Brand of filter caps

Creighton · #1 03-18-2012, 10:27 AM

A tech recently replaced all the electrolytic and power supply filter caps on my amp and he used Nichicon brand caps for everything. The amp now has more headroom and volume but the tone has taken a discernable loss.

Does the brand of caps affect the tone? I see mixed reviews of nichicon. I think I'd be better off with F&T or something, which I originally tried to tell the tech was what I wanted but he used Nichicon.

Billm · #2 03-18-2012, 12:32 PM

If he used the same size caps, there should be no loss of tone. A gain in headroom is to be expected, a volume boost less so.

Then again, it depends on what you mean by "tone." Fresh caps can certainly change the amp's breakup or crunch characteristics. Overdrive tone is likely to be different, but probably more like when the amp was new.

I think of 3-band tone controls as "ooo," "aaah," and "eee" tones for the bass, mids, and treble. The "ooo" tones are likely to be deeper and rounder, mids and trebles less harsh, especially if the caps were worn (low capacitance, leaking, or high internal resistance).

Nichicon makes decent capacitors. They consistently meet or exceed their marked value in the ones that I use or have tested in the past. The ones that I use, mostly 22uF 450V, have agreeably low ESR (internal AC resistance), less than 3 ohms. Equivalent F&Ts do not outperform Nichicons, Lelons, Soli, or Multicap. Or Illinois, for that matter. I use F&T when 500 volt rating is required; the above caps do fine otherwise.

neteraser · #3 03-18-2012, 01:56 PM

Quote:

Does the brand of caps affect the tone?

Of course! I've tried Nichicon. They're too sharp to my ears. I don't like them at all. I like Samwha better.

Quote:

I think I'd be better off with F&T or something, which I originally tried to tell the tech was what I wanted but he used Nichicon

Spoiled the amp. Trust yourself.

Creighton · #4 03-18-2012, 02:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by neteraser

Of course! I've tried Nichicon. They're too sharp to my ears. I don't like them at all. I like Samwha better.

Spoiled the amp. Trust yourself.

You said it exactly, the amp sounds sharp now. I'm having him swap in some F&T's.

wyatt · #5 03-18-2012, 04:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Creighton

You said it exactly, the amp sounds sharp now. I'm having him swap in some F&T's.

Make a note of the cost of the caps and labor and see if it was truly worth it. Don't expect or demand he do it for no additional cost, chance are more than even, he spends all that time for the same result.

Sounding "sharp" would imply your playing now sounds out of pitch. I kind doubt that's what you mean.

Here's what you get when you replace old, tired filter caps...more headroom...tighter response...tighter, punchier bass...more top end...and similar. Your amp is going to be tighter and brighter and punchier sounding than it was before, which may have been warmer, looser, and less focused. I want you to really sit back and consider...is this the difference you hear? Because changing cap brands won't help that, decreasing cap values might. There is always the chance the replacement caps were different values than the originals, you should check...that would be a reason to have someone go back in...or if you need the amp to be less stiff and less tight, you might consider decreasing the filtering. Certainly, if you aren't currently happy with, the amp, circuit tweaks ahould be considered to shape the tone and response to your taste, but swapping brands is arbitrary, if the difference isn't visual in the schematic drawing, then it won't exist at stage volume.

I want you to seriously consider if the advice you are getting it based on solid objective testing with calibrated equipment, or the side-effect of misguided subjective opinion...let me help...

Quote:

Originally Posted by neteraser

Community has fallen.
I can't stand this "I hear no difference" thing. It's like we think we stepped up. But really... we're just running away! It'd be better if we realize this as soon as possible.

DTFJ - has something to do with doing your job, really. What type of resistor you're using can even shape the whole music genre not saying it defines your playing style.

You know what I'm talking about. All amplifiers, Fenders, Marshalls generate a certain type of energy and it clearly can be told by many many people. This has nothing to do with the frequencies. The whole amp building has nothing to do with it. Only when it comes to debugging

LOL

We're making a weapon and a town for a man, we carry the responsibility, will a man stand and go through the hell or he will fall. I think nobody can say Kings of Leon music has nothing to do with Matchless ideas. "You work with it"

We're creating a body of the sound. NO. Mallory won't sound. Same thing - Orange Drops. Only certain effects, only certain styles. But that's not what I'm talking about. I see more and more people just giving up easily. (including me unfortunately) Only a few persons are willing to believe, but they fear to put their opinion just the way it exactly is.

What the hell? Btjunkie has also been closed... It's cold and it's dark. And you know I think I just wanted to say:

DON'T GIVE UP.

__________________
I'm quite stupid enough to care. So I'm not that much of an idiot. What about you?

If that's not subjective enough, he can't seem to live with the new logo either.

guitarcapo · #6 03-18-2012, 04:32 PM

My opinion is that something changed in terms of bias or voltages. New caps in that part of the circuit don't sound like anything......they just reduce 60 Hz hum.

diagrammatiks · #7 03-18-2012, 06:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by neteraser

Of course! I've tried Nichicon. They're too sharp to my ears. I don't like them at all. I like Samwha better.

Spoiled the amp. Trust yourself.

nichicon makes something like 20 different lines of caps.

you like samwha's better? really?

The Gaz · #8 03-18-2012, 08:27 PM

Man, I wish this forum had a "parts" section.

Ronsonic · #9 03-18-2012, 02:20 PM

Filter caps, given quality components of similar spec, do not have a sound.

Nichi's are fine.

Like most of the major manufacturers they make caps to a wide variety of quality and temp specs. Pick the right ones and you'll be fine.

neteraser · #10 03-18-2012, 02:37 PM

=) That's good!

neteraser · #11 03-18-2012, 02:43 PM

Or even better: do it yourself... If you can get a soldering iron for $5 it's not much of a trouble. But you have to learn how to discharge caps... I've been hacking amps for 8+ months and haven't yet learned... I don't get it. If you first turn off the power switch and play a few notes while it fades out, the caps should be already discharged. Anyway, "300v can't kill a monster" (C).

twangbanger · #12 03-18-2012, 02:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by neteraser

Or even better: do it yourself... If you can get a soldering iron for $5 it's not much of a trouble. But you have to learn how to discharge caps... I've been hacking amps for 8+ months and haven't yet learned... I don't get it. If you first turn off the power switch and play a few notes while it fades out, the caps should be already discharged. Anyway, "300v can't kill a monster" (C).

Not good advise IMHO ! If your not familiar w/ the inner workings of a tube amp, this should be done by a tech . and 300v might not kill a monster but it just might you !!! It only take 1/2 an amp of current across your chest to kill .
I'd also be surprised after you change the caps if you will notice any difference...