New Gustavsson guitars at Wildwood

[Blauserk]

I see several guitars billed as "Gustavsson" guitars at Wildwood, but the prices are less stratospheric than I'd expect for the ones built by Johann himself. These must be PBG guitars; I see they say on the back of the headstock that they're built in Arroyo Grande, California.

http://www.wildwoodguitars.com/produ...egoryID=10&n=5

http://www.wildwoodguitars.com/produ...goryID=10&n=11

http://www.wildwoodguitars.com/produ...goryID=10&n=10

[fretnot]

They are PBG built.

[Jim Soloway]

I love this one

[Route234]

"they're built in Arroyo Grande, California"

Thats the PBG "signature".

The black and tan one and the black and tan Phoenix look incredible. They did a great job on that finish!

[beorn]

I'm sure they're great guitars, but this sort of thing is exactly why I'm not crazy about PBG in its current form.

Misunderstandings about who actually made the guitar are bound to occur when you leave the branding on the front exactly the same.

I bet by now there's been at least one unhappy guy who made such a purchase -- probably online, where the PBG part is obscured in the text, and the well-known luthier is played up.

Lots about Jason. Not a word about PBG or Baker.

[sfarnell]

Originally Posted by beorn

I'm sure they're great guitars, but this sort of thing is exactly why I'm not crazy about PBG in its current form.

Misunderstandings about who actually made the guitar are bound to occur when you leave the branding on the front exactly the same.

I bet by now there's been at least one unhappy guy who made such a purchase -- probably online, where the PBG part is obscured in the text, and the well-known luthier is played up.

Lots about Jason. Not a word about PBG or Baker.

You have a good point about a JG designed guitar built by Baker. But it's a different story with other PBG vendors. Two Rocks are still designed and built by the same people. It's merely the marketing that is different with different ownership. PBG is willing to put the resources into marketing in a way that the original owners were not willing to do.

[amc]

Originally Posted by beorn

I'm sure they're great guitars, but this sort of thing is exactly why I'm not crazy about PBG in its current form.

Misunderstandings about who actually made the guitar are bound to occur when you leave the branding on the front exactly the same.

I bet by now there's been at least one unhappy guy who made such a purchase -- probably online, where the PBG part is obscured in the text, and the well-known luthier is played up.

Lots about Jason. Not a word about PBG or Baker.

the ebay listing starts with large capital letters PBG.
you obviously are aware of the pbg story.
the potential serious buyers browsing wildwood's site (or ww's ebay listings) planning to purchase this pbg/schroeder radio lane are aware of the pbg factory in arroyo grande that builds these fine instruments.

i can't imagine a serious buyer of such an esoteric boutique guitar that sells for thousands
of dollars not being somewhat knowledgeable regarding such instruments.

[whitepapagold]

Thats some seriously shady marketing...

They are 100% using the reputation to sell guitars built by someone else.

And if the guitars are great, then they should stand on their own 2 feet... But nobody wants a fake Gustavsson that actually says "fake gustavsson" on the guitar- ie PBG.

There is NO question every single one should have PBG on the headstock... made in Arroyo Grande aint the same thing at all...

Pathetic.

The ENTIRE point of buying a Gustavsson is that HE built it...

[Route234]

Originally Posted by whitepapagold

Thats some seriously shady marketing...

They are 100% using the reputation to sell guitars built by someone else.

And if the guitars are great, then they should stand on their own 2 feet... But nobody wants a fake Gustavsson that actually says "fake gustavsson" on the guitar- ie PBG.

There is NO question every single one should have PBG on the headstock... made in Arroyo Grande aint the same thing at all...

Pathetic.

The ENTIRE point of buying a Gustavsson is that HE built it...

I dont think its that clear cut at all. Gustavsson is not selling guitars for 3k or less and those guitars are clearly his designs. There is nothing nerfarious about selling a nice guitar for 2-3k. I dont think anyone who is in this realm buying these kinds of guitars isnt aware. Made in Arroyo Grande is enough. If someone brought a guitar with "Made in Arroyo Grande" and thought it was made by Gustavsson himself they would have to be asleep at the wheel. None of these builders builds there or has ever built there. You can tell pre PBG Fanos from post PBG Fanos and I think Dennis Fano is still making those or directly involved with PBG or something.

I guess you can argue that they should put PBG someplace, but I think the argument that its some kind of shady deal is a moot point. People know who is doing what at this point. You would just have to be under a rock or lazy or something just to drop 3k on something and have no clue what it is or isnt.

[korby]

I never got that whole PBG thing ?

[esoteric pete]

a good guitar is a good guitar, guys.

if these are good guitars...wel, then they are good guitars.

[Route234]

Originally Posted by esoteric pete

a good guitar is a good guitar, guys.

if these are good guitars...wel, then they are good guitars.

[Dave Orban]

Originally Posted by esoteric pete

a good guitar is a good guitar, guys.

if these are good guitars...wel, then they are good guitars.

Yup.
But for a lot of folks in these here parts (and elsewhere, for that matter), the rarity (a factor of cost and exclusivity) is usually far more important than anything else in the equation...

[pcovers]

Originally Posted by esoteric pete

a good guitar is a good guitar, guys.

if these are good guitars...wel, then they are good guitars.

Ahh, but it isn't that simple. As has been refreshingly noted, and echoed in a second post, exclusivity and perceptions are often a big part of the value proposition in the whole guitar lore and purchase decision, which is not solely tied to the "good is good" concept. If you buy a guitar for $10k, you know there is a significant number of dollars in that total that is buying something other than just measurable quality (.i.e, the things that make a good guitar good).

These PBG guitars may very well have equal amounts of measurable and perceived qualities as the "real thing". However, having them exist may somewhat conflicts the exclusivity concept and risks lowering the value that was invested in that "exclusivity". Look, any rational, objective, knowledgeable player knows that high quality materials, fit, finish, playability, and whatever one calls mojo exists in lots of lower priced guitars. But, like the lion in The Wizard of Oz said, "what have they got that I ain't got"......exclusivity and it comes at a cost.

There is no way Gustavson will ever lose the high level of perceived and real value. But there is definitely a possibility that buyers concerned about watered down exclusivity and confusion from the PBG model could change the market somewhat.

[Route234]

Originally Posted by pcovers

There is no way Gustavson will ever lose the high level of perceived and real value.

This is not accurate. They have already gone down in value and they certainly do not sell like hotcakes like they used to. There used to be a waiting list for guitars that JBG was building on spec. Now you can find numerous ones for sale. They dont sell in one day and the price has done down at least 1k.

What so silly though is this has nothing to do with PBG. Comparing a 10k JBG to a 2-3k PBG JBG is totally apples and oranges. You guys are actually trying to draw comparisons between buying a Ferrari and a Toyota Camry. You guys also seem to completely miss the entire point. If PBG was trying to get into the "exclusive" market you are talking about they would have been better off charging 10k for a guitar and putting Gene Bakers name on it. They are making guitars in Gibson/Fender/PRS territory using small builders designs. They are very obviously not trying to compete with 10k guitars.