Fender Supersonic 22 vs 60 combo vs 60 Head

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs' started by Myxolidian, Jan 11, 2011.

  1. Myxolidian

    Myxolidian Member

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    Can anybody tell me the differences between the latest gen Fender Supersonic?

    The 22 combo uses 3 12ax7 and 2 12at7 preamp tubes.
    The 60 combo uses 6 12ax7 and 2 12at7 preamp tubes.
    The 60 head uses 5 12ax7 and 1 12at7 preamp tubes.

    :dunno

    Is the 22 using a solidstate effects loop vs a tube buffered loop on the 60? Does the lack of reverb on the head account for the tube count difference vs the 60 combo?
     
  2. hollowbodyhead

    hollowbodyhead Member

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    Not sure about the 22, but, you are correct about the tube count and lack of reverb on the head vs the combo
     
  3. ruger9

    ruger9 Supporting Member

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    Bumping this for info, being recently interested in the SS 22.

    The older 60W version has 3 more 12AX7s than the 22W version.... the schem is on the Fender site for both amps, but I can't read schems, so I'm guessing that 1 of those 12AX7s on the 60W were for fx send & return. The 60W had controls on the back to adjust the send & return levels, and I seem to remember this being a tube-bufferd fx loop. So the 22W has a solid-state, non-adjustable, fx loop.

    Now, that still leave 2-12AX7s. I have no clue. I thought maybe the reverb on the 22W was also solid-state for drive & recovery, but someone on another forum says they read the schem & the reverb drive & recovery on the 22W is indeed tube.... but that still leaves an "extra 2s" 12AX7 the 60W has that the 22W doesn't, so I'm not convinced... it sure looks to me like the reverb on the new 22W is solid-state drive & recovery.

    Can anyone who can read schematics have a look and tell us if the reverb drive & recovery is tube on the 22W?

    http://support.fender.com/schematics/guitar_amplifiers/Super-Sonic22_schematic.pdf
     
  4. ruger9

    ruger9 Supporting Member

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    Here's the original 60W combo tube functions for comparison:

    Fender Supersonic Tube Assignments

    V1 –12AX7- V1A is the input stage, V1B is the first gain stage of the drive channel (between gain1 and gain2)

    V2 -12AX7- Used in the Clean channel. V2A is the usual BF-type post tonestack/volume stage. after that, there is the preshaping filter (part of the Vibrolux/Bassman-switching) followed by V2B as a buffer stage

    V3 -12AX7- Used in the Burn channel as second (V3A) and third (V3B) gain stage, followed by the tone stack and master volume

    V4 -12AX7- V4A is a buffer stage after the switching relay between clean and burn. V4B is the effects loop send buffer stage

    V5 -12AX7-Effects Loop - V5A is the effects loop return buffer stage, V5B is the reverb mixer stage

    V6 12AT7 Phase Inverter

    V7 6L6GC Power Section
    V8 6L6GC Power Section

    V9 12AT7 - Reverb send stage

    V10 12AX7 - Reverb makeup/buffer
     
  5. ruger9

    ruger9 Supporting Member

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    ok, more digging gave me this from the Fender forum:

    Super-Sonic 22

    V1 is for both channels
    V2A is for the burn channel, V2B is (recovery/buffer) for both channels
    V3 is the reverb driver (12AT7)
    V4A is reverb recovery, V4B is another gain stage for both channels (some kind of additional recovery/buffer)
    V5 is PI (12AT7)

    If this is true, Fender as eliminated several tube stages in this amp, yet kept the tone very similar? Have they replaced some tube stages with solid state stages or something? (besides the fx loop)? Do they have solid state buffer stages in this thing, or what?
     
  6. ruger9

    ruger9 Supporting Member

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    Someone on another forum read both schems, and came up with this for the 22:

    v1a (12ax7) Both channels (1st gain stage for BOTH channels)
    v1b (12ax7) Volume on Vintage or Gain1 on Burn

    v2a(12ax7) Gain2 Burn
    v2b(12ax7) Both Channels (recovery/buffer?)

    V3a & V3b (12at7) Reverb Drive

    V4a &V4b(12ax7) Reverb Recovery

    V5a & V5b (12at7) Phase Inverter

    ...which means, (besides making the fx loop opamp instead of tube), Fender seems to be using fewer tubes, more efficiently by "sharing" gain stages (V1b for example) instead of just adding more tubes like in the 60.
     
  7. itgoesto11

    itgoesto11 Member

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    So here's a question as I just picked up a Supersonic 22...I have 2 nice preamp tubes laying around- a TAD 7025s (select) and a JAN-Phillips 5751. Which would you stick in V1 and which in V2. Clearly the 5751 is a cleaner tube, giving more headroom. Thoughts?
     
  8. shooto

    shooto Supporting Member

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    good info
     
  9. mangoman

    mangoman Gold Supporting Member

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    not gonna comment on tube compliment or anything, but I bought a Supersonic 60 Combo, based on playing the head through a mesa 4x12 cab at lowish volume.

    I sold it as it never sounded as good as the head with that cab. Saw Mellencamp's guitarists were both playing Supersonic heads with the matching 2x12. SOUNDED GREAT!!!

    Get the head and a cab. Wont go wrong.
     
  10. cap47

    cap47 Member

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    The 7025 is good in V1 or V2. I never liked 5751! YMMV!
     

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