speakers - duane allman

[buzzp]

If I want to chase Duane Allman's tone... what are those JBL speakers he uses?

[pater familias]

Think Duane's were the Unobtanium model.;)

[gillman royce]

Not sure if they were the stock celestions ( Live at the Fillmore) but the 4x12 cabs were turned into open back and he was running 50 watt head(s)

[buzzp]

Think Duane's were the Unobtanium model.;)


how much u want????????????????????????

[HEY!YOU!]

JBL D120's

[edgewound]

JBL D120's

And Dickie used D120F, K120 and E120 throughout the years.

[tmac]

Cerwin Vega

[cfljames]

If I want to chase Duane Allman's tone... what are those JBL speakers he uses?

They were Cerwin Vega ER123's I have chased this tone for years and these are the missing link.I have this setup in a 4x12 marshall 100bhw cab,this is what he used on the fillmore recordings,also rumours say he mixed these with H30 celestions?

[buzzp]

how much can i pick up some JBL d120's for? I'm playin thru a Z best 2x12

and these cerwin vega's if I can find them

[cfljames]

how much can i pick up some JBL d120's for? I'm playin thru a Z best 2x12

and these cerwin vega's if I can find them

Weber makes good reissues for either,good Jbl's are going for up to $350.00 per speaker and the Cerwins if you get originals are insane,try Er124"s they are just as good and less if you find them,I would contact weber and ask them what your looking for? It took me years to find the Cerwins.

[pine]

You might want to flame me for this, but I was playing through an Eminence Texas Heat, (about $75 new) and I thought it got pretty damn close to that Fillmore East sound

[buzzp]

Is it worth changing my celestion v30 and g12h30 out to get "closer" to the duane tone? I have a budget keep in mind

[big mike]

maybe lose the V30 for a JBL.

Check out member edgewound...believe he's a JBL Reconer/restorer.

[buzzp]

I'll start there then.

maybe lose the V30 for a JBL.

Check out member edgewound...believe he's a JBL Reconer/restorer.

[philipag]

They were Cerwin Vega ER123's I have chased this tone for years and these are the missing link.I have this setup in a 4x12 marshall 100bhw cab,this is what he used on the fillmore recordings,also rumours say he mixed these with H30 celestions?

Yep mixing C Vega ER 123s with Celestions or clones like Scumbacks is the ticket. He did use JBL D120's as well - but switched to the CV's sometime in 1971. This clip is a plexi Marshall 1986 clone into a 2-12 with a Scumnico and CV ER 123.

http://soundclick.com/share.cfm?id=11033437

[HEY!YOU!]

how much can i pick up some JBL d120's for? I'm playin thru a Z best 2x12

and these cerwin vega's if I can find them

Vintage one's are going to cost ya.
I think I saw some for sale for 3-$400 each, maybe more.

I bought 2 in '73/'74. I can't remember what I paid.
Old ones that aren't done sound incredible. Mine do.
I used them for clean jazz for a while but they take to being overdriven well
without distorting too much.

I recently had a cab made for them with a open/closed option. They were in my '63 Bassman cab, but I sold it, without the JBL's.
I use my '66 Bassman head with them.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v520/bh2285/IMG_0433-1.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v520/bh2285/IMG_0432.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v520/bh2285/IMG_0434.jpg

[philipag]

Vintage one's are going to cost ya.
I think I saw some for sale for 3-$400 each, maybe more.

I bought 2 in '73/'74. I can't remember what I paid.
Old ones that aren't done sound incredible. Mine do.
I used them for clean jazz for a while but they take to being overdriven well
without distorting too much.

I recently had a cab made for them with a open/closed option. They were in my '63 Bassman cab, but I sold it, without the JBL's.
I use my '66 Bassman head with them.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v520/bh2285/IMG_0433-1.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v520/bh2285/IMG_0432.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v520/bh2285/IMG_0434.jpg

The Vega's are MUCH cheaper than the JBL's - they are just much harder to find. I waited over a year for a pair to turn up on ebay. And I only got those because somebody was selling some old Traynor cabs that came stock with the ER 123's.

[HEY!YOU!]

I wouldn't pay for what they want for JBL D120's today.
But I'm glad I have 'em. :phones

[Red House]

This clip is a plexi Marshall 1986 clone into a 2-12 with a Scumnico and CV ER 123.

http://soundclick.com/share.cfm?id=11033437
Very nice all around!
:beer

[pjrhd28]

Chasing Duane's tone??

The speakers will be chicken feed compared to the 59 LP you're gonna have to pick up

[philipag]

Very nice all around!
:beer

Thanks, brother! Cheers.

[philipag]

Chasing Duane's tone??

The speakers will be chicken feed compared to the 59 LP you're gonna have to pick up

Now THAT'S an experiment I'd like to try - use my same rig but swap out my R7 for Duane's 58 Cherryburst or 59 Darkburst. Hell I'll "settle" for the 61 LP/SG. ;) I'd probably be too busy soiling myself to actually play them, however. :bow

[porterburst]

Big Duane fan here, and have owned all the speakers associated with that Duane and Dickey’s tone....ER123's, all the JBL models, etc. Original cone 60's JBL D120F's are the closest to the famous Fillmore East tone. Cerwin Vegas may have been used during the end of 71, and the closing of the Fillmore East show. I sold my ER 123 years ago.

My favorite Duane tones are “Live At A&R studios where Duane and Dickey used Tweed or Brown Face Fenders as they used for recording “Blue Sky’ on the “Eat A Peach album, and the March Fillmore show.
The most important ingredient for getting both Duane and Dickey’s tone is the way you attack the strings, and amp setup.

[philipag]

Big Duane fan here, and have owned all the speakers associated with that Duane and Dickey’s tone....ER123's, all the JBL models, etc. Original cone 60's JBL D120F's are the closest to the famous Fillmore East tone. Cerwin Vegas may have been used during the end of 71, and the closing of the Fillmore East show. I sold my ER 123 years ago.

My favorite Duane tones are “Live At A&R studios where Duane and Dickey used Tweed or Brown Face Fenders as they used for recording “Blue Sky’ on the “Eat A Peach album, and the March Fillmore show.
The most important ingredient for getting both Duane and Dickey’s tone is the way you attack the strings, and amp setup.

Agreed. I believe Duane was still using JBL's (mixed with Celestions) for the LAFE recordings and switched to CVega later in 71. Just speculation, but maybe he switched to CV's when he switched guitars - he switched from the Cherryburst to the Darkburst in June '71 - and started using the LP/SG for open tuning slide around the same time. So maybe he just liked the sound of the Vegas with his new guitar(s)?

I'm pretty sure they used Tweed Bassman amps for the A&R show - the guy who sold Duane the Darkburst said when he delivered the guitar he also delivered a few 59 Bassman amps as well - that was in June of 71, A&R show was Aug 71.

The gear talk is fun - but I agree the biggest part is in the hands. This is proven out by just listening to Duane through his gear changes from '68-'71.
You get different flavors of tones - but it's always very clear who you're listening to.

[smolder]

I think the big reason to use jbl's and D120's is to minimize the speaker's effect on tone. They certainly are warmer than the E series, but altogether pretty transparent.

[philipag]

I think the big reason to use jbl's and D120's is to minimize the speaker's effect on tone. They certainly are warmer than the E series, but altogether pretty transparent.

Agreed - I've read comments that Dickey made that were very similar - something like they "hold the tone" of the amp and guitar even at high volume.
The Vegas have a little more crunch to them -which I like. I have a reconed JBL D120F and it sounds quite Dickey-ish. The Vega much more Duane.

[buzzp]

Thanks for all the detailed info guys- I know that I will never achieve the Duane tone unless I can learn to play slide like him. The general direction is all I'm looking for. Sounding like myself is inevitably going to happen because I have my own technique I like using.

But the JBL D120's are pretty key to the distortion break up right?

[philipag]

Thanks for all the detailed info guys- I know that I will never achieve the Duane tone unless I can learn to play slide like him. The general direction is all I'm looking for. Sounding like myself is inevitably going to happen because I have my own technique I like using.

But the JBL D120's are pretty key to the distortion break up right?

I'd say the amp is more important for that aspect - the JBLs don't break up much at all, the Vegas a little. If any speaker break-up is contributing to the tone I'd say that's more from the Celestions - he used them togther - one cab of JBL/Vega one of Celestions.

He played very loud and had 2 50 watt Marshall heads (probably 1986 bass heads) pushing the two cabs. He also used Y-cables to use both inputs on each head, which overdrives the pre-amp a bit. Getting the amps into overdrive is a big part of the tone - maybe the biggest. So use a Marshall or clone or something that sounds similar and either crank it way up or use an attenuator or power scaling to get that overdriven sound. On the clip I made the amp was up full blast.

[buzzp]

Yeah I don't have a Marshall right now- definitely the next amp on my list.

In the meantime- do you think replacing my celestion v30 is even worth doing?

[philipag]

It's hard to say without hearing your rig - but I don't think just swapping the V30 for a JBL or CV is going to have that great an impact - unless you're really close and you're fine tuning. I'd invest the dollars in a Marshall clone head assuming you have a guitar that sounds something close to a vintage Gibson. I love the Fargen head (it's a 25w Olde 800 that I converted to 1986 specs) I have - but there are a jillion good Marshall copies and a jillion threads here on TGP about them. Or maybe a pedal that emulates the plexi might have a greater impact than just changing one speaker. I don't have one but I was impressed with the Dirty Little Secret pedal clips I heard here.

[buzzp]

Thanks Phil- that definitely saved me 200+ bucks from getting a JBL right now haha.

[philipag]

Thanks Phil- that definitely saved me 200+ bucks from getting a JBL right now haha.

Cool - if you do decide you want to experiment I have a few speakers that I'd be willing to sell or trade. I have an original cone C Vega Er124, a JBL D120F reconed by edgewound and a Weber CV123 which is their copy of the CV ER123.

[edgewound]

Yep mixing C Vega ER 123s with Celestions or clones like Scumbacks is the ticket. He did use JBL D120's as well - but switched to the CV's sometime in 1971. This clip is a plexi Marshall 1986 clone into a 2-12 with a Scumnico and CV ER 123.

http://soundclick.com/share.cfm?id=11033437

Hey, Phil...

Very nice playing....awesome tone. I envy your slide skills.

[philipag]

Hey, Phil...

Very nice playing....awesome tone. I envy your slide skills.

Thanks so much, Ken. I think those old Vegas are real hidden gems - they just seem to sit right between the clarity of the JBL and the woody/gritty Celestion tone.

[SonicBoom]

Resurrecting a stale thread.

Hoping to get some input from Phil on the CVs and CV clones he's tried. I've got one ER-123 and a pair of G12M black back Celestions. I'd like to put together a "Duane" cab to go with my plexi RI.

Have you ever tried a 212 - 1 CV and 1 Celestion? Wondering if that would be close to a 412 mix in getting Duane's sound.

Also, would I be better off getting an ER124 to go with my ER123 or just get the weber 123 clone?

Thanks for any comments.

[philipag]

Resurrecting a stale thread.

Hoping to get some input from Phil on the CVs and CV clones he's tried. I've got one ER-123 and a pair of G12M black back Celestions. I'd like to put together a "Duane" cab to go with my plexi RI.

Have you ever tried a 212 - 1 CV and 1 Celestion? Wondering if that would be close to a 412 mix in getting Duane's sound.

Also, would I be better off getting an ER124 to go with my ER123 or just get the weber 123 clone?

Thanks for any comments.

That's similar to what I have, a 212 cab with ER 123 and a Scumnico - I've actually never even tried a 412 since the 212 gives me all the volume and tone I want. Of course Duane used two 412s and two 50w heads - and I imagine that set-up would get you even closer to his sound - but is just a tad
f'ing LOUD!

I would go with an original cone CV ER 124 over the weber. But if you already have a ER 123 and the Celestion you should be good to go. BTW my 212 is open back.

Good luck - let us know how it turns out. Cheers - Phil

[smolder]

Fwiw... On the local (Chicago) Craigslist there was a fender twin with a pair of orange CV's that wasn't selling. Can't find it today, but it may be worth watching for.

[porterburst]

Fwiw... On the local (Chicago) Craigslist there was a fender twin with a pair of orange CV's that wasn't selling. Can't find it today, but it may be worth watching for.


If the frames are orange they're ER-124's. ER-124's sound a little different compared to the ER-123's.

[SonicBoom]

Thanks, Phil. I was planning to put them in an open back cab, too. Excellent slide, btw. Damn fine tone. One concern I have is the power rating of the pair of speakers. The G12M is only rated at 25w and a Marshall 50 watter will exceed that easily. Not worried about the 123 handling it in a 212 though. Any issues with yours? How much power can your Scumnico handle?

If the frames are orange they're ER-124's. ER-124's sound a little different compared to the ER-123's.

Sound a little different in what way? I have a source for a 124, but I haven't pulled the trigger because I heard the same thing - that they sound different.


I've never seen an orange framed Cerwin Vega - JBLs, yes. If you mean the speaker cone surround, yes, the ER124's is orange.

[philipag]

Thanks, Phil. I was planning to put them in an open back cab, too. Excellent slide, btw. Damn fine tone. One concern I have is the power rating of the pair of speakers. The G12M is only rated at 25w and a Marshall 50 watter will exceed that easily. Not worried about the 123 handling it in a 212 though. Any issues with yours? How much power can your Scumnico handle?



Sound a little different in what way? I have a source for a 124, but I haven't pulled the trigger because I heard the same thing - that they sound different.


I've never seen an orange framed Cerwin Vega - JBLs, yes. If you mean the speaker cone surround, yes, the ER124's is orange.

The speaker that CV made that was an option in the Twin Reverb was the PS-12, which did have an orange frame. I have one and it does sound much more like the the ER 123 than the Weber clone does.

I think the Scumnico is a 30 watter, but my amp is 25w, not 50 so I haven't worried about the power, esp since it's paired with the CV.

[fulltone1989]

I found that a Jetter GSR through a Fender Deluxe got me into the D.A region, granted the guitar was an LP with WCR Fillmores

[SonicBoom]

The speaker that CV made that was an option in the Twin Reverb was the PS-12, which did have an orange frame. I have one and it does sound much more like the the ER 123 than the Weber clone does.


Interesting. Typical Fender - options, options, options. Uhh, at least when Leo owned it.

[philipag]

Interesting. Typical Fender - options, options, options. Uhh, at least when Leo owned it.

I think there was some falling out with JBL and for a while the CV made PS-12's were the upgrade speaker option. Think that was early 70's - so post Leo. They have orange frames and black, grooved magnet covers. Jammin Jersey has a supply of them NOS.

http://jamminjersey.com/speakers.php?prod=celestion

[porterburst]

Thanks, Phil. I was planning to put them in an open back cab, too. Excellent slide, btw. Damn fine tone. One concern I have is the power rating of the pair of speakers. The G12M is only rated at 25w and a Marshall 50 watter will exceed that easily. Not worried about the 123 handling it in a 212 though. Any issues with yours? How much power can your Scumnico handle?



Sound a little different in what way? I have a source for a 124, but I haven't pulled the trigger because I heard the same thing - that they sound different.


I've never seen an orange framed Cerwin Vega - JBLs, yes. If you mean the speaker cone surround, yes, the ER124's is orange.





















I've owned ER-123's,124's, PS12's, and original cone 60's D120F's, and they all sound different.




The Cerwin Vegas came in 8, 16, and 12 ohm versions, so be sure to get the right impendence for your amp.


The ER-123' s have paper surrounds with with a smaller aluminum dust cap which makes the speaker different sounding compared to the ER124's and PS12's. The 123's are brighter with more crunch with nice snap.



The dust caps is much larger on the ER124 than the PS12 which leads me to believe that the voice coil may be larger as well. The dust caps are not metal...paper or cloth if I remember correctly, and they also have different surrounds compared to the ER-123. The ER124/PS12 have more honk and are less bright compared to the ER123's.


The ER-123's are great for Duane's later slide and lead tone, but I prefer 60's original cone JBL D120F's for his overall tone, especially his Mountain Jam tone.

[philipag]

I've owned ER-123's,124's, PS12's, and original cone 60's D120F's, and they all sound different.




The Cerwin Vegas came in 8, 16, and 12 ohm versions, so be sure to get the right impendence for your amp.


The ER-123' s have paper surrounds with with a smaller aluminum dust cap which makes the speaker different sounding compared to the ER124's and PS12's. The 123's are brighter with more crunch with nice snap.



The dust caps is much larger on the ER124 than the PS12 which leads me to believe that the voice coil may be larger as well. The dust caps are not metal...paper or cloth if I remember correctly, and they also have different surrounds compared to the ER-123. The ER124/PS12 have more honk and are less bright compared to the ER123's.


The ER-123's are great for Duane's later slide and lead tone, but I prefer 60's original cone JBL D120F's for his overall tone, especially his Mountain Jam tone.

Wow - my Er 123's are original cone and have cloth dust caps, while my PS 12 has a small, alum dust cup. So I guess they made them both ways.

[SonicBoom]

Great info. The 124s that I've seen have a cloth surround and paper dust cap.

The 123 I have is an 8 ohm and has a metal dust cap. The G12Ms I have are 16 ohms, and the quad of D120s I have are all 8 ohms. Looks like I can only match up a JBL with the CV until I get an 8 ohm Celestion.

Does anyone know what the cone number is for the ER123? I'm curious if mine has an orig. cone.

[Tonefree]

Plus 1 on the cone number... I have an ER123 16 ohm with a paper cap. Would love to know if it's original paper.

[JL75]

I just picked up a 99 r7 and am putting Fillmores in it, with the 50s wiring harness, and I have a JCM 800 rebuilt for me by the great Don Butler. As far as speakers, I just ordered a V30, and Im told the CV 123f, and Scumback H75 are what I need for a Good Duane tone. As Ive read through this entire thread, I thought Id ask the guys here with experience with all these different speakers what they would invest in. Im very close to picking up the Weber CV 123f, but it seems a couple times throughout the thread its been mentioned that other speakers were closer.

[porterburst]

Cone code for original cone ER-123's should be 4083.

[buzzp]

JL75- while I'm not expert, I remember a good friend of mine speaking negatively about NEWER weber speakers... can't remember what that is. PM me and I'll get back to you when I hear from him.

[philipag]

I just picked up a 99 r7 and am putting Fillmores in it, with the 50s wiring harness, and I have a JCM 800 rebuilt for me by the great Don Butler. As far as speakers, I just ordered a V30, and Im told the CV 123f, and Scumback H75 are what I need for a Good Duane tone. As Ive read through this entire thread, I thought Id ask the guys here with experience with all these different speakers what they would invest in. Im very close to picking up the Weber CV 123f, but it seems a couple times throughout the thread its been mentioned that other speakers were closer.

I'd go with CV Er123's top choice, orig cone JBL D120's 2nd and distant third Weber.

[pgissi]

Is it worth changing my celestion v30 and g12h30 out to get "closer" to the duane tone? I have a budget keep in mind


the V30 has to be one of the worst speakers to get anywhere near dwayne tone

that upper mid screech will turn your slide playing into a million cats on a near vertical blackboard :omg

[philipag]

the V30 has to be one of the worst speakers to get anywhere near dwayne tone

that upper mid screech will turn your slide playing into a million cats on a near vertical blackboard :omg

LOL. For the Celestion part of the sound on a budget I'd go with WGS - Reaper 55, Green Beret or M75 - I think they're great speakers for the money - even without the value aspect - they're real good speakers. I have a Green Beret that I love.

[tmac]

I still have a Weber CV123 copy if you (or anyone else) is interested, 8 ohm

T

[JL75]

the V30 has to be one of the worst speakers to get anywhere near dwayne tone

that upper mid screech will turn your slide playing into a million cats on a near vertical blackboard :omg

Ha! I definitely dont want that. I didnt get the V30 for Duanes sound, just grabbed one because it seems theyre a decent all around speaker and as of right now I have these Eminence Speakers from '93 that are brand new but just not what Im lookin for. But I know the D120s are WAY expensive, so I wont be gettin those any time soon, and not sure about the price of the ER's yet, havent looked em up. I havent heard anything bad about the H75 Scumbacks yet, maybe Ill go that route.

[JL75]

tmac pm is on the way.

[philipag]

I have found another combination I really like for lower volume situations. I got an orginal cone JBL d110 and put in in a cab with a 12" Tayden Smooth. I hooked the cab to my Twister Dust Devil (about 10 watts) with the power scaling about 1/2 way up and let it rip. I'm using my PRS Mira.
http://soundclick.com/share.cfm?id=11461276

[buzzp]

I have found another combination I really like for lower volume situations. I got an orginal cone JBL d110 and put in in a cab with a 12" Tayden Smooth. I hooked the cab to my Twister Dust Devil (about 10 watts) with the power scaling about 1/2 way up and let it rip. I'm using my PRS Mira.
http://soundclick.com/share.cfm?id=11461276


That sounds really good!

[wec]

the V30 has to be one of the worst speakers to get anywhere near dwayne tone

that upper mid screech will turn your slide playing into a million cats on a near vertical blackboard :omg

Hmm...that's funny. Derek Trucks uses V30's in his PRS 4x12 cabinets. I'm guessing he can get closer to Duane's tone than someone who's not using V30's.

[philipag]

That sounds really good!

Thanks, bro. I was very pleasantly surprised - I never used a JBL 110 before and never mixed a 10" with a 12" - but I just love the tone. Duane was really onto something mixing the American and British sounding speakers. And a bonus is you can get a 110 for a lot less than a D120. I got a 10"-12" adaptor from Mojo and it worked great.

[Mars Hall]

Someone in the band was using JBL's, I'm guessing it was Duane.
http://i423.photobucket.com/albums/pp312/Mars-Hall/Duane%20Allman/l_8f7df5c759513d647eadcd60483fd7f5.jpg?t=126448144 2

[philipag]

Someone in the band was using JBL's, I'm guessing it was Duane.
http://i423.photobucket.com/albums/pp312/Mars-Hall/Duane%20Allman/l_8f7df5c759513d647eadcd60483fd7f5.jpg?t=126448144 2

Duane and Dickey were both using them at that point. Dickey never stopped - still uses them to this day. Duane switched to Vegas & Celestions at some point in 1971.

[smolder]

Hmm...that's funny. Derek Trucks uses V30's in his PRS 4x12 cabinets. I'm guessing he can get closer to Duane's tone than someone who's not using V30's.

I don't think Derek is coping Duane's tone with the brothers. And I doubt he's trying.

[buzzp]

I don't think Derek is coping Duane's tone with the brothers. And I doubt he's trying.



I don't think he sounds like Duane either?

[wec]

I don't think Derek is coping Duane's tone with the brothers. And I doubt he's trying.

I didn't say that Derek is coping Duane's tone or was even trying. I was making the point of how ridiculous it is to say that vintage 30's are terrible for slide. Regardless of whether he has Duane's tone or not, he still sounds better playing slide than anybody going after the correct "Duane tone."

[pgissi]

how ridiculous it is to say that vintage 30's are terrible for slide



yeah well your ridiculous is my truth

When we are talking V30's we are talking new prod MIC V30, I cant speak to MIE or older incarnations

[philipag]

Just started reading Johnny Sandlin's new book "Never Ending Groove". One gear tidbit - when he was in the Hourglass with Duane he had a tweed Bassman that Duane loved - but didn't find the stock speakers loud enough so replaced them with JBLs! So he was using JBL's long before the ABB.
Will post any more gear tidbits that I find....

[Stratoben127]

Fillmore was 2 4x12s with 2x Greenbacks and 2x Cerwin Vega JBL clones in each. The secret was that they had the tops of the back panels cut off for a half open back. Also, cranked Marshall 1986 bass heads help. He ran them with Y cables into both high inputs.

[edgewound]

Fillmore was 2 4x12s with 2x Greenbacks and 2x Cerwin Vega JBL clones in each. The secret was that they had the tops of the back panels cut off for a half open back. Also, cranked Marshall 1986 bass heads help. He ran them with Y cables into both high inputs.

Cerwin-Vega had a JBL clone?

Pictures please.

[philipag]

Cerwin-Vega had a JBL clone?

Pictures please.

Hey Ken,

Think he's referring to the CV ER123, which while somewhat JBLish, is by no means a clone.

[edgewound]

Hey Ken,

Think he's referring to the CV ER123, which while somewhat JBLish, is by no means a clone.

Hey Phil...

I guess any speaker with an aluminum dome often gets qualified to be a JBL clone...

[philipag]

Hey Phil...

I guess any speaker with an aluminum dome often gets qualified to be a JBL clone...

And mine don't even have aluminum domes! I think they are silk - but they did make an alum dome version.

[rongtr]

Yep mixing C Vega ER 123s with Celestions or clones like Scumbacks is the ticket. He did use JBL D120's as well - but switched to the CV's sometime in 1971. This clip is a plexi Marshall 1986 clone into a 2-12 with a Scumnico and CV ER 123.

http://soundclick.com/share.cfm?id=11033437

You brought a smile to my face with those licks! Thanks!

[philipag]

Glad you enjoyed the clip!

[JL75]

Fillmore was 2 4x12s with 2x Greenbacks and 2x Cerwin Vega JBL clones in each. The secret was that they had the tops of the back panels cut off for a half open back.


I dont see how in a room the size of the Fillmore how having an open or closed back is going to have any effect on the sound as far as the listener is concerned, especially when youre being mic'd. :huh

[JL75]

This clip is a plexi Marshall 1986 clone

Who made this amp??

[philipag]

Who made this amp??

It's a Fargen Olde 800 that I converted to 1986 circuit specs.

Regarding the open cabs - my understanding is that they went with open cabs because the pressure in a closed cab was too much for the JBLs and they kept blowing them up - so it may have not been about tone at all - at least at first.

[JL75]

Well, its not in a Marshall, right now these are in a reissue 65 twin reverb, but after a couple years of hunting, I finally got 2 original( one needed a recone) CV 123s!!!! Coupled with a G12 H30, as Im told by a former amp tech for the band is what Duane used. Sound is awesome. Havent tried the recone yet.

http://img685.imageshack.us/img685/5203/sdc11592k.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/685/sdc11592k.jpg/)

[Stratoben127]

I dont see how in a room the size of the Fillmore how having an open or closed back is going to have any effect on the sound as far as the listener is concerned, especially when youre being mic'd. :huh

It's not really room dependent. An open back cab will let more air, thus sound waves out the back, resulting in a less focused sound up front, which a mic will pick up. I don't know the exact specifics of it, but on Avatar Speaker's website, either the Traditional or Vintage style 2x12 cab explains how removing certain back panels affects the sound in different ways with reflections, ect. Basically, a closed back Marshall cab will have punchier, more direct and focused sound, while a partially open back cab will be a bit airier and open. Maybe the effects aren't noticeable if you're listening with normal headphones or speakers with MP3 quality, or if you don't know what to listen for, but if you listen to that album from a CD with good studio monitor headphones, you'll hear things you'd never imagine some of those mics could pick up.

[philipag]

Well, its not in a Marshall, right now these are in a reissue 65 twin reverb, but after a couple years of hunting, I finally got 2 original( one needed a recone) CV 123s!!!! Coupled with a G12 H30, as Im told by a former amp tech for the band is what Duane used. Sound is awesome. Havent tried the recone yet.

http://img685.imageshack.us/img685/5203/sdc11592k.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/685/sdc11592k.jpg/)

Congrats, bro! Those CV's are great speakers - worth the search for sure. They have such great sustain - even at low volumes - they must be very sensitive.
And Duane was definitely onto something combining CV's (or JBL's) with Celestions - they really compliment each other.

[JL75]

Yea, I mean the combination fires on all sonic cylinders. Reason I decided to throw them in a twin, if you listen back to when Duane was using fender guitars and fender amps, I dont know what speakers were in those amps, but he still sounds like Duane. As we all know during our quest in search of our own personal tone no matter what you do, you still sound like you. So I knew that if the speakers were good together, it wouldnt matter what I put them in. Im a bit of a nut for original equipment, but the other CV had a vc rub so I had to get it reconed to be useable. I havent heard it yet, but after doing some reading on recones, some believe these days reconing old speakers can make them sound better than they ever did so I might be doing a test this weekend. And after seeing what some of these were being sold for, I suppose because theyre rare, and in certain circles extremely valuable, I got both speakers plus shipping for $180!! It was well worth the couple days of verbal bashing I took from the wife. :boxer

[Whitesg38]

I picked one up a few years ago for about $300 dollars. It was a 12" @16ohms speaker and I put it in a Mesa thiele cab with a closed back. Sounds really good but I only have one amp that has a 16ohm speaker extension jack so I haven't used it too much. I am thinking about having it converted to a 8ohm speaker so I can use it with my other amps.