-17-2011, 10:36 PM
Anyone know who made this Klon Clone? I just picked it up off another member who doesn't recall who on TGP made it. Just curious. Sounds awesome though.

I'm fairly certain that is using a Madbean Sunking board. Looks like someone gooped over the "Sunking" label for some reason, though. At least they didn't scrape it off Joyo-mod style, though. :facepalm

-Aaron

ajoel32
08-17-2011, 10:44 PM
It's built by a forum member named baj2k (Mojo Pedals?). I had one for a bit. Sounded great! Though it is a Sunking build, I believe baj2k used high quality parts.

Voxguy76
08-17-2011, 11:03 PM
Thanks guys!

DSnellen79
08-18-2011, 01:09 PM
pretty sure the JHS Klone is around $265 and they will continue to make it until Bill releases the new Klon. No body knows when that will be.? I had to send them an email requesting the build. Took three months to get it but its a great boost pedal.

DocRock
08-18-2011, 01:24 PM
Another +1 for the SoulSonic Illuminated Overdrive. I've had one for about a year and a half, and I absolutely love it. Moreover, I've actually owned and gigged with the real thing ... and have done side-by-side comparisons with my best buddy's Klon as well.

SoulSonic is where it's at. I am a huge fan of the original Centaur. I believe it is one of the pedals for all time. I only sold the real one some years ago because I needed money at the time. This was obviously before they became worth what they're currently worth.

The SoulSonic will absolutely get you there. I can say this definitively because I've owned and gigged with both pedals numerous times. I paid $200 to acquire a very valuable sound which I had previously thought I'd never have again. I would hope that Klon Centaur fans will support Bill Finnegan, who I think is a super guy, once his revamped business gets off the ground.

In the meantime, the SoulSonic Illuminated Overdrive is a choice I'm very glad I made. Plus, Martin is an awesome guy as well.

Doc :)

eldanko
08-18-2011, 09:57 PM
Ok, so it's not actually on the market, but here's one I built from a Mad Bean board.

http://www.danekinser.com/gear/Klon2.jpg

And FWIW, it sounds pretty much dead on!

Agitator
08-19-2011, 07:05 AM
Ok, so it's not actually on the market, but here's one I built from a Mad Bean board.

http://www.danekinser.com/gear/Klon2.jpg

And FWIW, it sounds pretty much dead on!
Love it. :aok

tooter007
08-19-2011, 07:19 AM
How to order SoulSonic Illuminated Overdrive? I saw no prices or ordering info on the website....anyone? If you would share cost of this pedal, much appreciated.

King Rat
08-19-2011, 07:24 AM
http://a1.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/228297_10150250483602559_746292558_9096667_7852532 _n.jpg

this is a klon klon i picked up in a trade on the hcfx emp.

but the builder has a small clone business and you can find this one on his ebay store...

DocRock
08-22-2011, 03:42 PM
How to order SoulSonic Illuminated Overdrive? I saw no prices or ordering info on the website....anyone? If you would share cost of this pedal, much appreciated.

http://www.soulsonicfx.com/?page_id=64

Charlie_Pace
08-22-2011, 03:47 PM
That is so cool.

Ok, so it's not actually on the market, but here's one I built from a Mad Bean board.

http://www.danekinser.com/gear/Klon2.jpg

And FWIW, it sounds pretty much dead on!

Hoffe_68
08-22-2011, 08:34 PM
It seems like Soul Sonics Martin is doing a Bill Finnegan and has vanished from the face of the earth.
I ordered an Illuminated and paid for it in April. Now Martin doesn't answer emails anymore. Still waiting for that Klonsound:(

Jahn
08-25-2011, 09:28 AM
Here's a guy from greece:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Velvet-Minotaur-Klon-Centaur-Tone-/260838078968?pt=Guitar_Accessories&hash=item3cbb2939f8

and do "Klon Buffers" count?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Klon-buffer-Fredric-Effects-top-quality-signal-buffer-/200644380965?pt=UK_Guitar_Accessories&var=&hash=item746be67cdc

stellablue
09-21-2011, 01:47 PM
I just got one of those Aluminum Falcon Overdrives from PCE. It sounds very nice! I don't have a centaur to compare, but it is very close to the sampleson youtube. I'd like to hear a shoot out between the TM Phoenix, JHS Klone, and PCE Aluminum Falcon.

dmczern
09-21-2011, 01:59 PM
Aren't these suppose to be close .. http://stigtronics.com/id28.html
Tone Vitamin

Mark Kane
09-21-2011, 03:01 PM
I just got one of those Aluminum Falcon Overdrives from PCE. It sounds very nice! I don't have a centaur to compare, but it is very close to the sampleson youtube. I'd like to hear a shoot out between the TM Phoenix, JHS Klone, and PCE Aluminum Falcon.


The volume pot taper on these is way off but the sound is absolutely the closest. With the gain off and used as just a clean boost most of them do well. This one does that fat, compressed, low mid OD thing when you crank the gain that I've always liked so much about the real thing.

Class5
09-21-2011, 03:19 PM
http://a1.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/228297_10150250483602559_746292558_9096667_7852532 _n.jpg

this is a klon klon i picked up in a trade on the hcfx emp.

but the builder has a small clone business and you can find this one on his ebay store...

I saw this Staticwave on ebay:

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/140543934695?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649

TDavis
09-22-2011, 09:19 AM
Slick-looking pedal! Excellent job on the enclosure paint/graphics! I have to admit it catches your eye...and if you're happy with the tone, then you got yourself a win-win there, LOL!


Ok, so it's not actually on the market, but here's one I built from a Mad Bean board.

http://www.danekinser.com/gear/Klon2.jpg

And FWIW, it sounds pretty much dead on!

PCE Effects
09-22-2011, 10:27 AM
The volume pot taper on these is way off but the sound is absolutely the closest. With the gain off and used as just a clean boost most of them do well. This one does that fat, compressed, low mid OD thing when you crank the gain that I've always liked so much about the real thing.

Mark, how is the volume pot taper is different? They're both 10k linear and I test them so they should be fairly consistent. Is it a difference in the alpha pot versus the CTS 450 series or is there a volume jump? I'm worried a bad one might have crept through and want to make sure it's right. If you want to return it I'll be glad to replace it. Thanks!

eldanko
09-22-2011, 11:09 AM
Slick-looking pedal! Excellent job on the enclosure paint/graphics! I have to admit it catches your eye...and if you're happy with the tone, then you got yourself a win-win there, LOL!

Glad you dig it! I actually have a whole series of Pixar-inspired pedals. I've recently added some diode switching options to this for some different styles of breakup, as some "magical klon pixie dust" diodes are supposed to be one reason Klons sound so unique.

I'd be very interested to see which diodes these klone builders are using, as there's a decent number of opinions within the DIY community regarding which ones actually sound best/truest to the real thing.

popinvasion
09-22-2011, 12:29 PM
I would like to be proven wrong but I have yet to hear a clone that matches the real thing and many have tried.

scolfax
09-22-2011, 01:05 PM
^^^ FUD!

Mark Kane
09-22-2011, 01:15 PM
Mark, how is the volume pot taper is different? They're both 10k linear and I test them so they should be fairly consistent. Is it a difference in the alpha pot versus the CTS 450 series or is there a volume jump? I'm worried a bad one might have crept through and want to make sure it's right. If you want to return it I'll be glad to replace it. Thanks!

The one in mine has got to be audio taper. It doesn't hit unity gain until almost 3 o'clock and then around 4 o'clock it's a very noticeable jump. It works very much like a CTS audio pot in a les paul. It's not an issue at all for me, if it was I could swap it out myself. The gain control in this one I have is right on the money as is the gain tone. thanks for the offer but it's not necessary, I really dig this pedal as it is.

popinvasion
09-22-2011, 01:19 PM
^^^ FUD!

not quite. I would be happy to give a positive review on a clone that hits the mark. I have no problem with it.

sssmile
09-22-2011, 01:47 PM
not quite. I would be happy to give a positive review on a clone that hits the mark. I have no problem with it.

I was hoping you would reply I know your the klon man what did you think of soulsonics and pce's clone?

popinvasion
09-23-2011, 01:40 AM
I was hoping you would reply I know your the klon man what did you think of soulsonics and pce's clone?


I don't want to speak negatively of any builder, that said I have tried at least 5 clones and none were worth buying. I however never did not try the soulsonic illuminated-I wanted to try it but I think soulsonic has had a rough time as of late and is just trying to get his life back on track. PCE Effects Falcon-I need to spend more time with one to give an honest opinion on it so I will refrain-but the build quality is pretty top notch.

Wolfboy1
09-23-2011, 10:29 AM
From the soulsonicfx website:

"All SoulSonicFX devices are hand-made in Indianapolis, Indiana. I am constantly designing and developing new and exciting effects. Much of my inspiration comes from special requests I have built for people. I always welcome custom work!
If you need something special that you don’t see here, please drop me a line via the Contact page and we’ll discuss what’s possible.
ABSOLUTELY NO CLONES! I REFUSE TO BUILD ANY MORE CLONES OF ANYTHING FOR ANYBODY. PLEASE, DON’T EVEN ASK!!!"

also

"Hello everyone, I just wanted to let you know that I was recently robbed at gunpoint in a home invasion incident. I made it through the ordeal safely, but they stole my computer that had all my emails regarding pending orders and correspondence with customers on it. So, if you have a pending order, PLEASE send me an email as soon as possible so I can know which orders I owe to whom. My previous email addresses, that you would know if you are a customer, are once again valid. Thank you."

Wolfboy1
09-23-2011, 10:33 AM
Ok, so it's not actually on the market, but here's one I built from a Mad Bean board.

http://www.danekinser.com/gear/Klon2.jpg

And FWIW, it sounds pretty much dead on!


Man that is a work of art! :bow

baj2k
09-23-2011, 04:54 PM
Anyone know who made this Klon Clone? I just picked it up off another member who doesn't recall who on TGP made it. Just curious. Sounds awesome though.

http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums/af195/RyanSale/4f044bf8.jpg

Yes, this is one of my Mojo Pedals builds. I still make them. Check my signature. I can't confirm or deny who's PCB design it is because I do not have the suppliers permission to do so. No "JoYo" scraping going on here, the board maker just did not want to be associated with my builds and I am respecting that request. I covered it up with a bit of enamel paint because I didn't want anyone to assume that my builds were made by, or endorsed by, the board designer because they weren't. I bought a few boards, hand made a few pedals using top of the line components, was asked to find an alternate source, which I have done. Now I use a custom made board design that was created using the same verified schematic used by the designer of this board.

PM me if you have any questions and, I'm glad you like the pedal.

rwijaya
09-23-2011, 05:04 PM
Anyone know who made this Klon Clone? I just picked it up off another member who doesn't recall who on TGP made it. Just curious. Sounds awesome though.


http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums/af195/RyanSale/c9a18a30.jpg


http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums/af195/RyanSale/4f044bf8.jpg

those are madbean PCB board Clone.

i have one compared it with a silver KLON my friend has, it's pretty dead on the same sound and feels of it.

Hoffe_68
09-24-2011, 03:22 PM
I just recieved a Soul Sonic Illuminated OD. It's the 3rd Klon klone I owned. I don't know if it's exactly a Klon but it's the best sounding Klone I had.

I heard that Martin and couple of other kloners bought a real Klon to be able to reverse engineer it.
However it sounds incredible. As a boost with gain on 0 it's fat and adds shimmer. Turn gain up and there's even more mid godnesss.

And the sound really pops in the band mix. He also adds a switch to be able to choose buffred or non buffred input + a switch for different clipping options. So it's best of both worlds.

Even though it took ages for it to get delivered I give it the Thumbs up!

clapointe1
09-24-2011, 03:44 PM
Why do Klon clones cost so much ? Time ? Parts ? Hype ?

PCE Effects
09-24-2011, 04:26 PM
Why do Klon clones cost so much ? Time ? Parts ? Hype ?

Time and parts. It's a time-consuming, complex build.

Pedal Dan
09-24-2011, 06:36 PM
Hype.

stingrey1978
09-25-2011, 12:22 AM
Just ordered one of these heard good things!

http://mythospedals.com/?page_id=21

rwijaya
09-27-2011, 12:37 PM
Why do Klon clones cost so much ? Time ? Parts ? Hype ?

i got mine for less than 90 bucks.

eldanko
09-27-2011, 02:35 PM
Time and parts. It's a time-consuming, complex build.

I'm going to disagree *just* a tad and go with hype on this as well. I still consider myself a novice at best when it comes to building, but I was able to crank mine out pretty quickly.

Now, to really do the build right, you do have to put some time and money into finding the BEST parts for the build - and I don't see a lot of the klone makers doing that. Most of them are building off of Mad Bean or GuitarPCB type boards and throwing in correct but not necessarily top shelf components. I've even seen a few floating around with JRC4558 (Tubescreamer-type) ICs in them! I also see a host of different diodes being used....

Take the "Klon" name off of these things, and most of them wouldn't sell for 75 bucks. +1 for Hype.

eldanko
09-27-2011, 02:43 PM
Clarification to PCE: I am not knocking all klone builders - heck, I built one myself - and for the record, yours looks quite nice and is obviously NOT on a MB or GPCB board :beer

b3john
09-27-2011, 02:49 PM
Now, to really do the build right, you do have to put some time and money into finding the BEST parts for the build - and I don't see a lot of the klone makers doing that. Most of them are building off of Mad Bean or GuitarPCB type boards and throwing in correct but not necessarily top shelf components. I've even seen a few floating around with JRC4558 (Tubescreamer-type) ICs in them! I also see a host of different diodes being used....
The sweetspot in the Klon circuit is in the boost, not the overdrive, so the diodes aren't important as you might otherwise be lead to believe.

PCE Effects
09-27-2011, 03:13 PM
Clarification to PCE: I am not knocking all klone builders - heck, I built one myself - and for the record, yours looks quite nice and is obviously NOT on a MB or GPCB board :beer

No worries, I took no offense to anything you said. I think you're spot on about the build in general. It is what you put into it. I would encourage anyone who is handy with a soldering iron to give it a go. As for me, I etch my own boards through a positive photo process. I did my own trace of the circuit and my own layout. I also searched to find as many identical components as are available. Without getting into the ethical component of cloning (or Kloning, in this case?) I approach it the same way that a luthier does when duplicating a vintage Strat or Tele. And it takes the better part of a day to do it to the standard I set for myself.

I haven't seen another clone in person so I can't speak for how anyone else does it, but that's my take.

timhulio
09-27-2011, 03:43 PM
The diodes are common, easy to find types. The charge pump ICs are a little pricey, as is the dual gang pot. This would bump the parts cost up to around 15-20 a unit for the DIYer/small builder. Add a few hours build time and I'd say 100 would be a reasonable unit price.

eldanko
09-27-2011, 04:34 PM
The sweetspot in the Klon circuit is in the boost, not the overdrive, so the diodes aren't important as you might otherwise be lead to believe.

Depends on how you use it.

I don't know about them being common and easy to find, as Mr. Finnegan himself has alleged there's something particular about what he's using that's integral to the Klon tone.

Lots of the DIY guys have fallen in love with LM313Hs, but they're pricey and tough to come by. I see a lot of 1N34As in Klone builds...

DGTCrazy
10-05-2011, 07:47 PM
I just got the Mojopedal's Klone, and did a 20 minute A/B test with my Klon. I figured for the used price of around $160, I couldn't be that disappointed. And I just sold about 30 pedals in the Emporium....so I had some cash burning a hole in my pocket:omg

Well.....the Klone is every bit as good my Klon, with the slight difference being how the harmonics sound when playing ZZ Top top lead parts (Think La Grange at the end of the song). The Klon has a very, very slight bit more mid presence or fullness (not better, but different)....but on straight rhythm and lead tone.....I could NOT tell the difference. YMMV

orogeny
10-05-2011, 09:04 PM
i'd give that one a shot if someone wants to lend me one or sell me a used one. have a klon to check it against.

I just got the Mojopedal's Klone, and did a 20 minute A/B test with my Klon. I figured for the used price of around $160, I couldn't be that disappointed. And I just sold about 30 pedals in the Emporium....so I had some cash burning a hole in my pocket:omg

Well.....the Klone is every bit as good my Klon, with the slight difference being how the harmonics sound when playing ZZ Top top lead parts (Think La Grange at the end of the song). The Klon has a very, very slight bit more mid presence or fullness (not better, but different)....but on straight rhythm and lead tone.....I could NOT tell the difference. YMMV

mmolteratx
10-05-2011, 10:00 PM
I built these two, one for myself, one for a partial trade against an amp.

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6008/5941368382_15721a037f_z.jpg
http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6057/6216328522_061abeebe2_z.jpg

Guts of the second one:
http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6164/6196360687_dc12601643_z.jpg

Both are with real top quality parts, not necessarily what was used in the originals. Nichicon FG electros, Evox/Rifa polyprop caps, Analog Devices OP275 op amps, Dale resistors, etc. Really low noise floor and lots of clarity.

timhulio
10-06-2011, 04:29 AM
Wow. What's with the brownsistors? Do they have more mojo in them?

Lightningrt
10-06-2011, 06:57 AM
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Big-Knob-Klon-Centaur-Clone-LIMITED-EDITION-/180730844344?pt=UK_Guitar_Accessories&hash=item2a1465d4b8

One of these babies went for 80-odd quid recently, so it seems the buy it now may be inflated.

bean
10-06-2011, 08:38 AM
Wow. What's with the brownsistors? Do they have more mojo in them?

Those are Dales. Expensive, but pretty nice metal film resistors. I use them often myself.

Jim Cobb
10-06-2011, 09:03 AM
i bought a zink klone from dan and it cost me 185, if you wanna add that to the OP.

Hecube
01-28-2012, 08:13 PM
I built these two, one for myself, one for a partial trade against an amp.

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6008/5941368382_15721a037f_z.jpg
http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6057/6216328522_061abeebe2_z.jpg

Guts of the second one:
http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6164/6196360687_dc12601643_z.jpg

Both are with real top quality parts, not necessarily what was used in the originals. Nichicon FG electros, Evox/Rifa polyprop caps, Analog Devices OP275 op amps, Dale resistors, etc. Really low noise floor and lots of clarity.

You have the most beautiful paint schemes on your enclosures. The brown one is also growing on me.

ford
01-28-2012, 08:32 PM
We need pics of all the Klones here also.... :worthless

fieldsroyal
01-28-2012, 08:43 PM
Phoenix isn't a clone....


Fail. :rotflmao

vintage66
01-28-2012, 09:01 PM
There's a new one called the KTR I believe.