The Cheaper Marshall 4-12's?

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs' started by zombiwoof, Nov 25, 2008.

  1. zombiwoof

    zombiwoof Supporting Member

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    What's the difference besides the cheaper speakers between the Marshall MG and MC series 4-12 cabs and the classic 1960 cabs? Different wood? Are they the same size? Are they made in Asia or something?

    They're half the price of the 1960's, and I've always wondered if they're any good.

    Al
     
  2. SatelliteAmps

    SatelliteAmps Member

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    The MG and MC are made of MDF (aka particle board). The 1960 cabinets are made of baltic birch plywood. Huge difference in tone, and in quality. The 1960 cabs are worth the extra money.

    I also think the MG's are a tad smaller than the 1960 cab.
     
  3. Eagle1

    Eagle1 Member

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    MDF is not particle board, it is medium density fiberboard and more like thick hardboard but you defiantly right about the 1960s being worth the extra ,(although these have particle board backs on all but the HW series since 1973.
     
  4. 908SSP

    908SSP Gold Supporting Member

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    Sorry MDF, particle board, medium density flux capcitor... it is all junk. The 1960 cabs JCM800 and older are worth the extra money.
     
  5. SatelliteAmps

    SatelliteAmps Member

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    My point wasn't to differentiate between them, but to add that people refer to the MG & MC cabs as particle board.

    To be exact, particle board is a type of MDF, but usually with larger pieces, more loosely packed. Both suck for tone cabinets.
     
  6. Chuck King

    Chuck King Member

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    The differences in cabinet material pale in comparison to the differences in speakers. The cheaper cabinets do NOT have Celestion G12T-75s in them. I opened up one of those lower-line Marshall cabinets once, and the speakers did have "Celestion" stickers on their little bitty magnets, but they were not the kind of Celestions anyone thinks of when they hear that name.

    If you can get to a Guitar Center or some such place, it probably would not be too much work to side-by-side one of the cheaper cabinets and a 1960.
     
  7. Eagle1

    Eagle1 Member

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    MDF and Particle board are not the same ,and MDF is used in Hi Fi speakers ,even some high end ones.
    Differentiating between the construction will help with your choice ,won't it?
     
  8. zombiwoof

    zombiwoof Supporting Member

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    Thanks to all for the info, I suspected they weren't ply, cheap speakers couldn't explain the huge price difference.

    Funny thing, back in the eighties, I knew a guy who was a metal guitar player who claimed that he and many of his fellow metal buddies preferred 4-12 cabs made out of comp material, thought they sounded better for his type of music. I had never heard of that before.

    Al
     
  9. Eagle1

    Eagle1 Member

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    All those JCM800 cabs have particle board backs.
     
  10. SatelliteAmps

    SatelliteAmps Member

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    MDF and Particle Board are similar, and even related, as already stated. Also explained how they were different. Didn't claim they were the same.

    Both are used in both hi-fi and guitar and bass amplifier products.

    Marshall started using particle board backs in the 1970s, prior to the JCM800 range.
     
  11. SatelliteAmps

    SatelliteAmps Member

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    1960 cab's come with a huge variety of speakers. A lot of the great ones don't have G12T-75s either. A lot have G12-65's, G12H-30s, G12M-25s, etc. G12T-75s are only one of many possibilities. A very few of the MG cab's came with Vintage 30s, but most do have cheaper speakers in them.
     
  12. sliberty

    sliberty Member

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    On the other hand, I wouldn't touch a cab with GT12-75's in it either. I hate those mid-scooped tones. I much prefer V30, Greenbacks, G12H-30's, and even CL-80's.



     
  13. sliberty

    sliberty Member

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    Not sure, but I think I had heard that the MG's often come with Rocket 50's. Can anyone confirm?
     
  14. mark norwine

    mark norwine Supporting Member

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    Just my opinion....discard as you see fit:

    I'd avoid any cab that's labled "280W" because it contains 4 x G12M-70. What an awful speaker!
     
  15. Eagle1

    Eagle1 Member

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    Yes in 1973 like I said :BITCH.And you are still wrong about MDF (a cardboard type derivative as opposed to particle board ,just wood chips glued together TOTALLY DIFFERENT.:jo
     
  16. siore

    siore Member

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    MDF and particle board both fall under fiberboards, which are just pressed wood made from wood by-products. MDF is just that. Medium density, and it's denser than particleboard.

    All these materials, particle board, MDF, baltic birch plywood, will each have their resonant (hence, acoustic) properties. So one is not necessarily better than the others, it just depends on your application.

    In terms of durability, any engineering material will have a structural weakness. You just have to work around it and reinforce those weaknesses. Design and build the joints accordingly, and treat a material that needs to be treated more extensively.

    Sorry if I'm a little off-topic. IMO, it's the combination of materials, design, and construction (factor in cost if you want) that make or break a good cabinet. To say that one is junk, based only on the material used, is just wrong to me.
     
  17. jtm622

    jtm622 Member

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    Absolutely... and the tonal characteristics of the speaker(s) inside are the most important part of any cabinet... Also, remember that MDF is inherently more "consistent" from sheet to sheet than plywood is; and the predictable consistency of the components involved in making a cabinet is critical to "engineering" a speaker cabinet for mass production...
     
  18. Eagle1

    Eagle1 Member

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    OK guys ever lined up a row of different 4x12s all with vintage 30s?
    you'd never believe they where the same speakers.
     
  19. III

    III Member

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    Why does Marshall keep coming out with cool colored MG stacks? White, Red, Faun, and now Purple... but no cool colored 19060A, AX, TV, HW... etc? Can't buy the cheap (wood and $$$) cabs seperate anywhere I've seen. Would be fun, but maybe not cost effective, to load 'em with your speaker of choice.

    So the new VM cabs are Dark Purple and they had the rad Limited Silver DSL with awesome Large Checker cab with Black logos... but c'mon Marshall, put out some colored higher end cabs... and make some metal replacement handles for 'em...
     
  20. SatelliteAmps

    SatelliteAmps Member

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    First off, calling me a BITCH is pretty pathetic.

    Second, you talked about JCM800 cabs which weren't made in 1973.

    Third, I'm still correct. Look it up. MDF, Hardboard (sometimes pushed into the Hard Density Fiberboard category, but not always), Particle Board, Oriented Strand Board (OSB, which tends to have more large fiberous strands) are all made from waste wood particles and glue. The main difference is the size of the particles and the compression of them. TOTALLY SIMILAR.

    Next time you want to correct me, feel free to bring any proof to the table.
     

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