Biggest Effect On Tone

[Stratocastergtrs]

So obviously tone is a very subjective thing and there are a lot of factors that influence it. Everything from the size of the room to the type of pick and even the type of coffee you drink (one of the funniest threads on here by the way :D).

My question is if you eliminate the player, which most people would argue has the biggest effect on tone, which of the following do you feel has the BIGGEST impact on electric guitar tone and why.

1. The material the guitar is made of (types of wood, shape, etc)
2. Pickups
3. Amp
4. Something else (feel free to elaborate)

Thanks for sharing!

[whaiyun]

Strap buttons. Refer to the thread below for more info.

http://thegearpage.net/board/showthread.php?t=889690

Btw. Welcome to TGP

[Balok]

Easy one...speakers...huge.

[gtraddict]

I will say pickups,
humbuckers on a strat will sound bigger than vintage(strat style) single coils on a les paul

[Kmaz]

Pickup height

[partsocaster]

The wood....when I play 7 of the same guitar and one sings, that one has good wood and construction.....

[FLStratcat]

Player non-withstanding.. I'd have to go with amplifier and guitar construction in a tie for most influence on tone. By construction I mean both the woods it's constructed of as well as its neck joint, bridge type, et cetera :)

[TattooedCarrot]

Player first, then amp IMO.

[chervokas]

Well, naturally, an electric guitar makes noise through two systems -- one mechanical, one electrical, and every element of each system works together in a complex dynamic relationship to create tone. So all of it matters. But for an electric guitar to go from the grossest tone impacts to the subtlest, I'd say the transducers are always the big place where tone is shaped for good or ill -- so pickups, speakers, mic's if you're miking....

Of course with most electric guitars you're talking about a passive circuit with the strings vibrating the in the pickups magnetic field generating a voltage so the string composition (pure nickel, nickel plated or steel), the pot resistance, the cable capacitance all play major roles in the pickup output and tone shape; you can't really think of the tone of the pickup without considering those other factors. They're part of how the pickup sounds in the system.

Scale length of the guitar is a big one with longer scale lengths giving you more complex, dense upper harmonics, and shorter scale lengths giving you more fundamental.

And of course the nature of the amp's circuit -- it's tone shaping, headroom, gain, distortion artifacts, etc.

Bridge hardware, type of bridge (obviously a tremolo bridge is going to have a profoundly different tone and significantly less sustan than a fixed bridge in almost all circumstances).

How resonant the body and neck wood is, is more of a factor with an electric than the type of wood itself I think. The body and neck on a solid body electric are kind of like a mechanical filter cancelling some frequencies, accentuating others.

[Amitar]

It all starts at the source...The Wood.
A great guitar will sound good through anything, just better on other things.
A crappy guitar won't sound good on anything...been there.

[bettset]

it's a sum of all the parts.......even your body. why did t-bone walker hold his guitar away from his body.......:munch

[EADGBE]

Wood.

[TunaNugget]

Amp

it's a sum of all the parts.......even your body. why did t-bone walker hold his guitar away from his body.......:munch

So he could see the fretboard.

[rushcentrale]

out of the OP's list, if i had to choose just one, it'd be the amp

[bismark]

Strap buttons.
Darn...that's fast. I was going to say that first. :FM

[ev333]

Your spirit/frame of mind

[mrpinter]

the amp

[Britishampfan]

Tone controls guitar and amp.

[Elias Graves]

Amp.

EG

[Eagle1]

Unfortunately it's everything including the player.

[superrock]

+1 amp.

[bluesjuke]

I agree with most here, there are many things that on there own have a big effect on it.

A good foundation is a neck and body matched well.

Of course an amp will let that shine it's best too.

Welcome to TGP Stratocastergtrs!

[Pietro]

Tie between guitar wood and amplifier imho.

[Dale]

So obviously tone is a very subjective thing and there are a lot of factors that influence it. Everything from the size of the room to the type of pick and even the type of coffee you drink (one of the funniest threads on here by the way :D).

My question is if you eliminate the player, which most people would argue has the biggest effect on tone, which of the following do you feel has the BIGGEST impact on electric guitar tone and why.

1. The material the guitar is made of (types of wood, shape, etc)
2. Pickups
3. Amp
4. Something else (feel free to elaborate)

Thanks for sharing!


1.) Player
2.) Amp
3.) Setup
4.) Pickups
5.) Material the guitar is made of

[Polynitro]

air under the frets.

[corn husk bag]

It is the synergy of all of the above. But remember one guitar/wood/amp/player/mic/pickup/pedal/etc. combination may sound good in a space, but not so good in another space. There are a lot of things going on here, one or more things can change the synergy completely or partially affecting the results obtained.

Everyone has an off night even if everything else is the same, too!

The closest thing I have seen having this great synergy most of the time are some jazz players and some classical guitar players. I remember going to see Joe Pass, his fender amp was acting up, making harsh reverb explosions through out the show. I was able to tune this anomaly out in my mind and must say Joe still played perfectly! The audience within the space is part of the synergy? Right?:hide2

Not dismissing the rock genre either. When Hendrix was on it was glorious, when he was off it was painful.

As was said there is a lot going on here. Don't forget the ears that may be turned your way. They are a special part of the synergy too.

Kind Regards,
Steve

[buddastrat]

1.) Player
2.) Amp
3.) Setup
4.) Pickups
5.) Material the guitar is made of

I think it's safe to assume it'd be the same player comparing guitars or components to note the difference. Unless someone can morph themselves into another human being.

[Stratocastergtrs]

So obviously tone is a very subjective thing and there are a lot of factors that influence it. Everything from the size of the room to the type of pick and even the type of coffee you drink (one of the funniest threads on here by the way :D).

My question is if you eliminate the player, which most people would argue has the biggest effect on tone, which of the following do you feel has the BIGGEST impact on electric guitar tone and why.

1. The material the guitar is made of (types of wood, shape, etc)
2. Pickups
3. Amp
4. Something else (feel free to elaborate)

Thanks for sharing!

Thanks to everyone for you responses and the warm welcome to TGP. I"m fairly new to playing the guitar (only been playing for a couple of years) but TOTALLY passionate about it. I've learned a lot just lurking on these boards the last few months.

Keep the responses coming!

[enharmonic]

I've heard the same amp sound different through different speakers / cabinets. My guitars sound like my guitars through most amps, so I'd have to go with speakers being 2nd in importance.

[semi-hollowbody]

Amp
Pickups
Strings
Cables pedals
Room
Humidity
Alignment with the moon
Your sign
The force




Wood

[3 Mile Stone]

Seriously? I cannot see how the answer is not the amp.

[IGuitUpIGuitDown]

Practicing. The more you practice the less concerned you are about every little nuance. Obsessing replaces physical work = bad tone.

[boogieman90]

I've seen great guitar player who can make a broom sound very good. Sum total of all the parts and prctice!

[IGuitUpIGuitDown]

I've seen great guitar players who can make a broom sound very good. Sum total of all the parts and prctice!

Our vocalist played a guitar that he thought was "junk" and then I played it and even he said "I couldn't get it to sound like that!"

No, it wasn't a $50,000 guitar. But it did have some great sounds, and was built very well. I still use it. Ibanez Artcore AS73.

[JPF]

everything

[splatt]

everything

^^^this.^^^

everything:

everything counts.

finally,
musicality seems generally to be inclusive of so many synergistic elements.






fwiw, which doesn't amount to much:
i deleted my earlier post, as i'd initially mistaken this thread for "trolling".

[strumbringer]

Biggest - playability of the guitar because it affects how you play. Other than that, the pickups and amp. Not that the other things don't make a difference - they do, but the pickups and amp are more often than not the weakest link tonally.

[Deathmonkey]

It all starts at the source...The Wood.
A great guitar will sound good through anything, just better on other things.
A crappy guitar won't sound good on anything...been there.

I agree with this.

There have been a lot of threads lately on a variety of guitar/music forums that seem determined to "prove" that wood has very little to do with tone, and it drives me fairly bananas. This notion that tone comes primarily from the pickups, or the amp, since the guitar is an electric device is spurious to me. If that was true, we could all just play Squiers with EMGs into modelers and be done with this whole "tone" thing.

Oh, I agree, it's all synergistic. Let's face it, the only people that obsess about stuff like this as much as we do are car junkies trying for that perfect mix of speed and handling, and World of Warcraft players trying for that perfect raid build.

Each piece plays a part, emphasizing or de-emphasizing frequencies, enhancing or dampening resonance, etc etc etc. Sure, different pickups and different amps make the most dramatic changes in timbre, but is that all tone is?

If I just change the mic and PA on Christina Aguilera or P!nk, does their voice improve? No. It may better reveal their voice, might make them sound better, but what you start with at the most fundamental level is what ends up being most important. If I sing through Beyonce's vocal chain, am I going to sound like her? Uh, my empty bank account says no.

A pretty dress is just a pretty dress. Makes a difference if it's Eva Longoria or Rosie O'Donnell in it.

Oh sure, one's man's trash is another man's treasure. Great music has been made with POS gear. But a lot of all of this is context. Mark Knopfler's tone isn't going to work for Immolation, nor is Angus Young's going to work for Jim Hall. Even if you put Kerry King in Metallica, it wouldn't work, sonically. More than one of my favorite punk players has used a Korean strat or no-name knockoff into a solid state Peavey, or Acoustic. Jack White uses all kinds of garage sale junk, and sounds fantastic. But I think its context. If plastic ukulele is the sound you're going for, it'll gonna sound great in the right context. Remember - you can get "great sounds" with stuff that doesn't necessarily have "great tone". It's all subjective.

I think there's a lot of wiggle room, and yes, some players can make anything work for them. But I really feel like, over 30 years of playing guitar, the wood is still the most important factor, as subtle and as undefinable as it may be. The saying "you can't polish a turd" has been uttered to me by almost every luthier and tech I've ever talked to - there's a wide range of wood types that can get good tone, and few that will always get flat, dead, or uninspiring tone, and a rare few pieces of wood - from trees felled by lightning, no doubt - that will get great tone.

Recording engineers will tell you, you can't boost what isn't there. Some guitars that lack certain frequencies, or too much in some parts of the spectrum, you are never going to "correct" that, no matter how many pickup swaps or amp changes you do. And pickups, while thay can certainly affect the timbre greatly, can't add resonance, harmonics, or response. They can only work with what's inherent in the wood.

Putting the pieces together to maximize that sound to match what you have in your head is then part of the journey. But I would posit most strongly that the most fundamental voice still comes from the wood. It is the basic building block that determines the limitations of what you can accomplish with each piece down the line. These nuances may be subtle enough to only be noticed over time, as either a love or a dislike grows for an instrument as you play it. It may take YEARS of pickup swaps, pot changes, amp adjustments, etc to realize that that guitar is "just a dud" (for you, anyways... someone else might still love it for what they do).

The argument over "what is good tone" comes in to play here as well, but that's an esoteric discussion for another day - there are people that LIKE less resonant guitars, preferring the added sustain or more focused fundamental that can be the trade off. One man's "warm" is another man's "muddy, and so forth. So it's possible that there is a "lid for every pot", so to speak, a place where many guitars shunned by some people would be perfect for others. And I think this muddies the waters a bit.

In the end, tho, I think that NO MATTER what you're going for, it all starts with the wood. It's the one factor you can't change in a particular guitar, and determines the basis of the voice of the whole package. It creates the fundamental voice of the instrument, determining everything else downstream. The trick, IMHO, is to then make sure all the additional components highlight that voice to the best desires of the player.

[IGuitUpIGuitDown]

There's now a theory that Antonio Stradivari was able to create such incredibly resonant violins because of the wood he used. This wood came from trees that were in the "Little Ice Age" of the late 1600s. The sun wasn't as prevalent so the tree rings were closer together, making MUCH denser wood than ever before (from Wiki):

A more modern theory attributes tree growth during a time of global cold temperatures during the Little Ice Age associated with unusually low solar activity of the Maunder Minimum, circa 1645 to 1750, during which cooler temperatures throughout Europe are believed to have caused stunted and slowed tree growth, resulting in unusually dense wood. Further evidence for this "Little Ice Age theory" comes from a simple examination of the dense growth rings in the wood used in Stradivari's instruments. Two researchers – University of Tennessee tree-ring scientist Henri Grissino-Mayer and Lloyd Burckle, a Columbia University climatologist – published in the journal Dendrochronologia their conclusions supporting the theory on increased wood density.
In 2008 Dutch researchers announced further evidence that wood density caused the claimed high quality of these instruments. After examining the violins with X-rays, the researchers found that these violins all have extremely consistent density, with relatively low variation in the apparent growth patterns of the trees that produced this wood.


I guess the wood helps. Don't tell Henry J! :D

[chervokas]

There's now a theory that Antonio Stradivari was able to create such incredibly resonant violins because of the wood he used. This wood came from trees that were in the "Little Ice Age" of the late 1600s. The sun wasn't as prevalent so the tree rings were closer together, making MUCH denser wood than ever before (from Wiki):

A more modern theory attributes tree growth during a time of global cold temperatures during the Little Ice Age associated with unusually low solar activity of the Maunder Minimum, circa 1645 to 1750, during which cooler temperatures throughout Europe are believed to have caused stunted and slowed tree growth, resulting in unusually dense wood. Further evidence for this "Little Ice Age theory" comes from a simple examination of the dense growth rings in the wood used in Stradivari's instruments. Two researchers - University of Tennessee tree-ring scientist Henri Grissino-Mayer and Lloyd Burckle, a Columbia University climatologist - published in the journal Dendrochronologia their conclusions supporting the theory on increased wood density.
In 2008 Dutch researchers announced further evidence that wood density caused the claimed high quality of these instruments. After examining the violins with X-rays, the researchers found that these violins all have extremely consistent density, with relatively low variation in the apparent growth patterns of the trees that produced this wood.

I guess the wood helps. Don't tell Henry J! :D

Yeah, but an acoustic resonator like a violin or an acoustic guitar especially an archtop, or even a piano w/ its soundboard -- in those cases the tone develops via the transmission of vibrations from strings through bridge to top or soundboard. A solidbody electric guitar is an entirely different animal, the tone is largely developed electronically with the body and neck acting as a kind of mechanical filter not an amplifying resonator, altering frequency response to some degree, but less substantially than the electrical components that do the work that the top and bridge do in acoustic instruments -- the pickup system (including the strings, pots and cable), the speaker and cab and the amp circuit.

[IGuitUpIGuitDown]

Or plastic, in Monsieur White's case. :Devil

A i r l i n e

[bilbal]

Its funny I should stumble upon this thread right now. I'm actually emailing with Bjorn from Mad Professor at the moment. I contact him with questions about my MP101 from time to time. He's the best - always has a quick, well explained answer for my questions.

I contacted him today because I have noticed a HUGE change in the response of my 101 thru my two cabs. One is a Mystik 1x12 with a 12L and the other is 2x12 Bludo with an Emi Governor and a TR/Emi 8/65. The 12L is much less "forgiving", I'll say. The Bludo seems looser and more chewy for lack of a better description. I prefer it.

All that said, I believe speaker choice and cabinet design plays a large part in tone.

[_MonSTeR_]

1. The material the guitar is made of (types of wood, shape, etc)
2. Pickups
3. Amp
4. Something else (feel free to elaborate)

Thanks for sharing!

In response to the original question, I think it has to be the amp and in particular the way it's set.

Take a Diezel and crank it for the heaviest tone you can get and you'll get a tone different from a Fender Twin that's set up to be a clean as possible.

Take an Ibanez JS1000 (basswood body with solid colour finish) and an Ibanez JS10 (plastic/composite body wih chrome finish) body and you'll find that through the same rig set the same way, they actually sound quite similar.

[elambo]

Player first

In my opinion as well. There's more variance and potential for improvement within your technique than in all the gear.

Second would be the type of guitar, I'd say. I can't always tell what style of amp someone's using (which suggests a certain amount of commonality) but I can usually tell the style of the guitar.

[JimR56]

It's mainly a combination of mood (how well your day is going, how many beers you've had, etc etc), how much you paid for the guitar, and how long you've owned the guitar.

:nuts

;)

[autonomous]

I think this thread has TGP in a bit of a pickle. Very interesting and formative. Merci.:munch

[paultanderberg]

I'd say (besides the obvious, "player"):

1. Amp
2. Pedals (like the difference between a TS808 and a RAT)
3. Wood type (body, neck)
4. Speaker
5. Pickups (a distant, but very important #5)

[Cream]

Volume
Circuit
Tubes
Speaker(s)

...
(everything else)

[Dale]

I think it's safe to assume it'd be the same player comparing guitars or components to note the difference. Unless someone can morph themselves into another human being.

Then skip that one on the list and you have it. I think it depends on your that day with that guitar.

[yucatown]

Tone controls guitar and amp.

This is it.

[gigs]

Hand, finger and elbow strength and dexterity.

[televox]

Unfortunately it's everything including the player.

I agree with this answer.

[phoenix 7]

The single most underrated factor in tone (aside from a guitarist's playing skill):

Whether he/she has their gear dialed in well.

I'd bet that millions of dollars worth of gear has been sold used because the original owner didn't know how to set it up well/dial it in and never heard what the gear was actually capable of. Particularly guitars and pickups.

[changeling]

..that bony mass of protoplasm holding the guitar.

[burningyen]

amp

[macatt]

In my 48 years of experience with many guitars and amps (mostly heavily modified by me with pickup changes, different bridges, tuners, neck swaps, speakers etc), the best sounding guitars are the ones that respond best to Touch.
The great ones respond to all the subtle differences in the way I excite the strings with both hands (soft, hard, vibrato styles and so on).

It's always in the wood or rather the combination of the body and neck and whether or not they compliment each other.
That touch sensitiveness is what makes me able to easily coax musical sounds out of them.

Sure, pickups and the amp make a large difference but wont give you that touch sensitive responce you can only get with that right combination of wood in the body and neck.

S Mac

[GCDEF]

The amp. Nothing else is even close. Compare the difference between a Twin and a Mesa Triple-Rec. Even though a Tele and a ES-335 sound pretty different, it's nowhere near the difference between those two amps for example.

[kimock]

Seriously? I cannot see how the answer is not the amp.

It's not. Seriously.

It's the room the amp is in.
Even the best amps suck in bad rooms, and pretty much anything sounds great in a great space.

[Rockledge]

No doubt it is the pickups and wiring. You can have a tonally excellent guitar with low output pickups that have little tone range and it will sound terrible.
You can have a tonally not very good guitar and put say, active EMGs on it and get a lot of tone and sustain from them, as well as great feel in the notes.
Obviously other things factor in, the ideal would be to have a guitar that rings like a bell with great sounding pickups.
But given a sacrifice ( other than overall workmanship , fretwork and intonation) the pickups would be the very last thing I would want to go scabby on.

Also, if you know how to drive an amp the right way, there are almost no bad amps. Even little 15 watt solid state amps can be made to sound good with the right guitar and adjustments.

[Pietro]

No doubt it is the pickups and wiring. You can have a tonally excellent guitar with low output pickups that have little tone range and it will sound terrible.
You can have a tonally not very good guitar and put say, active EMGs on it and get a lot of tone and sustain from them, as well as great feel in the notes.
Obviously other things factor in, the ideal would be to have a guitar that rings like a bell with great sounding pickups.
But given a sacrifice ( other than overall workmanship , fretwork and intonation) the pickups would be the very last thing I would want to go scabby on.

I have, however, put really decent pickups (years ago) in a really awful guitar... and it was awful...

[buddastrat]

I have, however, put really decent pickups (years ago) in a really awful guitar... and it was awful...

Same here. OTOH, any junk pickups in a great sounding guitar, sound great. I've done it. How a guitar sounds unplugged is how it sounds plugged in to me. The pickups are microphones. Don't they call them that, across the pond?

[burningyen]

Also, if you know how to drive an amp the right way, there are almost no bad amps. Even little 15 watt solid state amps can be made to sound good with the right guitar and adjustments.
Sure, they can sound good, but they will sound very different, which is what the OP was asking about.

[uptheweight]

Player first, then amp IMO.

Exactly!!!

[GCDEF]

The pickups are microphones.

Not really. They don't work the same way.

[GCDEF]

No doubt it is the pickups and wiring. You can have a tonally excellent guitar with low output pickups that have little tone range and it will sound terrible.
You can have a tonally not very good guitar and put say, active EMGs on it and get a lot of tone and sustain from them, as well as great feel in the notes.
Obviously other things factor in, the ideal would be to have a guitar that rings like a bell with great sounding pickups.
But given a sacrifice ( other than overall workmanship , fretwork and intonation) the pickups would be the very last thing I would want to go scabby on.

Also, if you know how to drive an amp the right way, there are almost no bad amps. Even little 15 watt solid state amps can be made to sound good with the right guitar and adjustments.

There are no combinations of pickups you can put in a guitar that will sound as different as the difference between a Super Reverb and a Peavey XXX. It's the amp by a very long way.

[elambo]

I'd say (besides the obvious, "player"):

1. Amp
2. Pedals (like the difference between a TS808 and a RAT)
3. Wood type (body, neck)
4. Speaker
5. Pickups (a distant, but very important #5)

I think anyone who puts pickups 5th hasn't played pre-CBS magnets. The difference between a good set of 50s or 60s pickups and anything from today is astonishing.

For over a decade I've been on the hunt for Strat pickups. I've been through them all, finally happy with Suhr V60LPs. I shouted from high mountains about how good these were. Then I plugged in a '63 Strat... I had no idea what I was missing. I had no idea Strat pickups could sound like these.

It's amazing how important perspective is: you spend years thinking you've heard the best and you're absolutely certain of it, then something better comes along and you realize you were ignorant.

[jpage]

Strings. A new set of Burnished Nickels compared to a rusty set of crap SS coated nickel strings makes a bigger difference than crap and boutique pickups.

[SAVOIE]

I'd say the amp is most imperative to a good sound, there are loads of other factors that effect a tone but the amp is 70% of the battle.

[cowboytim]

With Good PUPs, electronics and amp, I could make a great sounding guitar out of a pine 2by4.
One of these days I will to prove the point.
Might be a little hard to play but it'll sound good!

[Husky]

I think anyone who puts pickups 5th hasn't played pre-CBS magnets. The difference between a good set of 50s or 60s pickups and anything from today is astonishing.

For over a decade I've been on the hunt for Strat pickups. I've been through them all, finally happy with Suhr V60LPs. I shouted from high mountains about how good these were. Then I plugged in a '63 Strat... I had no idea what I was missing. I had no idea Strat pickups could sound like these.

It's amazing how important perspective is: you spend years thinking you've heard the best and you're absolutely certain of it, then something better comes along and you realize you were ignorant.

Well actually FYI we do use pre CBS magnets. Alnico 5 special from the exact same USA company using the same formulation and all processes used in manufacturing that were used in the early 60's. Also on that 63 strat it might not be the pickups you are listening too. Back to the OP question..... fingers and brain. Second answer would be everything else from the guitar to the speakers and the speakers being the most overlooked piece of the puzzle. In fact I'd venture to say no one piece of the puzzle (excluding the player) can make such a drastic change in tone as the speakers. Everything winds coming out through the final filter.

[GrooveSlinger]

I have to agree with Mr Suhr. Speakers.

[justonwo]

Funny, it was Mr. Suhr's own CAA PT100 (along with a few other choice amps) that convinced me of the amp's critical importance. Now, John, you're telling me I have to worry about speakers, too?

[skylabfilmpop]

Start with Player. In terms of GOOD players, it really is all in the hands!

[stompboy]

Biggest effect on tone?

Getting married and having kids!

[patentcad]

Look boys, I get a new Korean knockoff LP, a $425 guitar. The guitar sounds terrible out of the box. I go to Guitar Center. I A-B the guitar with the LP's on the wall, the ones with Burstbuckers or Classic 57 pickups. I prefer the latter, I have them install those Gibson pickups on the Agile. I play the Agile again through the same amp. It sounds as good or better than any of the LP's when an hour earlier it was terrible. Now I LOVE the tone on this guitar, before I changed out to the pickups it was midrangy, too bright, in-your-face awful. Now it's warm, fat, edgy. A couple of the GC employees who witnessed this agreed immediately, we all heard the same tone variations.

Please. These are friggin electric guitars, not Stradivarius violins. It's the pickups.

[Balok]

Look boys, I get a new Korean knockoff LP, a $425 guitar. The guitar sounds terrible out of the box. I go to Guitar Center. I A-B the guitar with the LP's on the wall, the ones with Burstbuckers or Classic 57 pickups. I prefer the latter, I have them install those Gibson pickups on the Agile. I play the Agile again through the same amp. It sounds as good or better than any of the LP's when an hour earlier it was terrible. Now I LOVE the tone on this guitar, before I changed out to the pickups it was midrangy, too bright, in-your-face awful. Now it's warm, fat, edgy. A couple of the GC employees who witnessed this agreed immediately, we all heard the same tone variations.

Please. These are friggin electric guitars, not Stradivarius violins. It's the pickups.
Sounds like it had lower output ceramic humbuckers that come on many lower end guitars. They don't do well when turned down, and have a bright spike around 4k. PU swap and -poof- sounds great.

[patentcad]

Yeah, well what do I know anyway? I read about these amazing tone changes from changing out the pots, etc. or even transformers on amplifiers. I'll never do all that. I'm a buy it from Guitar Center and hope it sounds good kind of guy, I only changed the pickups on that Agile because I hated the stock sound.

I'm not worthy of the champagne tone some of you guys pursue, that's for sure. But I know what I like, and my ME sounds smokin through that Egnater. Works for my pathetic playing.

[fjblair]

Player first, then amp IMO.


Okay play Strat through a clean Fender and a Les Paul through a tube screamer into a cranked Marshall and tell me the player is going to bring tone characteristics to the mix. he can bring his style but the tone is going to come from the pickups/pedals/amps/speakers.

[fjblair]

Seriously? I cannot see how the answer is not the amp.


The answer is the amp.

[Husky]

Look boys, I get a new Korean knockoff LP, a $425 guitar. The guitar sounds terrible out of the box. I go to Guitar Center. I A-B the guitar with the LP's on the wall, the ones with Burstbuckers or Classic 57 pickups. I prefer the latter, I have them install those Gibson pickups on the Agile. I play the Agile again through the same amp. It sounds as good or better than any of the LP's when an hour earlier it was terrible. Now I LOVE the tone on this guitar, before I changed out to the pickups it was midrangy, too bright, in-your-face awful. Now it's warm, fat, edgy. A couple of the GC employees who witnessed this agreed immediately, we all heard the same tone variations.

Please. These are friggin electric guitars, not Stradivarius violins. It's the pickups.

Well of course there are extreme examples.
Remember who ultimately listens to you play though. The audience is most struck by what and how you play more than the electronics. To me the guitar and amp are there to make the player happy so he can create the music. No matter what pickups or guitar you use if the speaker is shit you wont get very far just like the recording technique is paramount. Also not saying this is what happened but if the sales guys sold you and installed the new pickups what would you expect them to say?...........

[Husky]

Okay play Strat through a clean Fender and a Les Paul through a tube screamer into a cranked Marshall and tell me the player is going to bring tone characteristics to the mix. he can bring his style but the tone is going to come from the pickups/pedals/amps/speakers.
I heard Chet Atkins play through a Pau Ferro Neck super strat I made with a Floyd and EMG's while Knopfler played an L5 Gibson. Nobody would have ever known that they were not playing through their normal gear.

[gillman royce]

The wood....when I play 7 of the same guitar and one sings, that one has good wood and construction.....

Truth

[cowboytim]

Look boys, I get a new Korean knockoff LP, a $425 guitar. The guitar sounds terrible out of the box. I go to Guitar Center. I A-B the guitar with the LP's on the wall, the ones with Burstbuckers or Classic 57 pickups. I prefer the latter, I have them install those Gibson pickups on the Agile. I play the Agile again through the same amp. It sounds as good or better than any of the LP's when an hour earlier it was terrible. Now I LOVE the tone on this guitar, before I changed out to the pickups it was midrangy, too bright, in-your-face awful. Now it's warm, fat, edgy. A couple of the GC employees who witnessed this agreed immediately, we all heard the same tone variations.

Please. These are friggin electric guitars, not Stradivarius violins. It's the pickups.

:agreeThis is the truth.......although I throw out all the electronics.

[LarryN]

wood wood wood wood wood wood wood wood wood and wood. everything else is easier to adjust.

[cowboytim]

wood wood wood wood wood wood wood wood wood and wood. everything else is easier to adjust.

Ok then I'll use a 2by4 clear no naughts! Check out Jack White Folks.
What you need is money, money ,money, money....that's what makes a guitar sound good!
It couldn't be good electonics and quality pickups.
You have to spend thousands of dollars... not just hundreds!:sarcasm

[LarryN]

If I'm given a choice, wood that reacts over a nice range is what I'll choose. The consistency factor of pickups, amps, speakers, etc. is higher than the finding most resonant samples of wood. Of course you can make music on a 2X4, if that's the sound you like.

[RJLII]

Didn't read the whole thread. Please forgive.

Biggest effect on tone?

Practice, Practice, Practice.

[cowboytim]

Of course I'd paint the 2by4 with Nitro lacquer!
All kidding aside Mike Bloomfield inspires my tone.
Like you say practice, practice, practice.

[patentcad]

wood wood wood wood wood wood wood wood wood and wood

The sexual tension in this post is vaguely disturbing.

[robertkoa]

I'm going to say the acoustic tone of the Guitar even if it's electric has the biggest effect on tone, although you could say the pickups, but the pickups only pick up what the strings are doing which is largely the acoustic tone of the guitar............

This is why a Les Paul with Strat Pickups *won't quite sound like a Strat and vice versa.

* However IF you make a Les Paul with 25.5" scale length and put the Strat Pickups in the exact positions on the scale length- you'll get much closer, but if you listen really carefully, you've also changed the acoustic tone of the guitar by altering the scale length.

Now of course someone could come up with extreme examples of something in the signal chain which could become more important, blown speakers, blown output tubes, petrified Peacock Claws as picks, no air to transmit sound waves.........

[vortexxxx]

"Warm air currents....." I used to see that written on some vinyl bootlegs explaining why the music got muffled in parts but this could also refer to any background farting noises......

[wizard333]

1) Amp

2) Amp

3) Amp

4) Amp

5) Amp

6) Pickups

7) Neck wood

8) Fretboard wood

8 again) Body wood (yes the last 3 are in the correct order, I stand by it)

9) Other crap in the signal chain, potentially. Not necessarily if you design it well.


10) other stuff (bridge, saddles, pots)

[willyboy]

aside from everything in your signal chain, the most important without a doubt is your hands and your touch. I've got thousands invested in my gear and if I let some of my more challenged students play my rig they can still somehow manage to make it sound like crap. All it takes is good hands and good ears and you can make just about anything sound decent.

[rushcentrale]

1) amp
2) speakers
3) pickups
4) guitar neck
5) tubes
6) guitar body
7) cab
8) pedals
9) strings

[patentcad]

aside from everything in your signal chain, the most important without a doubt is your hands and your touch. I've got thousands invested in my gear and if I let some of my more challenged students play my rig they can still somehow manage to make it sound like crap. All it takes is good hands and good ears and you can make just about anything sound decent.

I don't know if that's the point of the thread. I'm thinking it's more like what will make your tone change the most given YOUR particular set of hands, i.e., what GEAR changes do to influence tone. It's a given that the real tone is in the player's hands, but my tone sounds different through different guitars/amps regardless of how bad you may think that tone is.

[Willicat]

Can't we just agree that everything effects tone..some more drastic than others.

[cube]

shoes or boots ....i have notice a difference :)

[splatt]

maybe consider this possibility:
your biggest effect on tone can't & won't actually be found nor sincerely pursued
within any discussion-amongst-strangers of the biggest effect on tone.

[yucatown]

maybe consider this possibility:
your biggest effect on tone can't & won't actually be found nor sincerely pursued
within any discussion-amongst-strangers of the biggest effect on tone.

Effectively ending this thread.

[elambo]

Well actually FYI we do use pre CBS magnets. Alnico 5 special from the exact same USA company using the same formulation and all processes used in manufacturing that were used in the early 60's.

My technical speak is exhausted at this point, but it was commonly agreed upon by a group of guitar techies that the magnets in modern pickups (and Suhr was mentioned specifically as they're my favorite new pickups) did not have the same properties as those from "back in the day." I don't know why, but that was the common belief.

And as someone who has about 12 Suhr pickups, I didn't realize this either. To me, it would have been a good selling point, though, obviously, not necessary as I bought them anyway.

And so, yes, it's not ONLY the pickups I'm hearing in the '63, but having swapped a couple different ones in there I know that the original '63 pickups have had an amazing positive affect.

[robertkoa]

Case.

Tweed Guitar Case= vintage tones

Anvil Cases, molded polystyrene=modern tones

Case in point- Empty Case = no tone

[ToneSter]

IMNSHO
I have "hundreds" of hours logged on this subject and I'm not talking about reading info. from forums.
(((All things focused on the style of a persons sound))).........proper room size & blah,blah,blah, meaning that if you are playing jazz the guitar does not have pickups designed for Heavy Metal......etc, and yes I also could make these pickups work well with jazz.......... roll the volume back a little........... blah,blah,blah.

Amp 26%
Speakers 22%
Pedals 22%
Guitar 15%
player 15%

I forgot to add wife factor............If you are playing at home
-10% to amp if she comes home and opens the door to the studio and gives you the look.