Launching my first business!!!

[scottieL]

Hey Guys, It's been a while since I've posted (and I was pretty new here even before my "leave of absence") but I've been busy. I made a discovery a few months back and have devoted my spare time to bringing it to market. Anyway, I've incorporated, got the parts made, patent filed (provisional worldwide), and website up and running and it's time to start making some noise!

Preface: Like many of you probably are now, I was fed up with the problems that come with having a tremolo system set to float. IE: bend one string and the rest go out of tune, flutter, detuning after dives and so on.

**I'm not trying to sell this to you guys, just sharing my excitement and spreading the word**

The discovery: Running sets of tremolo springs at different tensions can have a dramatic effect on a guitars performance. That is using one pair to keep the bridge floating, and a second pair barely under tension that will stabilize the bridge.

The Product: I'm calling it the Stay Toon'd Tremolo claw. It is a drop in replacement for the claws in all Strats and all other guitars fitted with standard and Floyd Rose tremolo systems. It has two sets of claws, Three in the back, two in the front and is fully adjustable.

What it does:

- Fully floating tremolo with a smooth natural feel.
- Hard-tail-esque tuning stability in bends(I sh!t you not).
- No flutter.
- Perfect tuning return after deep dives.
- Completely user installable in ten minutes or less, no drilling, no soldering, no special tools.

I'm selling them for $30 CAD (i'm in Vancouver) plus $7 shipping world wide. Compared to the competition it is by far the least expensive even before you factor in the tech bill people will save ($50-70 US to install a tremsetter).

**I have filed a provisional patent application with the USPTO, covering this and many other designs that harness this principle.**

My website is a tad sloppy (Working on it) but check it out at www.vanrosa.com

A video detailing the installation process and a test can be found here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QQK5aWGR8SQ

Sorry for the long post, let me know what you guys think, and please feel free to spread the word if you're as excited as I am.

http://i645.photobucket.com/albums/uu180/VanRosaGuitars/DSC_1643.jpg
http://i645.photobucket.com/albums/uu180/VanRosaGuitars/DSC_1637.jpg
http://i645.photobucket.com/albums/uu180/VanRosaGuitars/DSC_1645.jpg

[Phalanx200bc]

Congrats on all your hard work.... hope it pays off!!! Will check the site out at home!

[strumminsix]

Very nice!! What's the middle claw do?

[terrapin]

Seems like a very good idea........Hope it works and takes off for you. Ah, American Ingenuity!!!

[Kramer_nut]

Ah, Amerrican Ingenuity!!!

Considering he's from Vancouver he might consider that an insult!!

:rotflmao

[terrapin]

Considering he's from Vancouver he might consider that an insult!!

:rotflmao

WOOPS.............I meant North American Ingenuity!!!

[badger146]

looks interesting, good luck!!

[scottieL]

Thanks for the kind words guys. No offence taken Terrapin. The middle claw comes into play if you're using heavier gauge strings, 11's and up.

[scottieL]

I made a quick video to illustrate the benefits of the claw and prove what I was claiming. Sorry about the quality, I shot it with my phone.

I'll be doing up a proper video in the next week or so with a pair of US strats (one with one without) side by side.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nC8q5mKNUKA

[Guitar Dave T]

Looks like you may be onto something. If it works for you, I hope you can get some endorsers soon, and by all means, rush that thing to market, pulling out every stop. You have a short window before someone tries to copy it, and the quicker you get it to market, the quicker it's common knowledge that its your design property.

[jerrycampbell]

Cool idea! I appreciate the time and effort involved in designing, building and patenting a new product. If I had a strat I'd grab one. Good luck!

[DRS]

Hi Scott
Does it come with springs or will the springs off my trem work?
I assume the claw will work for any Fender style trem like my Hipshot Contour?

[Phalanx200bc]

Hire Carl Verheyen to demo it!!! That guy could sell sand to an arab.....

[Baminated]

CONGRATS - Looks awesome

[felken]

Look forward to real world experiences with this.

[Cream]

That's badass. I really hope this works out for you.

[wgs1230]

Top work. A design that seems like such a natural outgrowth of the original (as opposed to anything involving a locking nut) that it should have been around for years. I hope it takes off. Get that patent application filed!

[scottieL]

"Does it come with springs or will the springs off my trem work?
I assume the claw will work for any Fender style trem like my Hipshot Contour?"

It should work fine with the the springs you have, provided that you have four of them. If it's going into an older stock strat it may be worth getting some good new springs as old ones, particularly close to the ocean can oxidize and loose some of their resistance over time.

I'm mulling over shipping them with two good springs just to cover bases, or just selling them separately on my sight at a very low margin.

What do you guys think?

[felken]

Add 2 known good springs.

[fordfanjpn]

It should work fine with the the springs you have, provided that you have four of them.

Does that mean that despite the fact that you provided a center "finger" on the claw, it won't work with 3 springs?

Bill

[scottieL]

Three springs would work if your guitar is strung with 8's or 9's (2 full tension springs, 1 low tension). The centre "finger" is there for a couple of reasons. One is to accommodate a third full tension spring for use with heavy string gauges (11's (at the low end)-13's). The other is that I feel it is important for people to be able to revert the tremolo back to a more normal setup without any hassle.

[fumbler]

Some constructive criticism (I'm really just trying to help!): you have the word "address" spelled wrong on your vanrosa website. And you might want to soften your claims of "- Perfect tuning return after deep dives." A lot of us might find that very hard to believe. It sounds suspiciously like snake oil.

And about the ground wire: it looks to me like you've included two small threaded holes (for right- and left-hand setups I assume?) at the far corners of the main claw piece and a small machine screw to tie down the ground wire.- Completely user installable in ten minutes or less, no drilling, no soldering, no special tools.

Bravo!

I've always thought that claws should have that feature. Soldering to claws is always a royal PITA. Do you recommend crimping a grounding lug on the end of the wire? If so, you might want to include one in the package.
http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTIX1XEVHBo0EErHdwPxho2d0tULTGgL iiuu3MA6q6SbxV30b6R9VayU9ka

[Leonardo]

Congratulations!
I recommend installing it in a standard Strat and recording a demo video (with a stock claw comparison, if possible).
What do you mean, exactly, when you say no flutter/hardtail-esque stability? Are you saying that with the trem floating you can ring an open string while bend another, and it won't change pitch?

[J-custom]

How does this work? Seems rather interesting:)

[scottieL]

Hi Fumbler, I made a quick video to Illustrate the claws effects and posted around the bottom of page one of the thread. In hindsight I should have put in the original post (I'll edit it now).

Sorry about the typo, I thought I got them all (I'm dysgraphic). The ground stays put very well with just bare wire and a bit of torque from the screw driver.

In this case I feel that bold claims are the right way to go. Mainly because I can back them up, but also because claims like that throw people's critical thinking and scepticism into overdrive and leave even more room for delight when they are delivered upon. :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nC8q5mKNUKA

[DRS]

If it's floating, why does it appear, in your video, that the block is touching the front of the rout hole thereby making up pitches impossible? Maybe I'm seeing things.

[scottieL]

The block is close to touching the front but it's not. It hangs a couple of millimetres behind. I built that particular guitar in 11th grade shop class (my design, body from scratch, neck from a blank) and the tremolo cavity is about 1/4" lower than it could be in the body. Still my favourite electric guitar by far though. I even sold a CS strat a while ago, it wasn't better by a wide enough margin to justify the cost.

[J-custom]

Great Video! What pickups are in that strat? Is there a specific way that we have to position the springs?

Doesn't seem like it stayed in tune after diving though:/

[scottieL]

Try skipping the video back and forth between 1:39 and 1:49 to leave the dive out to here the tuning stay put.

I've got Dimarzio Area 58's in the neck and middle, and a '61 in the bridge. Fantastic pickups!

[monty]

Very cool, looking forward to trying one out.

[BBender]

Do you include installation instructions...how to use, etc.?

[scottieL]

These are the instructions that will be shipping with the claw. It's kind of long so I made the font small to take up less space...

Installing the Stay Toon’d Tremolo Claw


Things you’ll need:

- A Phillips head screw driver.
- A pair of wire cutters. Needle nose pliers or a good pair of scissors will work as well.
- Something solid to wedge behind the tremolo block during installation.

1. Get the guitar ready.
a. Remove the tremolo cover.
b. Prep the tremolo. Set the tremolo so the guitar is in tune and the back of the bridge is floating 3/16” above the body with:
i. 2 strait springs in the outermost positions for 8, 9, and 10 gauge strings.
ii. 3 strait springs in the outermost and middle positions for 11 or 12 gauge springs.

2. Take the load off of the springs.
a. The easiest way is to place a wedge (or just about anything as long as it is solid) behind the tremolo block, pushing the block up against the front of the tremolo cavity.
b. If you can’t find a suitable wedge, loosening your strings until they are slack will work as well.

3. Remove the original claw.
a. Take the springs off and set them aside for later.
b. Mark or make a mental not of how far the claw is away from the back of the cavity.
c. Unscrew the claw from the body, take care not the strip the screw heads.
d. Cut the ground wire as close to the solder joint as you can, and then strip the wire back about 3/8”.

4. Assemble and install the Stay Toon’d Tremolo Claw.
a. Put the claw together.
i. On the inner claw, place the two black bolts in their slots and place the nuts on the opposite side, close to the claws back but not touching.
ii. Affix the inner and outer claws. Using the Allen Key provided, screw the black bolts into place until turning gets harder as they reach the NyLock fasteners.
iii. Screw the Stay Toon’d tremolo claw in to place, matching the location of the original claw.
iv. Attach the high tension springs (2 or three depending on string gauge.
v. Attach the ground wire using the ground screw provided.

5. Tune the Claw.
a. Remove the wedge. If everything has gone to plan the guitar should be in tune and bridge should be floating 3/16” off of the body. If not, tune your guitar now.
b. Attach your low tension spring set so that it is not under any tension at all.
i. One spring for 8 and 9 gauge strings.
ii. Two for 10’s and above.
c. Tighten the low tension pair until your bridge is floating 1/8” off of the body and tune the guitar
d. In slow increments, continue tightening until you can play one string while bending another and have the pitch remain constant, retune the guitar.
e. Repeat part d until the guitar is in tune, bend stability is perfect, and the bridge is floating where you’d like it.

6. Finish up.
a. Re-install your tremolo cover.
b. Hold on to your original claw in case you decide to sell your instrument. (people are strange and like to but instruments stock)


7. Plug in and Play!
a. Note that your guitar will now behave differently in a number of ways. Your tremolo will feel different, applying resistance progressively instead of linearly. You may also notice a slight increase in sustain and brightness, roll off your amp’s treble to compensate.

I'll be including pictures, as well as posting a tutorial video on my site. Do you guys thing these are clear enough?

[J-custom]

Somewhat, but pictures will definitely help! Do you ship internationally?

[wes37]

Good luck! I'll likely buy after I see the installation video. That might sound weird, but I've tried other products and the long period of adjusting and readjusting makes many of them not worth the hassle. I'd love a floating trem to keep non bent strings in tune, but if I have to futz with it too much, I'll keep the current trem which I've learned to mostly work around.

If it is straight forwards, I'll probably buy several.

[scottieL]

I'm doing the video this afternoon! One of the great things about the claw is that it is set and forget. Once it's tuned, which should take about 5 minutes, it won't need changing unless you change tunings or string gauge.

[Super Locrian]

Anyone bought and installed this device yet?

[Twelvebar]

Show me a convincing demo with a strat and you've got yourself an ambassador in Holland!

[Cobra]

Great idea!

[scottieL]

Thanks guys, I've sold a few, including some to TGP members. Reviews have all been positive so far. I also had a table at the Vancouver Guitar Show which was a great time. I got to meet and demo the claw for some very interesting people including the head tech for Tom Lee Music (major retail chain in BC) and Simon Jarrett the owner of Kingsley Amps!

[MCK]

Congrats! Ordered one just now. Way to go!

[scottieL]

Thanks MCK, it's on it's way!

[MCK]

Super. Literally a stone's throw over the water. I'm sure it'll be here in no time. Thanks

[jeffkos]

The discovery: Running sets of tremolo springs at different tensions can have a dramatic effect on a guitars performance. That is using one pair to keep the bridge floating, and a second pair barely under tension that will stabilize the bridge.


ScottieL,

Forgive me for being a little skeptical about this idea, but the engineer in me wonders how this could be possible. As I see it, from the perspective of the floating trem bridge assembly, the strings on the top of the guitar are acting like very stiff springs. These are counter-acting the springs on the bottom of the guitar, albeit springs that are much less stiff.

In the end, it's a matter of "springs versus springs", and the trem bar assembly has no way of knowing what the stiffness or slackness of any of the individual springs are. It only "knows" that there is a combined tensile load on top of the guitar (from the strings), and a counteracting, combined tensile load on the bottom (from the coil / extension springs). Movement in either direction either reduces or increases the corresponding exerted load of the springs. And the bridge assembly doesn't really care if the bottom springs consist of say, one very large stiff spring, or say, a hundred very flimsy springs.

Am I missing something? Please enlighten.

Thanks a ton,
Good luck,

Jeff

[scottieL]

Hi Jeff, I like scepticism, it leaves more room for delight... as long as whoever is making claims isn't full of it!

The physics of it are a tad confusing. I stumbled upon the result months before I understood why it worked. The total load of a set of 10 gauge springs tuned standard is about 100 pounds (roughly 20 per string). In a standard strat set up to float, two springs take about a 50 pound load each, allowing the bridge to float. The trouble comes when tension is added to the strings (bending), no tension is added to counteract the bend.

For the most part, a spring's resistance increases in a linear fashion, however there is a short area (roughly 3/16" on a trem spring) in-which resistance increases at a increasing rate.

http://i645.photobucket.com/albums/uu180/VanRosaGuitars/forcecurve.jpg

Properly set up with about a 3 pound load in each, the low tension springs will create a quasi-discontinuous force curve, meaning that they can take on added resistance faster than the high tension pair and hold the bridge in place, whilst allowing the bridge to remain floating during normal operation.

I hope this makes sense. MCK's claw should arrive tomorrow or tuesday, perhaps he could do a review of it.

Cheers,
Scott

[scottieL]

Whoa, that graph turned out a lot bigger than I expected. My bad...

[gpro34]

cool!

[MCK]

I received my Stay Toon'd Tremolo Claw today! Thanks for a prompt shipment. It looks very well engineered and built. Also included was a nice Allen key to be used to adjust the inner claw which I thought was a nice touch. Great job!

I've always thought that claws should have that feature. Soldering to claws is always a royal PITA. Do you recommend crimping a grounding lug on the end of the wire? If so, you might want to include one in the package.
http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTIX1XEVHBo0EErHdwPxho2d0tULTGgL iiuu3MA6q6SbxV30b6R9VayU9ka

I fully agree with Fumbler. The grounding screw is a great inclusion in this product and throwing in a 5 cent grounding lug will make it a complete package.

I will install at the earliest opportunity and report back on my impressions. Either way it is an extremely well built claw which will add value to my guitar (in my own eyes if nothing else).

Thanks for making it. All the best

[burningyen]

I had the same skepticism that jeffkos did, but after thinking about it I could see how your device might work. I don't think your graph is right, though. In practice, I *think* this is the kind of behavior you see in springs (it's been decades since my mechanical and materials engineering classes):

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-lUrgDujZfLU/TqLEElr6tkI/AAAAAAAAAk8/5zOpuiLm098/s1600/spring+graph.JPG
Notice that the curve is steeper at the beginning, not flatter. So the low-tension springs should add a little extra resistance against string bends with the whammy at the zero point. The resistance curve will be asymmetrical around the zero point; the question is whether it's also discontinuous (like with a Tremsetter) or whether things happen smoothly enough that it's unnoticeable.

[pipedwho]

Bump. Any reviews yet on how it feels relative to a Tremsetter or other device with a 'zero' discontinuity?

[corn husk bag]

Any reviews?

Kind Regards,
Steve

[imastratoholic]

I'm with corn husk bag, I'd like to hear some first hand reviews. I'd also like to see the installation video, do you have a link for it?

[corn husk bag]

It is kind of strange that there are no reviews of this? I wonder what happened?

Kind Regards,
Steve

[simplecomplexity]

the review is 2 months overdue hehehe

[scottieL]

Hi guys, thanks for the renewed interest in the claw. The winter has been pretty rough on me on a number of fronts and I am just building up momentum again now. I will try to have the install video up by tomorrow.

As for reviews, all of them have been positive thus far, hopefully some of my customers could chime in here...

Some exciting things are happening right now, including a potential distribution partner and an endorsement! I'll fill in the details as they become concrete. My website will be getting a facelift over the next week as well.

Thanks!

[corn husk bag]

Hi Scottie,
Thanks for the update. Look forward to the video, and yes it would be great if your customers would chime in here. I for one am highly interested in this!

Kind Regards,
Steve

[scottieL]

The install video is now live! Check it out at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QQK5aWGR8SQ

[corn husk bag]

The install video is now live! Check it out at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QQK5aWGR8SQ

Hi Scott,
How much better is the tuning stability with your claw? Thanks for the video!

Kind Regards,
Steve

[tonecat]

I picked one up at the Vancouver Guitar Show last Sunday the build quality of the device is top notch
And I installed it last night and got it dialed in tonight. I am now able
to let my D string drone into the tuner while I drop my big E down to D
and the fretted or open D stays in pitch. It really does give hardtail type stability.
The trem arm feels good and I believe the reason the trem comes back to pitch so well is that the bridge stability(lack of unnecessary movement) means there is less sawing action (movement at the nut) so much less chance for it to go out of pitch. We tried to order 6 of these for the guitar shop I work at and
they wanted a minimum order of 20 which is unreasonable in these economic times. To be clear there is no minimum order requirements for retail customers
I like it and would be glad to sell them but the start up costs for a dealer at nearly $500
is way too much

[supercollider]

Pretty cool product! What material is the unit made of?

[tonecat]

Pretty cool product! What material is the unit made of?

I read in one of the statements from the designer that it was a type of stainless steel