Espresso drinkers - espresso machine question

[slippyknees]

hey guys/gals,
so for about the last 10 years i've been using a nespresso espresso machine at home every morning - the one that uses coffee pods instead of grinding my own every morning.

no issues with the machine or espresso, the issue is with the cost. my wife didn't drink any for years but since our son was born...well, those with kids, you know. we're both hitting the sauce in the mornings now :rotflmao.

what i'm wondering is...are the machines where you grind your own coffee cheaper in the long run to use? every dollar counts these days and there's no way in h**l we're gonna stop drinking it any time soon so i'm wondering how to enjoy our coffees as cheaply as possible.

if it helps, i'd say we drink 1-3 a day (total) and it's about $60 a month...for coffee! geeez....

thoughts fellow addicts?

[Jd3]

I can relate ! I love my coffee too (wife, not so much), but I love 'big' coffee's and they are not cheap ...

This is maybe some advice you don't want to consider, but: at $60/month for something that BOTH you and your wife enjoy ? keep it ! ;) It's not a 'bad' habit (not booze or something wacky) ... and caffeine helps you energize .. it get's you going.

Sometimes there are things that are worth the dough :)

[yucatown]

My wife and I used to drink a lot of espresso pre kid. We got a Rancilio Silvia and Rocky. Best home use espresso machine and coffee grinder out there. When our daughter was born, making espresso every morning became a hassle. So we got a $20 drip machine from Target, but still use Rocky to grind our own coffee. We're happy with this setup. We still make espresso once in a while, but trust me, you might want to get yerself a regular coffee machine.

[telemike]

Well here's the thing with using espresso machines that are set up for traditional, which is whole bean through a grinder and tamped into a portafilter handle. It's really easy to make bad espresso because most people don't know how to adjust the grinder properly. Also, most likely you will have a consumer machine that in no way can duplicate the abilities of a commercial machine. So the bottom line is that you can spend a ton of money to buy a very expensive machine and grinder, and still not be able to make great espresso.

If you are looking for an inexpensive, and better experience. Get a moka pot. This is the traditional Italian way to make espresso. Bialetti makes great ones. You can use pre-ground coffee like Illy in a grind that is made for moka, have better espresso and save money at the same time.

[RSRD]

Illy coffee and expresso is amazing.

coffee=elixer of the gods!

[cugel]

i have a saeco automatic at home, just add water and beans. you take care of it and it will be your best friend. we have 4 a day. zero problems w/ superb reliability. now a true snob would prefer to pull their own, which i do at work in a decent italian device. please dont use over-roasted oily beans. biggest mistake is use those oily beans. thats OVER roasted. and as was mentioned the rocky and the silvia seems to be the go-to combo for stellar stuff

[tstone]

I haven't tried this thing, and know nothing about ease of use or taste, but according to the website it't way cheaper than nespresso pods, all while using your old machine:

http://www.coffeeduck.com/uk_espressomovie.html

or

http://www.nexpod.com/

Maybe worth a try?

[Blackmoreguitar]

If you are looking for an inexpensive, and better experience. Get a moka pot. This is the traditional Italian way to make espresso. Bialetti makes great ones. You can use pre-ground coffee like Illy in a grind that is made for moka, have better espresso and save money at the same time.

:agree
This is what I use, makes great espresso and very easy, doesn't use lots of counter space and no awkward cleaning. However I don't recommend the aluminium moka pots; they get kind of nasy after a while, try a stainless steel one.

[splatt]

using whole-beans, ground at home, is most def cheaper than using pods.

but, you do need to learn how to grind the beans & pull the shots;
it's not that difficult, really, with halfway-decent machines.
takes a minute, but..... is worth it, imo.

i love the moka-pot, too.....
but, as much as i dig it:
the coffee made using a moka-pot is def not espresso, per sé
--- even if you're using a coffee roasted & ground for espresso ---
which is defined by the process used, all of which requires an espresso machine.

[brentrocks]

We use a Mr Coffee expresso machine and buy pre-ground coffee.....we used to go to the local coffe shop and pay $5 per drink....now a bag of ground coffee, some milk, some hot cocoa (my own personal recipe) and sometimes ice and a blender....and we are good to go! for a LOT LESS!!! i dont know what the pods are, but it sounds like those are more $ than buying ground coffee?

[korby]

I've had espresso machine's , French Press is way better and they don't cost much .

[Steve W.]

As far as automatic user-friendly systems go, Nespresso is about as good as it gets. The price of the pods is what you pay for convenience.

People who take their espresso seriously will sneer at it, but the expense of buying and maintaining a good machine and grinder and supplying it with fresh roasted beans (not to mention buying a roaster and learning to roast your own, as many enthusiasts do), and the learning curve involved are significant.

To take the next step, you really need to enjoy the whole process as a hobby, as much as drinking the espresso, for it to be worthwhile.

If you just want strong, concentrated coffee that's cheaper to prepare (but that isn't really espresso), a moka pot or Aeropress might be acceptable. Even for those, which are cheap to buy, you will need at least a decent consumer level coffee grinder like a Capresso Infinity or one of the Baratza grinders for really good results. And a higher level consumer grinder like a Rancilio Rocky or Baratza Vario would be better (several hundred dollars).

Personally, my favorite coffee (not espresso) comes from my Krups Moka Brew, an electric coffee maker which uses a unique pressure system. The coffee is richer than drip, smoother and cleaner than stovetop moka (and it makes a full pot at a time), and as rich as French press can be, but without the sludge.

[CharlyG]

4 of us who worked together ended up with LaPavoni's. A great manual machine that will last forever, with little maintenance other than changing seals once in a while.

We got them used on ebay for around $300
http://www.google.com/products/catalog?q=la+pavoni+europiccola&oe=utf-8&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=shop&cid=10165892564857303538&sa=X&ei=BMlsTvjlFubUiALh2vCYDg&ved=0CEYQ8wIwAA

[splatt]

As far as automatic user-friendly systems go, Nespresso is about as good as it gets. The price of the pods is what you pay for convenience.
true!

People who take their espresso seriously will sneer at it, but the expense of buying and maintaining a good machine and grinder and supplying it with fresh roasted beans (not to mention buying a roaster and learning to roast your own, as many enthusiasts do), and the learning curve involved are significant.

i don't sneer at it, myself.
however:
as far as cost-effectiveness goes,
i almost bought a wee little nespresso pixie:
i like it!
we had one in the studio, recently, & i loved the quickness/neatness/convenience,
but.....
it's waaaaaaay more expensive to run than are
my beans-of-choice with my 2 OLD semi-auto machines,
the nespresso roughing out at about 50¢ per pull.

drinking at least 4-5 dbls per day, myself
--- not including the many friends who often pop by for a coffee ---
the nespresso machine isn't at all cheap nor convenient, for me.

it doesn't deliver as much crema, as well, & the choices for flavor/quality are nice,
but still quite limited.

To take the next step, you really need to enjoy the whole process as a hobby, as much as drinking the espresso, for it to be worthwhile.

i agree, of course, that there's a learning curve, BUT:
i do not roast my own beans, and doubt that i ever will.

i'm happy to get very freshly roasted whole beans from roasters like
espresso vivace, colombe torrefaction, intelligentsia (&, occasionally, the conservatory);
i also dig one of the roasts from dean's beans.

[straightblues]

I too have a Saeco automatic at home. Big investment up front, but well worth it over time. Great coffee, and espresso every time. It is a true pleasure in life. I have had it for years without issue.

[pennylink]

Been using this for decades. Excellent, consistent espresso with hardly any maintenance issues to speak of. Filter, rubber seal and other replaceable parts are readily available and relatively inexpensive compared to the fancy/electric espresso makers. Who needs frothy milk anyway?
http://9bar-espresso.com/zencart/images/20-9-Bialetti-ME.gif

[uitar99]

Been using this for decades. Excellent, consistent espresso with hardly any maintenance issues to speak of. Filter, rubber seal and other replaceable parts are readily available and relatively inexpensive compared to the fancy/electric espresso makers. Who needs frothy milk anyway?
http://9bar-espresso.com/zencart/images/20-9-Bialetti-ME.gif

+1. I don't know any better.

[tedm]

You can probably get down to $0.15 per double shot, with a little more up front cost, and clean up than a pod system.

For very low budget, (< $200) get a capresso infinity grinder, and a pump espresso machine, like a delonghi. Within a few weeks, or months, you will be getting pretty good shots from whole beans.

Stepping up to a better grinder, and a Silvia, Gaggia, le'lit, etc. will get even better, but will require more time than above initially, getting a PID temp controller will help (addl. $200).

A few home machines come PID ready, like the le'lit PID, and the new Crosslands CC1, these will let you dial in the exact brewhead temp (+/- ~1 deg. F).

Also, consider start-up times, the Silvia's require a good 30 minutes to warm up before using, though you can set them up on timers.

The Gaggia and le'lit can be ready to go in as little as 5-10 minutes.

www.hcespresso.com

[sfarnell]

I 've used the lower end Gaggia espresso machines for about 10 years. They do a good job but it seems like I'm having to replace a machine every 2-3 years because the boiler breaks down. I'm about to take the plunge for a higher end machine, something like the Rancilio Silvia and Rocky, or maybe even a fully automatic one.

I can't live without my morning espresso. Great way to start the day.

[tedm]

The Gaggia's have aluminum boilers, vs brass, so they need more attention to the water, and more frequent descaling.

I 've used the lower end Gaggia espresso machines for about 10 years. They do a good job but it seems like I'm having to replace a machine every 2-3 years because the boiler breaks down. I'm about to take the plunge for a higher end machine, something like the Rancilio Silvia and Rocky, or maybe even a fully automatic one.

I can't live without my morning espresso. Great way to start the day.

[splatt]

+1. I don't know any better.

bialetti was the original developer of the moka machine.
these can make wonderful moka-coffee out of espresso roasts!, but not espressi.

[JamesT]

You could buy an plug-in timer at Radio Shack for $11,

http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=4405611
a stainless steel perculator at Macy's for about $60

http://www1.macys.com/catalog/product/index.ognc?ID=62795&CategoryID=24732#fn=sp%3D1%26spc%3D298


and buy Dark Roast Community Coffee from New Orleans area
http://www.communitycoffee.com/product/Our-Traditional-Coffee/Dark-Roast/32oz-Ground-Dark-Roast

and will be close depending on amount put in for less.

Make it night before- set timer once and everymorning it will be waiting for you.

Actually there is more caffine in a cup than in expreso...

my pot and tome are like 20 years old. Timer bought in 1978.

[Florbastang]

I like the Aeropress. Cheap. Easy to use. Almost no cleanup or maintenance. It can make an espresso-like drink (more like concentrated coffee without the crema). Adding water or milk can make Americano or Latte, respectively. It does eat through beans quickly, though.

[sonhenry]

+1. I don't know any better.

Yep. This is the way.....

[CarbonArc]

Personally, my favorite coffee (not espresso) comes from my Krups Moka Brew, an electric coffee maker which uses a unique pressure system. The coffee is richer than drip, smoother and cleaner than stovetop moka (and it makes a full pot at a time), and as rich as French press can be, but without the sludge.

I was intrigued by this description; even found great reviews. But it seem to be no longer available (new, at least). Rats!

[Steve W.]

I was intrigued by this description; even found great reviews. But it seem to be no longer available (new, at least). Rats!

It's not currently being sold in the US, but is still in production.

When I heard Krups was going to stop distributing the Moka Brew here, I bought a backup unit on ebay and 3 backup carafes from US dealers that still had them in stock at the time.

If they all broke, I'd swim to Europe to get a new one.

[slippyknees]

thanks for all the great info / input!

some of this is what i thought....grinding my own is going to be a little harder initially and cheaper in the long run.

looking around, buying the "right" machine at a decent price is almost as hard as gear shopping - tons of options!

any suggestions for around $300? should i just suck it up and deal with my current machine at that price point or are there decent machines for ground / non-pod at that price?

[xntrick]

if you don't mind a manual machine try the outlet page from "whole latte love", i got mine from there and it has worked very well for the past 6 years:

http://www.wholelattelove.com/outlet.cfm?cid=1&scid=0&vid=0&bid=0&prid=0&crid=0&clid=0&ulcid=0&ulmid=0&ultid=0&ulsid=0&sort=itemprice&dir=asc&compare=

[Trego]

I like the Aeropress. Cheap. Easy to use. Almost no cleanup or maintenance. It can make an espresso-like drink (more like concentrated coffee without the crema). Adding water or milk can make Americano or Latte, respectively. It does eat through beans quickly, though.

I love mine. Just finished enjoying my morning cup. It's a great device to make just enough for me, and not worrying about having enough grounds in a drip machine to make the coffee actually taste good.

[joey3f]

4 of us who worked together ended up with LaPavoni's. A great manual machine that will last forever, with little maintenance other than changing seals once in a while.

We got them used on ebay for around $300


I have one that I bought in Sienna about 13 years ago... Use it everyday. Haven't even had to replace anything on it...

Coffee machines begin and end with la pavoni imo

[FractalGarden]

My wife and I used to drink a lot of espresso pre kid. We got a Rancilio Silvia and Rocky. Best home use espresso machine and coffee grinder out there.

It's what I have also. Winner.

(until yucatown suggested a coffee machine....)

[tedm]

For $300, I'd try to find a refurbished Saeco Aroma, and a new Capresso Infinity grinder.

Next step up is probably 2-3x and would be a PID unit, like the Crossman CC1 or a Quickmill Silvano. The Silvia is OK, but without a PID, there's a ~40 deg. deadband, so consistency and a long warm up time, or being able to brew custom blends as designed, is not possible with the Silvia.

[Ampegasaur]

Ditting Grinder, and Rancillio traditional single group head with single steam wand. I also work on high end commercial units, super auto and traditional machines for a good part of my living. La Marzocco is still king, but big dollars for those. Rancillio is good enough for me. I have never found a home unit that compares to even a low grade commercial tradititional. I am spoiled I guess.

[JSharp3180]

http://www.wholelattelove.com/Rancilio/silviabar.cfm

I've used mine for 5 years solid with absolutely no problems, and made thousands of drinks.

[leofenderbender]

I've used the Starbucks Barista pump unit since the mid '90s and always buy Starbucks Espresso roast preground on "3" on a Ditting grinder.

Great results!

[banjoze]

Double your consumption for 2 months then back off so you can feel OK about the price....

[yucatown]

It's what I have also. Winner.

(until yucatown suggested a coffee machine....)

Haha! Seriously though, our priorities changed with a little one. It's all about the caffeine now, and it's still nice being able to grind our own coffee with Rocky. Lets us still try locally roasted beans. But yeah, if we're just talking espresso, the Silvia rules. We used it for years and never had any trouble with it. To the OP, the secret to getting a consistently good shot with Silvia/Rocky is to get a good quality tamper too. Look into a click tamper to deliver constant pressure each time. Once you figure out the right grind on Rocky (we almost always had ours set at 10 or 11), you will be able to pull amazingly good espresso shots time after time. The whole package may cost you $500-$800, but it will be well worth it and will pay for itself. Good luck!

[TNJ]

Man,
Did Levin get you hooked or what!!?? :D

That's alot of Java.

I do 1-2 dbls a day.
Breve's to boot.

Can't help it (either).

S.
j

true!



i don't sneer at it, myself.
however:
as far as cost-effectiveness goes,
i almost bought a wee little nespresso pixie:
i like it!
we had one in the studio, recently, & i loved the quickness/neatness/convenience,
but.....
it's waaaaaaay more expensive to run than are
my beans-of-choice with my 2 OLD semi-auto machines,
the nespresso roughing out at about 50¢ per pull.

drinking at least 4-5 dbls per day, myself
--- not including the many friends who often pop by for a coffee ---
the nespresso machine isn't at all cheap nor convenient, for me.

it doesn't deliver as much crema, as well, & the choices for flavor/quality are nice,
but still quite limited.



i agree, of course, that there's a learning curve, BUT:
i do not roast my own beans, and doubt that i ever will.

i'm happy to get very freshly roasted whole beans from roasters like
espresso vivace, colombe torrefaction, intelligentsia (&, occasionally, the conservatory);
i also dig one of the roasts from dean's beans.

[Tom CT]

Sorry I'm late to the party...

A neighbor gave me his used Starbucks Barista several years ago, and I've brewed thousands of shots without a problem. I realize that it's a consumer machine, but it is made in Italy, is quite hefty (quality boiler?) and brews a tasty cup of espresso.

If you're trying to keep your cost down, find a used one on eBay. They're a great machine to learn on and you won't break the bank in the process.

[splatt]

Man,
Did Levin get you hooked or what!!?? :D

That's alot of Java.

I do 1-2 dbls a day.
Breve's to boot.

Can't help it (either).

ha!
no, t-lev didn't unceremoniously push my espresso buttons, really.....
my normal, daily intake is in the range of 4-5 dbls per day,
since the early-middle '80's.

when i'm working, though
--- most especially on film-scores ---
the intake goes up, as i often need to be awake for unusually long periods of time.

i think i hit my uncomfortable peak while scoring the film, "Friday Night Lights",
where, nearing the end of a very long day,
i asked my erstwhile assistant for a quad-shot;
he kindly pointed-out to me that i'd already had 18-dbls, so far, on that one day.....
that was shocking, to me:
i'd really had no idea, i was not counting.
and, so..... i dialed it back, to what i feel is pretty reasonable, for me.

i certainly don't ever suggest this kinda coffee-intake to anyone, though, ever.
as my neurologists regularly tell me:
i'm sporting a somewhat unusual metabolism, def as regards caffeine.

and: quality is decidedly still important, to me..... not just quantity.

[DaveF]

Anyone tried this machine?

http://www.amazon.com/mypressi-TWIST-Handheld-Espresso-Maker/dp/B003XT6AX6