A question for all the stompbox guys...

[strangersinspac]

I've got a burning question here, so I'll give some quick background and get the the question....

I've been playing guitar for about 15 years and for a long time was just a distortion/hard rock kind of player. I had a Wah and a couple effects pedals but they usually just sat there gathering dust. Then a few years back I got a POD to help with recording....my musical tastes also began to evolve and mature and I really started getting into using more effects... delay, tremolo, phaser, etc.

My POD allowed me to (virtually speaking) run my time based effects and modulation effects in a POST-AMP setting. To me, and I believe many or most other guitar players, this sounds the most musical and sonically "right" way to run such effects. This is especially true for delay and reverb, but I think also true for modulation effects.

Sooo..... I stumbled across this forum the other day and 2 things happened: 1) I suddenly have a massive GAS attack seeing all these boutique pedals I didn't even know existed (HELLO...) and 2) The more I thought about it, the more perplexed I was seeing all you guys who have spent serious cash on delays and modulation pedals only to run them right in front of your amp.... I don't get that.... obviously you know a thing or two about guitars and effects or you wouldn't have these expensive setups.... but I just don't understand why anyone would pay so much for a delay or phaser or reverb or whatever just to run it into the front of an amp and have it sound like mush after it processes through the preamp...????

The only thing I can think of is that maybe you guys always run your amps on a clean channel and don't use the amp's overdrive or distortion.... is that what's going on here???

Please will somebody clue me in..... for someone who's played guitar for 15 years, I feel like a noob right now.

cheers :BEER

[dave s]

Speaking only for myself, I don't like to run an extra 40-50' of cable to use the FX loop on my amp. Also, in a multiple pedal setup, getting the pedals in the BEST order cuts down on the front-of-amp mush you speak of.

Lastly, it helps to dial in the amp either very clean to just at the edge of breakup then use the pedals to further push the amp to retain the amp/guitar tone and guard against the pedals overtaking the basic tone.

That's my recipe and it works in a live situation just fine.

dave

[strangersinspac]

Thanks for the quick response.... some further thoughts/questions:

So, do you ever use a high-gain channel or setting on your amp? I would guess not.... ??

That would be the rough equivalent of putting a distortion/overdrive LAST in your pedal chain which I don't think anyone in their right mind does.

Also.... you mentioned the amp effects-loop. Don't those usually run at line level (i.e. expecting rack equipment)? The idea being you have shorter cables running to a nearby effects unit. To me that would seem to be the best of both worlds.... you get your delays and reverbs AFTER amp overdrive/distortion.... AND its at a line level with a short cable run, so its going to sound clean, etc. Why not do it that way instead if you've got the money for it?

I'm still not sure why someone would prefer to run time effects in a stompbox unless you're just on a budget and buying "cheap" stompboxes (which is obviously not the case for most guys on this forum).

If one was wanting to run a high-gain tube amp like a Marshall for a hard rock sound, would anyone on this forum still recommend using delays or reverbs as a stomp box running into the guitar input?

[dave s]

Originally Posted by strangersinspac

Thanks for the quick response.... some further thoughts/questions:

So, do you ever use a high-gain channel or setting on your amp? I would guess not.... ??

That would be the rough equivalent of putting a distortion/overdrive LAST in your pedal chain which I don't think anyone in their right mind does.

Don't use a high-gain channel. Both my gigging amps are single-ended Class A circuit amps. Get all my gain from pedals. There are so many ways to introduce FX into a rig. And what works for others might not make sense or work 'best' for you. Like everything else, there really is no BEST way--it's what works best for each player.

dave

[giggedy]

I don't have an effects loop.

[Franklin]

Originally Posted by giggedy

I don't have an effects loop.

+1

[slacker]

In my experience the gain sounds come from a combination of running a valve amp (in my case with no mater volumes) at the point of breakup. If you then run an overdrive into various time based effects most of the gain is coming from the pedals.

It's that blend of gain that gives you IMHO the sound and allows you to run delays etc.

Most or many amps that have a gain channel also have an effects loop. Some players bypass the gain channel completely and use od pedals. Listen to the gain channel on a Fender HRD to get my point.

[semi-hollowbody]

I play both amps clean, then us epedals to dirty them up...
my DRRI does NOT have a loop, my peavel CL 30 does have a loop

[Aj_rocker]

nor do i (have a fx loop) and professionally i never touch the same amp twice (as i am just starting out, in the session world). i perfer boxes with no hiden menus, and great tones.


Aj

[funkycam]

Depends what you want:
phase into a dirty amp is cool, just different than after.
Delay into a dirty amp has a certain tone & application (read "the edge").
If you want to use delay after dirt you would need either
1)to keep the power section clean which means clean amp plus pedals or dirty channel on amp with fx loop.
or
2) slave the amp with power section distorting & put the signal into fx & then a clean power amp.
Live everything is a compromise & much comes down to (1) how much gear you are able to understand/can afford/are willing to cart around & (2) if you have volume constraints (ie singer or sound guy wants a certain stage volume)


on the stompbox front, many, many great sounding amps do not have an fx loop.
There are many great sounding delay stompboxes. Spring reverb from an amp has a different vibe than digital reverb.
Lots of people prefer the simplicity of stompboxes & you just shop around until you get the tone you want (which may be never hence GAS)
I went from the midi rack setup to a clean amp with some pedals & I actually find it more useably flexible, meaning that you can create sounds on the fly much easier.
I am sure some will disagree with me...

Here is a vid of me with dirt pedals into dd-6 into the reverb channel of a SF fender twin..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LU3elE_xb2k

[bagpipe]

Originally Posted by funkycam

Here is a vid of me with dirt pedals into dd-6 into the reverb channel of a SF fender twin..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LU3elE_xb2k

Not really related to the thread, but I enjoyed your Youtube video. Especially the first part of the solo where you have the "delay drenched" sound - it really fits well with the vibe of the song. Very atmospheric.

[funkycam]

Originally Posted by bagpipe

Not really related to the thread, but I enjoyed your Youtube video. Especially the first part of the solo where you have the "delay drenched" sound - it really fits well with the vibe of the song. Very atmospheric.

Thx for checking it out :BEER I appreciate the kind words

I don't want to high jack the thread, but thinking about it, I guess what is really importaint with fx setups is that they feel organic & "sensible" to you both in terms of tones that can be produced as well as how the elements are organized, be it pedals, midi racks, amp channels, guitarsynth, whatever...

In this solo I improvised everything on the fly, both notes & fx combinations.
In terms of the flow of the solo I couldn't really separate the two & it made me think that ideally you just reach for colours... an arpeggio, some wah, a pick slide, a bend, some delay, bone dry clean...all should serve the music equally.

[dodelson]

Yeah, I think most people who use delay/modulation/reverb in front of their amps, including myself, don't have a distortion channel in their amp or don't use it. If a delay/modulation/reverb pedal is after a distortion pedal, it's effectively the same as having it in the effects loop.

[HHB]

I'm in the same camp as DaveS, it's oldschool and it works on the bandstand

[gururyan]

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