Amp switching question

[Stratoben127]

I have a Fender Hot Rod Deluxe. I'm getting a Fender Excelsior. I want to have my Hot Rod set clean and the Excelsior set Dirty and be able to switch between the two which I know is possible but can I have both of the amps' speakers connected and still do that? I want to be able to use the 15" in the Excelsior and the 12" in the Hot Rod together for both sounds. So essentially I want to know if I can connect the speakers and switch actual amps only.

[NyteOwl]

You can do it, but you'll need a Radial Tonebone/Headbone or some such similar device properly connected between the two amps and the speakers so you don't blow anything up. I suspect both speakers would need to be the same ohm-age, too.

[Stratoben127]

Originally Posted by NyteOwl

You can do it, but you'll need a Radial Tonebone/Headbone or some such similar device properly connected between the two amps and the speakers so you don't blow anything up. I suspect both speakers would need to be the same ohm-age, too.

What if I were to just use a Boss A/B switch?

[New_Guy]

You'd kill both amps. Tube amps need load (speakers) or else the output transformer will die. The radial units provide a simple load to the non active amp and ground the input (so that no real power is put into that load. Also simple switches like a boss a-b can introduce shortages for a short amount of time which will also kill the Amp. And finally, the boss a-b is made for guitar signals, not power amps, it will blow...

[GAT]

The A/B box will switch the amps, but you can't use the speakers simultaneously. The simplest thing is just switch between the amps and not try to use the speakers for both.

A head switcher (I use a CAE) will do it but it is more complicated. I use mine to switch between two amp heads and just bring one cab.

[Stratoben127]

So it's not a possibility.... Wouldn't the power amps still have load because they're still connected to the amps own speaker? I essentially want it to run like a cab with two different speakers and two heads switched in and out.

[freaksho]

no it's possible, but you need two devices: the Radial unit mentioned above and an A/B/Y switch. this is because the Radial unit has only one speaker out jack, so you need to put an A/B/Y box after the Radial to get both speakers involved. also both speakers need to be the same ohms, as said above.

i'm assuming you can use an A/B/Y switch for speakers, but i don't really know that for sure as they are designed for instrument level signal. you should double check that.

to clarify: in this arrangement the amps are not directly connected to the speakers but rather to the Radial unit, which provides a load to the amp not being used, as said above.

[NyteOwl]

Originally Posted by freaksho

no it's possible, but you need two devices: the Radial unit mentioned above and an A/B/Y switch. this is because the Radial unit has only one speaker out jack, so you need to put an A/B/Y box after the Radial to get both speakers involved. also both speakers need to be the same ohms, as said above.

i'm assuming you can use an A/B/Y switch for speakers, but i don't really know that for sure as they are designed for instrument level signal. you should double check that.

to clarify: in this arrangement the amps are not directly connected to the speakers but rather to the Radial unit, which provides a load to the amp not being used, as said above.

You'll surely blow something up if you try this because, as New_Guy pointed out earlier and freaksho even said himself, A/B/Y switches are made for instrument level signals, not the power amp signal coming out of the Radial's "To Speaker Cabinet" jack.

I am still of the opinion this can be done, however, and by just using a head switcher and some creative speaker wiring, but is it something I would do or recommend doing? Not at all, but just for example purposes, here's how to do it with a Radial Headbone:

First you will need to disconnect both speakers from their respective amplifiers, after which you hit your first hurdle, that being the need to make up a special speaker cable to connect both speakers to the Radial. Problem is, both amps are looking for an 8-ohm load, so you have two 8-ohm speakers which, if wired in series will yield a 16-ohm load or if wired in parallel will yield a 4-ohm load. Usual rule of thumb when mismatching amp and speaker loads is to go lower instead of higher, so you'd want to make up a special cable to connect the speakers to each other like this with a 1/4" jack on the end that would connect to the "To Speaker Cabinet" jack on the Radial:



Again, I'm not condoning this, just saying that this is how you'd need to do it without blowing anything up.

Then you would need to connect two speaker cables, one from each amplifier's primary output jack (the one that was originally connected to the speaker) to the "From Amp-1 Output" and "From Amp-2 Output" jacks of the Radial.

Finally you would need to connect two instrument cables from the Radial's "To Amp-1 Input" and "To Amp-2 Input" jacks to the respective input jacks of your two amps.

That will get the job done and you'd use the Radial to switch heads as it's designed to provide a dummy load to the idle amp, but if it was me and I really wanted to use these two amps with a 1x12+1x15 speaker configuration, I'd invest in another speaker cabinet and load it with two speakers - an 8-ohm 12" and an 8-ohm 15" - and wire both speakers separately. Then I'd connect each amp's Extension Speaker Jack to the appropriate jack on the third cabinet and use a standard A/B/Y switch to change heads. Upsides to this are no speakers get disconnected, no special cable is needed, there won't be any load mismatching, either amp can be used independently as a grab and go, and now the option is on the table to run both amps simultaneously for a seriously fuller sound. Downsides are a little extra expense and a third cab to schlep around.

[solitaire]

Originally Posted by Stratoben127

So it's not a possibility.... Wouldn't the power amps still have load because they're still connected to the amps own speaker? I essentially want it to run like a cab with two different speakers and two heads switched in and out.

You mean you intend on using a cab w. 2 speakers but use one speaker per amp?

[freaksho]

Originally Posted by solitaire

You mean you intend on using a cab w. 2 speakers but use one speaker per amp?

no, i think he wants both speakers used no matter which amp is selected.

[Stratoben127]

I'm actually thinking about getting an AC15 instead of the Excelsior. I probably will. Will having another amp with a 12" make things easier or is it the same deal?

[Cirrus]

As far as I can tell the size of the speaker has nothing to do with what you're asking...

But I'm still confused.

Do you want to have two speakers in one cab but only have one speaker connected to each amp (that'd be easy to do), or do you want both speakers connected to both amps? That's where it's going to get complicated.

[Stratoben127]

I want both speakers connected to both amps. No extension cabs.

[NyteOwl]

Originally Posted by Cirrus

As far as I can tell the size of the speaker has nothing to do with what you're asking...

This is correct. The size of the speaker isn't important; the ohmage of the speakers is the determining factor, as the speakers need to be wired in such a way as to produce a load both amps can deal with.

Originally Posted by Stratoben127

I want both speakers connected to both amps. No extension cabs.

Well then, to the best of my knowledge, the only way you can do what you want without potentially frying all your gear is to buy an amp switcher like a Radial Headbone, a Palmer Tri-Line with eFrog, or an Axess HS-2 (if you're lucky enough to find one), get out your soldering tool and make up that special speaker cable or have it made for you, and connect everything as per my previous post.

BTW, I'm in South Florida, too, in Broward. Where are you?

[Stratoben127]

Originally Posted by NyteOwl

BTW, I'm in South Florida, too, in Broward. Where are you?

I'm in Broward as well. Coral Springs. I play around Broward a lot... Maybe we've run into each other haha.