Kahler vs. Floyd

Discussion in 'Guitars in General' started by Drkorey, Mar 5, 2008.

  1. Drkorey

    Drkorey Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2006
    Messages:
    68
    Anyone ever had any probs. with a Kahler with Floyd type locking nut? I owned a guitar briefly with one and thought it did just as well as the floyds I've got. I'm looking at a new guit with one, and besides keeping the rollers well oiled any other issues to be concerned with?
     
  2. Cymbaline

    Cymbaline Member

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2006
    Messages:
    3,182
    Location:
    Charlotte, NC
    I used to have one, I had sustain problems with the rollers. I'd play a note, and it would just die after a few seconds. I nearly wore the Kahler completely out though, that's probably part of it.
     
  3. walterw

    walterw Gold Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2006
    Messages:
    21,777
    there's a reason kahler lost the locking trem wars of the '80s to floyd rose. they robbed attack and sustain from the guitar, and unless they were constantly adjusted and lubed, they wouldn't even return to perfect pitch, the whole point of butchering your guitar for a locking trem in the first place!

    when kahler came out with this,
    [​IMG]
    it was their admission of defeat. (a pity, because the kahler steeler was one of the best floyds around.)
     
  4. Unburst

    Unburst Member

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2004
    Messages:
    4,227
    Location:
    Portland, OR
    Kahler are the worst sounding of the trem bridges, closely followed by the Steinberger.
     
  5. KCWM

    KCWM Member

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2007
    Messages:
    4,523
    Location:
    N Richland Hills, TX
    I currently have a japanese fender strat with an original floyd rose bridge. I used to own a japanese fender double fat strat with a kahler bridge...spyder I think, or something close to it.

    I had nothing but issues with the Kahler. Granted, the strings were easier to change, but it only took the first set to get pretty quick at the Floyd. It does take longer than a guitar with a regular bridge. That's why I'm getting rid of it.

    I'd take a floyd rose over a kahler any day based on that one experience. A little closeminded, but you go with what works for you.
     
  6. Cymbaline

    Cymbaline Member

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2006
    Messages:
    3,182
    Location:
    Charlotte, NC
    The Kahler Spyder is a great trem. I have a '87 MIJ Strat with one and it works flawlessly, always comes back in perfect tune even after I dump it all the way until the strings flop. The only issue I have with it is it doesn't do that "flutter" effect very well when you flick the bar.
     
  7. KenRothman

    KenRothman Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2007
    Messages:
    157
    Location:
    Cambridge, MA
    sorry for the threadcrap, but i'm just imagining what this forum would be like if it had existed when i started playing, back in '86/87... this would have been a common topic!
     
  8. Halowords

    Halowords Member

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2008
    Messages:
    936
    I am not so sure on that. There are some pro's that use them (i.e. Jerry Cantrell, Kerry King from Slayer [I believe that's his name, the one who's bald now], Les Claypool, a few others). A lot of guitarists on the amateur level prefer them. I have heard there are differences in models; some are better than others. Going from memory, some have also reported the steel ones sound better than the brass, or vice versa, and that sustain issues may be a result of one or the other (brass or steel) or not having the rollers oiled.

    I would not discount Kahler trems as a general rule. There are a lot of people who love them as much as, or more than, Floyd Rose tremolos.

    -Cheers
     
  9. peedenmark7

    peedenmark7 Member

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2006
    Messages:
    32
    the kahler lock nut does not work.
    too many binding points.

    think about it and read before you argue....

    first you have the distance between the actual nut and the locknut which is a friction point , as well as the fact that most manufacturers back in the day did not take the time to properly shim up the nut to proper height , so you also have an angle pinch point as well...
    further.... kahler did not make different spacing locknuts as did floyd...

    so you put a kahler locknut which is designed for a 1 5/8ths nut width on a guitar with 1 11/16ths or wider and you now have the high and low E strings rubbing on the outer most sides of the locknut , not to mention you've created a side to side binding point in the actual nut by now spreading the string wider in such a short distance between the nut and locknut.

    now lets get to the bridge . the bridge also has binding points...
    the first being the roller saddles ...the strings eventually wear a comfort spot into the brass rollers as well as the stainless ones.
    next you have the distance from the roller to the string claw another binding point.
    lastly you have the string claw the biggest defect in a locking system... the ball end of the string is allowed to move freely since it is not clamped... the ball does rotate and in turn the guitar will go out of tune.




    so there are far too many critical binding points which in my opinion is a complete design flaw...
    there was at one point a special kahler string where the ball end was soldered to prevent stretching...

    to this day I still solder all my guitars strings that arent on a double locking trem set up.
    dont laugh it works.

    NOW.... the kahler "zero fret" locknut was a pretty cool idea...
    it was basically a floyd style locknut, BUT it had a string retainer built in so a behind the nut retainer wasnt necessary...
    that nut works and works well !

    only drawback was it was made of cheap sh!T pot metal like a hot wheel...
    so... you over tighten and the clamping block holes strip out real fast.


    there is a reason kahler went out of business once... why someone would have brought that line back from the grave is beyond me as they will eventually fail again.

    there is only one locking trem that works...and thats a floyd...

    HOWEVER, I do understand how some folks like the free float and spongy feel of a kahler and the easy intonation process...

    I dont... but thats what makes the world go round.

    if a kahler is equipped with the heavier springs and the zero fret locknut I have no problem using one ... BUT I am a floyd guy if a locking trem is in order.
     
  10. lbenf

    lbenf Member

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2005
    Messages:
    68

    Exactly my experience as well with a Kahler on an old Hamer Special that I sold.

    Love my FR Speedloader!!
     
  11. Dendog

    Dendog Member

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2006
    Messages:
    240
    Floyd. Superior design. For a locking system, I reallly don't see how you could argue against that.
     
  12. JUSTJOB

    JUSTJOB Member

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2006
    Messages:
    2,418
    Location:
    USA
    I definately prefer the Floyd as well. There is nothing like a properly set up Floyd for tuning stability. A very well thought out and designed trem.
    Best Regards!
     
  13. deoreo

    deoreo Member

    Joined:
    May 15, 2007
    Messages:
    261
    Ok, I love double locking floyd type set-ups (to me the Ibanez edge is the best.)

    However, a floyd type cannot do one thing - that is transpose all of the strings to a different pitch, ie: a chord will stay in tune as you use the trem. Only the Steinberger transtrem can do this.

    The only other designs that could potentially do this are the Washburn Wonderbar, and Kahler.

    See these clips to hear the transposing feature:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U-rjLQM4mMg

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NOZ1fuXJub8
     
  14. Mikey2201

    Mikey2201 Member

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2007
    Messages:
    1,224
    Location:
    Philadelphia, PA
    WOW - look at all the kahler bashing. I have had 4 Kahlers (I still have 3) and 3 original floyds. I would never trade my kahlers. I don't know about sustain problems becuase I never had any. My kahler equipped guitar will rival my LP for sustain. Floyds suck sustain and tone. The Floyd rose locking nut is superior to kahlers behind the nut clamp I agree. But the unit itself is excellent I dive bomb and regularly abuse it and it come right back to pitch. They are different and must be handled differently.

    It is far more adjustable then the floyd and does not rob the tone that the floyd does. Kahlers are bolted right to the guitar, where look at all the wood lost to rout a floyd. I sold my floyd equipped guitars. I jumped for joy when kahler came back.
     
  15. Dendog

    Dendog Member

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2006
    Messages:
    240
    If you're concerned about playing in tune, Floyd wins hands down. It isn't personal.
     
  16. acwild

    acwild Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2007
    Messages:
    1,845
    Location:
    Hillsborough, NJ
    I had two Kahlers. When adjusted right, I had no tuning or sustain issues. The workmanship on those things were top-notch. What I didn't like was the feel. Way too spongy. All I kept thinking about was retrofitting my two Kahler guitars with Floyds. Ultimately I sold them instead.
    Once set up, I think it's just a matter of personal preference.
     
  17. carbz

    carbz Member

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2006
    Messages:
    3,778
    The one thing no one has mentioned is the feel. Though I like Floyd Rose system in general the tension is to tight for my taste. I like a looser feel for more subtle use which the Kahler offers. My favorite trem though is the Hipshot. Though it is not a locking system it feels great, mounts very flush to the body and actually stays in tune pretty dam good if set up right.
     
  18. teddy boy

    teddy boy Member

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2005
    Messages:
    1,751
    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    Never heard of Kahler but Flyod is great. Especially Wish You Were Here!







    Hah!
     
  19. Mikey2201

    Mikey2201 Member

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2007
    Messages:
    1,224
    Location:
    Philadelphia, PA
    Dendog wrote: If you're concerned about playing in tune, Floyd wins hands down. It isn't personal.Today 04:58 AM

    I did not mean to imply it was personal.

    I have NEVER have been concerned about playing in tune w/ kahler. Floyd does not win hands down. Kahler does imho.

    When a kahler is properly set up ( which is easy) you can beat the hell out of it and it will always be in tune. Now speaking from experience if the springs are starting to go you will have tuning problems but even under heavy abuse they last for a very long time. My first kahler was on a 1983 BC Rich which I bought used and the srpings were shot, but once the springs were replaced( which only took a few minutes) it was perfect.

    Kahlers have much better tone, WAY more funtionality and are very well built. Again IMHO some people prefer Floyds and that is why they make strawberry, rocky road and chocolate, everyone likes something different.
     
  20. jetydosa

    jetydosa Silver Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2007
    Messages:
    2,735
    Location:
    Atlanta GA
    You guys need to ditch both your Kahlers AND Floyds for the true best...Washburn WONDERBAR!!! Yeah! ;-)
     

Share This Page