ebay of the day: current bid $86,600; reserve still not met

Discussion in 'Guitars in General' started by wrxplayer, Apr 22, 2013.

  1. vanderkalin

    vanderkalin Member

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    I would take this over that mint 59 in the other thread. Just sayin'.
     
  2. loveme1965

    loveme1965 Three chords, no waiting! Silver Supporting Member

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    Nah, there is a maximum of $50 on auctions. http://pages.ebay.com/help/sell/fees.html
     
  3. 27sauce

    27sauce Member

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    Absolutely, thats always been a silly idea to me, "if its clean, it probably sounds bad...if its beat, it must sound great".

    The vintage as opposed to modern wiring thing has been blown out of proportion. Both types of wiring were used in the '50's.
     
  4. Dev...in

    Dev...in Low Voltage Silver Supporting Member

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    the bigsby holes let the extra tone in. Seriously cool looking guitar though.
     
  5. 67blackcherry

    67blackcherry Member

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    If I had that sort of $$$, I'd be all over that guitar.
    Great top, and it has tons of character.

    Yup - I'd be all over that.
     
  6. les strat

    les strat Member

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    Now that I think about it, me too.
     
  7. Jay-Bird

    Jay-Bird Senior Member

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    Vintage guitars that are dead mint clean haven't been played. That's not the rule but I'd say it's more the case. So ask yourself, why wasn't it played? Most likely because it wasn't good.

    Ever play one of those ultra cleanies? Not every good. Ever play a worn vintage guitar? Most times (not all) GREAT!
     
  8. 27sauce

    27sauce Member

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    Oh I get why people say it, but that idea assumes that every guitar has been given equal opportunity to be played, which is in no way true. I've played enough good and bad vintage guitars to know that there is no "likely" or "in most cases". Every guitar is different, that goes for super clean ones, and beat to **** ones.
     
  9. jtm622

    jtm622 Member

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    Not to be disagreeable, BUT - Keep in mind that the "Vintage" guitar market has been around for several decades now - so, it's long been common public knowledge as to their "worth" in the marketplace... Thank guys like George Gruhn for that...

    Moreover, the reality is that the vast majority of the pre-1961 Les Pauls in really good condition have been "culled-out" many years ago, and those particular LP's have taken up residence in the hands of people who well knew their value years ago, and who have guarded the condition of their investments down thru the years - probably more so than even the original owner did...
    Consequently, those particular "investment grade" guitars have remained in the same GOOD CONDITION that they were in when the vintage market became a reality those several decades ago...

    The point here is this: If you do come across a pre-1961 LP for sale that is ragged-out a bit, that guitar has been ragged-out FOR DECADES now - well before it's present value as a "vintage instrument" was known...
    And - the logical fact is this: It is presently in it's ragged-out condition because it was not taken care of in the first place - and not because somebody played the sh#t out of it because it sounded so much better than its contemporaries did...

    :)
     
  10. Rockinrob86

    Rockinrob86 Supporting Member

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    BUT, with all things being equal, if you were to say Rob, here is a room of guitars. You have to pick one of them. You can't play it first. You are going to be recording and going on tour with (insert dream band here...) and the (dream band) has excellent security, pick now!

    If I were looking at these two guitars, I would pick the beat one. Both the average gigging guitarist and the pro won't put up with a true dog for long. It takes sweat to eat into a finish like that, and a bedroom/couch warrior just isnt going to be able to do enough damage. A total hack wouldn't be able to gig for long. So if I'm looking at a mint guitar, I know right away that it hasn't been played much, or at least it hasnt seen the kind of playing that gets a guitar beat up (gigging). I don't know WHY it wasn't, only that it wasnt. Maybe a dentist bought it in 59, didnt know how to play it and an annoying guitar geek bought it from his dentist in 1972 and sold it for his house in 2005. Maybe it sucks. No way to tell.

    The road dog beat up guitar says that someone played it enough to give it some love marks. I can tell it wasn't left in a barn or something (the wear marks are play marks, not abuse).

    With no other facts to go on, I'm getting the ebay guitar!
     
  11. jtm622

    jtm622 Member

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    Well, OK...
    But then I guess that Bonnamassa, Clapton, Page, Slash, Rick Neilsen, McCartney, Betts, Allman, etc., etc., had to be ALL WRONG when they snatched up the ones that were in really GOOD CONDITION years ago instead of holding out for a really good one that featured "love marks" all over it....
    Like I said, the really good vintage LP's were culled-out YEARS ago...

    The ebay LP is 1/2 the price of one in good condtion for a lot of good reasons...
    (and that's not to even mention that there must be a lot of better reasons why it HAS NOT SOLD to date at 1/2 the price...)

    :)
     
  12. fritferret

    fritferret Member

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    wow, looking at the bid history is amazing.
     
  13. 27sauce

    27sauce Member

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    Under those circumstances I'm going with the clean '59. The '58 has a refret, and the description doesn't really go in to the details. I'm very particular about frets, are they huge? Was the fret board over planed? I've seen refrets ruin guitars by something being overdone.

    I know what I'm getting with the '59, fret/feel wise.
     
  14. Gasp100

    Gasp100 Supporting Member

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    Can a true 58 or 59 LP not be a good guitar?
    I mean, seriously, they are probably fairly close in spec -- even though so much was done by hand back then. With vintage you are paying for the QUALITY and AGE of the wood... something that just cannot be replicated now / new unless someone is sitting on a stockpile of amazing old wood. Even then, the wood hasn't actually been formed into a guitar yet ;)
    What would constitute a "dog" for a 58 LP of which there were only ~500 made?
    And, would it be something that an experienced luthier could not correct?
    I guess someone brought up that if the neck was re planed during re-fret it might affect the play-ability and tone, I could see that as one example.
     
  15. jtm622

    jtm622 Member

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    Yes, "quality" and "age" do play a part - BUT, not nearly as big a part as "psychology" plays in the vintage market...
    Seriously - at what point in a price tag of $250K do "quality" and "intrinsic value" part company???

    :)
     
  16. 27sauce

    27sauce Member

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    Well, I don't have much Burst experience, aside from playing them in shops/stores. I have a lot of '52-'57 Gold top, Junior, Special, Custom, early SG experience, and there are most definitely good ones and not so good ones.

    I've been through a bunch of '59 Juniors, and have had only one keeper, my first one, interestingly. Some just didn't sound good. There was one that felt great, and I swapped everything I possibly could, even the electronics from my keeper, and it still sounded bad. It was too lively, uncontrollable, very light. Every note would sustain to a the harmonic almost instantly.

    I remember when the Pete Green burst was at the Arlington show and people got to play it. Guys with a lot of burst experience commented on how unspectacular it was, not a standout, and its beat to hell. I've heard the same about the Perry burst. Billy couldn't sell it when he owned it in the early 80's, no one wanted it.
     
  17. jtm622

    jtm622 Member

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    Back when I was a punk pimply-faced teenager, I actually owned a '53 Goldtop, a '54 Goldtop, and a 'Burst (the model years of the two goldtops are easy to determine, but whether the "Burst" was a '58, a '59, or a '60 is up in the air - 'cause nobody paid much attention to details like the "year of manufacture" and the "flame" on the maple top back in those days, so I don't really know which year it was manufactured; they were simply called "used guitars" back then...) That said, the "coolest" one to own back then was the black 3-pickup LP Custom - man, you had definitely "cut a fat hog in the ass" if you had one of those, as they were as scarce as hen's teeth...
    This was before the term "vintage" was in widespread use, however...

    Anyhow, the absolute truth is that I really don't remember those old 1950's LP's sounding any better or any worse than the "good" ones you can find brand new on the shelf today...

    But then, maybe the intervening years have improved those old guitars to the point where you can hear a distinct difference today... I have real doubts, however, that the difference is anywhere but in the ear of the beholder... :)

    IMO, the "amplifier" is what always has the greatest sonic impact on the sound of ANY guitar...

    Try an experiment: run an old LP thru a Marshall Plexi-face, and then run that same guitar thru a Marshall Vintage Modern...
     
  18. killer blues

    killer blues Member

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    those guitars were renowned back in the late '60's when they were only 10 yrs old. So age can't really be a factor. My '97 R7 is 16 yrs old and it sounds as good as the day I bought it.
     
  19. xjojox

    xjojox Gold Supporting Member

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    The best guitars ever made are being made right now.

    There were lots of beautiful accidents in those days, many of which became apparent in the 70's when things changed due to corporate involvement in the music industry. The whole vintage craze started out because the pre-CBS Fenders and pre-Norlin Gibsons were percieved as better instruments. But fast forward sixty years, and you have luthiers who know so much more about wood, construction techniques, pickups, etc. than anyone knew back then. No one at the Fender factory in 1954 was tapping on wood, comparing the weight and resonance of different batches of swamp ash, or anything like that. Leo just went to the lumberyard. Likewise for Gibson.

    I drool over these guitars just like anyone else, but mostly because they are a piece of history. I can make music just fine with modern instruments.

    Having said that... I want it!!!!
     
  20. 27sauce

    27sauce Member

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    It really gets in your head. I became obsessed with these guitars when they were already well out of my price range. I have seen plenty of guitars go from old to vintage collectible in the last 20 years. I'm in to the hobby, collector, enthusiast aspect about it, but I'm also a musician, so the thing has to work. I got the green light from my wife on a project burst a couple of years ago. It was cheap, and had been for sale for a while. Long list of issues. I was so excited to be that close to getting a dream guitar, but talked my self out of it. It was silly, a terrible idea. I'm really glad I didn't do it. I'd still like to keep my ~$1000 out of pocket limit. Thats the fun part to me, buying cheap, trading up, flipping. I love it. There are great guitars being made now, but the lore, mystique, and outright coolness of vintage guitars is so attractive to me. I like to find them though, you don't "find" something on ebay, so I'm out on this one.:love:

    You are absolutely right about the amp thing. When I learned that, my whole way of thinking changed.
     

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