Extremely disappointed with Tone Tools and my Fat Cat 212 Custom

[justonwo]

I ordered a Fat Cat Custom 212 on February 7th and was quoted a lead time of 60 days. At the time Cas was friendly and helpful and eager to get started on the custom order. Fast forward to the end of March. I call Cas to inquire about the status and I'm told the cabinet is nearly complete except for the speakers.

So I call Weber to find out about the holdup. It turns out the speakers had not been ordered. Ouch. I call Cas and tell him about the problem and he places an order for my speakers. Two weeks later, the speakers arrive - which is just about a week after my expected completion date.

I called Cas (on a Friday) and he tells me the cabinet will ship, speakers installed, on Monday. They don't. I call. He didn't ship them. He tells me they will go out the following Monday. They don't. I call him. He tells me they will go out the following Monday. They don't again. I call and email several times. No replies for about 1.5 weeks.

It turns out Cas injured his back - probably about three weeks after the cabinet was supposed to ship out. He tells me again the cabinet will ship out soon. He tells me it's finished and just needs to be shipped. During the next month, it is absolutely impossible to reach Cas. He won't return phone calls. He won't return email.

And when I finally DO get in touch with him, it's only because I use a friend's phone number with a different area code in the caller ID. He tells me the cabinet needs to have grill cloth installed and a few other things done before it can ship out (wait a minute! I thought it was done, Cas?).

A couple more weeks of no updates, no returned phone calls, no emails and the cabinet finally ships (or at least Cas tells me it shipped. I don't actually get shipment confirmation from FedEx until a week later. Cas tells me there was a mixup with FedEx that caused them not to ship the package. What??). So I'm excited the ordeal is finally over, but I'm disappointed when the cabinet arrives because the baffle is tearing away from the body of the cabinet. (Furthermore, the baffle has a couple of miscellaneous holes where I guess the screw was too close to the edge of the baffle. There's no screw, just an empty holes and a bunch of splintered wood).

I can't get in touch with Cas for a few days about the cabinet. He finally returned my email and suggests that he will fix the cabinet if I ship it back. I told him I wanted a new cabinet, not a repaired, damaged cabinet. He assents to build a new cabinet and agrees to a 2 week turnaround time for a new cabinet.

Two weeks comes and goes. I don't hear from him. I call and email several times, as per usual. Finally, after 5 days of trying on my cell phone, I again use a friend's phone number with different area code and he picks up. He told me it had been a long week at his day job and he simply didn't have time to finish the cabinet in the promised time.

So he shipped the cabinet a week late and I just got it today. HOORAY! But wait!!! Oh, this is the kicker. Cas has shipped me a cabinet with butt joints - not the dove tailed cabinet that is supposed to come with my CUSTOM order. Not the dove tailed cabinet I got the first time around. But the butt jointed cabinet that comes on his CNC production cabinets that sell for $200 less!!!

Each corner has this rounded piece of wood that wasn't there on the first cabinet:




So I carefully pried out this little piece of wood to take a look at the joinery underneath. No dove tailing that I can see. The cabinet that I had before did not have these little pieces of wood and the dove tailing was obvious.




And as a special bonus since I'm such a loyal customer, another bunch of miscellaneous, randomly spaced screw holes, some of which have no screws. I'd show the bottom, which is even worse, but I don't want to advertise how Cas cuts his proprietary port.



Clearly, my custom cabinet is NOT a custom cabinet. Of course, Cas won't answer his phone . . . . as usual.

I will leave you with a quote from Tone Tools' design philosophy:

"Dove-tailed construction is a must to maximize cabinet strength and overall resonance. The stronger the corners joints are, the more the cabinet resonates as one. I go a step further and build each cabinet from the same board when possible, I do this to get the density of each side as close as possible to each other with the end result being more even resonance from all parts, thus contributing to more clarity overall . . ."Dove-tailed construction is a must . . . except in my case.

[fearhk213]

Dude, that sucks. I understand production delays and what not. But the cheaper cab is completely unexcusable in my book. I'd be way pissed.

[Last Nerve]

I can understand your frustration.
I, for one, applaud you, as your post is very informative and you've taken the time to back up your position with pictures to support your case.
At this point, if it were me, I'd give the builder until Monday (7/09/07) to refund your payment in full, PLUS the cost to ship the second (and first if he wants it) cabinet back to him.
If he doesn't comply with those terms by Monday, I'd be filing a chargeback with my CC company if applicable. If you paid through Paypal, but with your CC, you CAN do a chargeback, but PM me first as there are some details you'll have to do (Paypal hoops).

I understand he's been injured and ETAs ARE estimates...but the continuous lies about shipping, the avoidance of your calls and the fact that the ETA time was way before he got injured, I don't see how you can trust the guy further than you can throw him.

[justonwo]

I don't. I've given him LOTS of leeway, and I waited five months before I posted a peep about my experience. But he's dropped the ball so many times, that I just won't tolerate anymore.

[RevolutionMan]

Thanks for the heads up, you did us all a real service with your detailed description of the events. It's the lack of communication that bothers me the most, nobody likes to have to hunt somebody down after you've given them your hard earned money, not fun.

[packermann]

It was discouraging to hear about your whole experience. Unfortunately, we take a leap of faith when we send our hard earned money off to a virtual stranger and expect to get what they advertise/promise to deliver. I hope you get your money back and then return his flawed cabinets. There are lots of great cabinet builders out there who would jump at the chance to establish a new customer. The delays and misinformation you put up with is inexcusable.

[XKnight]

[jkamp20]

Its amazing that someone can stay in business doing this kind of thing with so many quality builders around. This is why TGP is a good resource. Kudos for the quality review, even though its hard to knock on somebody sometimes it worth it for the rest of us consumers.

[lv]

Thanks for the heads up. It is too bad when builders treat people like this, because this kind of post will surely cause him to lose some orders.

[Scott Peterson]

Seriously, I am a Tone Tools owner and user. I know about the issues Cas has faced, but don't know what's going on. I have a 112 and 212 from Cas dating back to 2005; both are incredible cabinets. I am on vacation right now, so can't disassemble them to take pics. I can say they have both sounded fantastic and held up remarkably well for me.

Personally, I have no issue with reports like this. It isn't emotional, it's simply a statement of his experience with pics to back up what he's saying. And I consider Cas a friend, so I'm not pulling any punches here.

One thing I will note is a) we have not heard Cas's side. Too many times in these courts of public opinion, you hear one side and that's it - bring out the noose, it's hangin' time. b) if this simply turns into a bash thread, nothing is served and the thread will be pulled because it is breaching legal grounds.

So keep off the 'Tone Tools sucks' tact and stick to the facts.

And always remember, there are three sides to every story. And that is a fact. I am not doubting the OP here, just telling it like it is.

One thing that can be frustrating and the main reason you'll see threads like this come up is that there is a breakdown in communication. The proper place to address this type of thing is a) between the two parties in private; and failing that b) a court of law. Please note that TGP is neither 'cone of silence' or a court of law. If you get the gist of what I am saying, then good. If not, it's the way it really is.

[justonwo]

Scott, I appreciate you allowing me to post this here. I really did wait until I allowed everything to play out before I posted anything. I don't like to smear people's reputations. I prefer to give them an opportunity to makes things right.

Thing is, you're absolutely right. There's a breakdown in communication. Neither I nor most of the people that have ordered from Tone Tools can get in touch with Cas, and when they do it's an endless string of unkept promises.

I thought a lot before posting this review, especially knowing that one of the Gear Page owners is an avid user of Tone Tools. I hope it doesn't devolve into finger pointing and name calling. It's just my presentation of what happened. If Cas has the time, perhaps he can comment on things from his perspective.

Having been sent a broken cab and, now, the wrong cab, I just don't have any patience left for Tone Tools.

[Cliff]

I've never posted my negative experience with Tone Tools. I've tried to cut Caz slack, figuring that bad things can happen to good people. Maybe that doesn't sound right. I'm not judging Caz's character in any way, good or bad. But, my experience was very similar to that described here...not good at all. Seeing that my experience was not a single isolated event, it seems like a good idea to put out a warning of sorts....a public service announcement if you will.

I ordered and prepaid for a Legend 1x12 in early January 2006. Long (very long) story short. It took me 9 months to get the cab, end of September. Caz apparently went through some very difficult personal problems during this time. My main gripe, though, is that he wouldn't communicate, much like this recent tale. I finally traced him to his day job and was able to get him on the phone by posing as another person when I spoke to the front office receptionist. Having to go to that length to speak with him made me feel kind of creepy. I had to call him at work time and time again as the months rolled by. He absolutely would not answer his shop phone, return phone calls, or respond to emails. I received many conflicting reports about the progress of my cab, and just like this story, many broken promises. The "insult to injury" to this was the workmanship of my completed cab. While the tolex and grille clothe were reasonably done, the workmanship on the interior was shockingly crude and sloppy. For example, the port on the baffle board was cut irregularly with a circular saw, overshooting each corner, very much like my 9th grade son would have done in his beginning wood shop class this last semester. This may sound like an exaggeration, but no kidding, it was amazingly crude work. The whole experience left me with such a bad taste that I've rarely, if ever, used the cab. I've generally chosen to put the experience behind me and ignore the cab collecting dust in my garage.

Scott, I know you are very pleased with your Tone Tools cab, and in fact, your review is what got me interested. And, I'm not pissed at Caz at all. He's got his own problems, I'm sure, so it goes and I wish him luck. However, if Caz is pulling the same stuff on other people that he did with me, it seems that he should consider sticking to his day job. Anyway, I think this is the first negative post I've ever written. It doesn't feel good to bash other people. Peace.

[justonwo]

Originally Posted by Cliff

I finally traced him to his day job and was able to get him on the phone by posing as another person when I spoke to the front office receptionist. Having to go to that length to speak with him made me feel kind of creepy.

Ha. I had to do the EXACT same thing. And, yes, it made me feel creepy.

[hw2nw]

I'm so glad someone had the balls to post a thread like this! Thanks for the heads up, it's good for us all to hear about consumer experience with these companies/builders.

[tjs]

I for one definitely appreciate hearing about the problems you guys have had. I picked up a used Fat Cat a while back and it's been working quite well for me - well enough that I was planning on purchasing a new one from Cas.

Yet another potential catastrophe narrowly averted, thanks to the good folks at TGP.:AOK