E-flat in hz?

Discussion in 'The Sound Hound Lounge' started by cdntac, Sep 20, 2011.

  1. cdntac

    cdntac Member

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2010
    Messages:
    543
    If 440 HZ is regular tuning --- does anyone know what HZ E-flat is?

    I've been looking on the 'Net to no avail. Or at least I'm not getting answers that make sense to me. ;)

    Thx!
     
  2. SGNick

    SGNick Member

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2007
    Messages:
    3,592
    440Hz is the frequency for A, not E.

    If you want to know the frequency of Eb with your A reference as 440, it would be 311Hz

    EDIT : A Natural E is 330Hz
     
  3. cdntac

    cdntac Member

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2010
    Messages:
    543
    So if a tuner is set to 440 hz for standard tuning....you could just adjust it to 311 hz for E-flat tuning?

    Or perhaps I'm misunderstanding how hz works in regards to tuning frequencies. ;)

    If that's the case I'll just stick with reading Eb, Ab, C#, etc. ;)
     
  4. DC1

    DC1 Member

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2006
    Messages:
    13,364
    Location:
    SoCal
    Tuners are set to standard concert pitch where A = 440hz.

    If you make A= 432hz (or any other reference) the tuner will offset all other pitches the same amount so your tuning scheme (equal temperament, etc) remains in the same ratios.

    Not all tuners can change their reference pitch.

    dc
     
  5. cdntac

    cdntac Member

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2010
    Messages:
    543
    So is there a reference pitch for tuning down half a step from normal pitch?

    Is the first person that responded to my question correct with his number?
     
  6. DC1

    DC1 Member

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2006
    Messages:
    13,364
    Location:
    SoCal
    You don't need one because 1/2 step down is a standard pitch. You just tune to Eb, Ab, Db etc.



    And there a good note to pitch chart here:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_pitch_notation

    You can check to see if they were right for yourself.


    dc
     
  7. ImmortalSix

    ImmortalSix Member

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2009
    Messages:
    1,971
    Location:
    Central Virginia
    Traditionally, the A4 (A, 4th octave) is 440 Hz.
    A physical law says that the frequency for the same note played one octave up will be doubled. For example, A5 will be 880 Hz.
    Due to this, splitting one octave into 12 logarithmic, equally-spaced intervals means that each note frequency is equal to the frequency of the previous (lower) semitone multiplied by the 12th root of 2, i.e. about 1.059463094359.
    This means that A sharp (or B flat) of octave 4 will be 440 x 1.059463094359 = 466.16 Hz
    In the same way, A flat (or G sharp) of octave 4 will be 440 / 1.059463094359 = 415.3 Hz Thanks to this, we can calculate all the frequencies for each semitone in the fourth octave (and by extension, in every octave, because we just have to multiply or divide these frequencies by 2 to get the values for adjacent octaves):

    • C 4: 261.63 Hz
    • C 4 sharp (or D 4 flat): 277.18 Hz
    • D 4: 293.66 Hz
    • D 4 sharp (or E 4 flat): 311.13 Hz
    • E 4: 329.63 Hz
    • F 4: 349.23 Hz
    • F 4 sharp (or G 4 flat): 369.99 Hz
    • G 4: 392 Hz
    • G 4 sharp (or A 4 flat): 415.3 Hz
    • A 4: 440 Hz
    • A 4 sharp (or B 4 flat): 466.16 Hz
    • B 4: 493.88 Hz
    The value you set in the microtonal adjustment of Melody/Harmony is a value in hundredths of semitone (cent). It means each semitone is logarithmically splitted into 100 parts.
    Increasing the note frequency by 1 cent means multiplying its frequency by the 1200th root of 2, i.e. 1.00057778950655.
    For example, if you insert an A4 (440 Hz) with a microtonal adjustment of +50 cents (a quarter tone), the resulting frequency for this note will be 440 Hz multiplied by the 50th power of the cents multiplier, i.e. (using ^ as power symbol): 440 x 1.00057778950655 ^ 50 = 452.89 Hz.

    By reversing the math above, knowing a frequency Z in Hertz, it is possible to calculate all values for the note:

    1200 x log(F/16.3515978312876)/log(2)= total number of cents from C0. We will call this number Y.

    - Divide the result Y by 1200. The integer part of this result is the octave number N for the note to play.
    - Calculate Y' by subtracting 1200 x N from Y.
    - Divide this value Y' by 100. The integer part of this result is S, the semitone number within the octave (0=C, 1=C#, 2=D, 3=D#, 4=E,...11=B)
    - Subtract 100 x S from Y'. You get M, the microtonal adjustment value in cents.

    For example, if we need a frequency Z of 310 Hz:
    Y = 1200 x log(310/16.3515978312876)/log(2)
    Y = 5093.72

    Octave (N) = integer part of Y/1200 = 5093.72/1200 = 4
    We subtract 4 x 1200 from 5093.72, which gives Y' = 293.72
    Semitone S = integer part of 293.72 / 100 = 2. The note to insert is a D (1=C#, 2=D, 3=D#).
    We subtract 100 x 2 from 293.72. The result is 93.72, rounded to M = 94 cents
    We will have to insert a D, 4th octave, with a microtonal adjustment of 94 cents.
    We can also obtain the same frequency by using a D#, 4th octave, with a microtonal adjustment of (94-100) = -6 cents.

    http://www.myriad-online.com/resources/docs/melody/english/microtone.htm
     
  8. ImmortalSix

    ImmortalSix Member

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2009
    Messages:
    1,971
    Location:
    Central Virginia
    Uh, if you tune a guitar in standard to A, then tuning a guitar one half step down you'd tune to, uh, um, uh, A flat

    A = 440 Hz
    A flat = 415.3 Hz
     
  9. qingcong

    qingcong Member

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2011
    Messages:
    711
    Location:
    Virginia

    Yeah man, I don't get why it needs to be so difficult.
     
  10. ImmortalSix

    ImmortalSix Member

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2009
    Messages:
    1,971
    Location:
    Central Virginia
    Yes, but please note that ~311 Hz is E FLAT, not A FLAT.

    If you are used to tuning your guitar starting at A using a tone of 440 Hz (which is A), and you want to do the same as usual, only one half step down, what you're really looking for is in fact not E FLAT, but A FLAT.

    A FLAT is 415.3 Hz.
     
  11. ImmortalSix

    ImmortalSix Member

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2009
    Messages:
    1,971
    Location:
    Central Virginia
    Haha, yeah, me neither

    Anyways, OP, you have about 6 different paths to success up there, enjoy.

    If you want to keep it simple, you can just tune to A440, then tune your D string to the 4th fretted note of the A string, and then...ah forget it :rotflmao
     
  12. lhallam

    lhallam Member

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2004
    Messages:
    13,982
    Location:
    Lost
    Notes are named by convention. Currently the standard in the US is 440 cycles per second = A. For sake of argument, that is your reference pitch.

    Well that depends:
    the Eb a tritone below A 440 is 311.13
    the Eb a diminished 5th above A 440 is 622.26

    What it sounds like is you want your tuner to think A = 415.30 which is really an Ab. If you have the right kind of tuner, it will adjust all the other pitches. More better would be to get a tuner such as a Strobostomp that will tell you all 12 pitches so you don't have to muck around with adjusting things.

    The internets is your friend:

    http://www.contrabass.com/pages/frequency.html

    I'm guessing you have a tuner that knows when you play your low E, it tells you if you are in tune.
    So tune the low E using the tuner, then put your finger on the 4th fret of the E string which is an Ab.
    Now using your ear, tune the open 5th string to that 4th fret (Ab) of the E string.
    Now tune the rest of the higher strings to the 5th string the standard way (5th fret except for tuning the B string which is the 4th fret of your G string).
    Now go back and retune the low E to the A string using the 5th fret.
    Now every string is 1/2 step lower.
     
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2011
  13. 27sauce

    27sauce Member

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2010
    Messages:
    13,328
    Location:
    San Antonio
    Tune your A string a minor third above the dial tone.
     
  14. DWB1960

    DWB1960 Member

    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2005
    Messages:
    22,131
    Location:
    SoCal by way of Boston
    311.127 is we want to get real anal about it.
     
  15. 3dognate

    3dognate Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2011
    Messages:
    2,672
    Location:
    Bloomington, IL
    Ha, I just use a chromatic tuner and tune Eb,Ab,Db,Gb,Bb,Eb (D#,G#,C#,F#,A#,D# Depending on how your tuner reads...)
     
  16. cdntac

    cdntac Member

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2010
    Messages:
    543
    See why I was getting baffled looking at sites online? ;)

    Obviously I didn't explain myself correctly with reference to tuning to E-flat in reference to 440 hz. I wasn't understanding that it's actually A that is 440 and a guitar is tuned to A.

    Before my initial post, in my mind it all makes sense: If regular tuning is 440 hz, then obviously tuning down half a step must be XXX hz.

    So by reading all the replies here (thanks everyone), tuning down half a step would equate to 415.3 hz?

    Now the only reason I'm asking is so I can have it in my tuner as A, C, etc --- instead of seeing Ab, C#, etc.

    Off into another direction ---- why do tuners have the hz adjustable if 440 is most commonly used?
     
  17. lhallam

    lhallam Member

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2004
    Messages:
    13,982
    Location:
    Lost

    Help us out, what kind of tuner do you have?

    Post a link.
     
  18. cdntac

    cdntac Member

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2010
    Messages:
    543
    I have a few... Korg Pitchblack, a Peterson V-Sam (via a seller here) and some other cheap Korg I think.

    I know how to use them all --- there's no issue there.

    But this hz question just popped into my mind today while using them.

    Granted, I am just assuming that the hz level can be adjusted. Maybe I'm wrong and they can just be changed a tiny bit for calibration.

    If that's the case then this whole thread is moot and I look pretty stupid. ;)

    When I was a teenager I remember having a $15 tuner and for reasons unknown to me, suddenly it dropped about half a step in regards to correct pitch.

    Being young and stupid, I just assumed it was broken, put it away and bought another.

    Years later I found it in a drawer, looked at it and started playing with it and discovered that somehow the calibration/adjustment for the hz had been changed.
     
  19. 27sauce

    27sauce Member

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2010
    Messages:
    13,328
    Location:
    San Antonio
    Why do you want it to say A, when its actually Ab? That doesn't make any sense to me.
     
  20. cdntac

    cdntac Member

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2010
    Messages:
    543

    My lack of attention to detail has occasionally caused me to look stupid at gigs when, not paying enough attention, I've tuned to (for example) A, when it should be Ab.

    So many years of tuning at regular pitch and now I'm starting to tune a half-step down (for the most part).

    And sometimes the mind just slips and I'll forget about the # or b that is necessary.

    Yes, my thought of calling Ab an A on my tuner might be stupid...but it was just an idea for simplicity.
     

Share This Page