difference between nos and current?

[gratay]

Ok , I've been reading and researching and I'm wondering what the real difference between some of the new production pre-amp tubes as opposed to nos tubes as far as sound goes.


I guess I'm asking what would I expect to hear between something like a new production tung-sol 12ax7 @ $15 compared to say a NOS Tesla e83cc @ $65 or a Nos Brimar cv4004 @ $85

These are for a twin reverb v2 and v4 positions...If the sound is close between some of the current crop compared to NOS but the longevity of the current production is the main issue then I don't mind replacing a $15 tube more regularly..

What are peoples thoughts on the real differences?
cheers grant.

[guitardr]

NOS stuff was made (as they say) "back in the day" when there was more competition, use of vacuum technology, etc.

Go to Tone Quest Report and Vintage Guitar web site's and read up on the various articles. The owner of Groove Tubes (Aspen Pittman) wrote a pretty interesting book on the subject. And e-mail the various sellers of tubes and get the skinny.

Wonderful NOS tubes can take your breath away tho. But they ARE costly.
What's it worth to you in the long run? Also: learning how to bias your amp will also save you dineros.

[wopr]

There is a lot of subjective words that could be used to describe the difference, but, at the end of the day, they just sound better, and its an obvious difference.

steve

[sector9]

You will hear the nos tube last longer than current production tubes. You may also see better tone!

[gratay]

Originally Posted by wopr

There is a lot of subjective words that could be used to describe the difference, but, at the end of the day, they just sound better, and its an obvious difference.

steve

this is what I'm wondering. The sound is the most important factor so if it is a noticeable difference and clear cut then I'd opt for what was the better sound if I could afford them.
For what its worth my amp has some jj ecc81's, jj ecc83 and ruby 12ax7's ...would the new tung-sol 12ax7's be a step up from what I've got..
I am really keen on trying the mullard cv4024 for reverb and PI from what i've read.

[TFR]

NOS doesn't always mean good. A tube may test fine but not work well in your amp. I put a Mullard CV4024 in my Maz 18's reverb slot and immediately started getting a motorboating type noise, although it works fine as a phase inverter in another amp. An expensive 12AX7 I bought hummed too bad to use it in V1. You have to sift through them to find what works best in your amp and that can get costly. These days I just try to find the best current production tubes I can. JJ's seem to work well enough for me.

[Teahead]

NOS often equates to a better sounding and more reliable valve. They are much quieter too, that nasty hiss from those current production ECC83s would disappear if you popped some quality in there. Those tubes made way back when were often produced to perform to military standards and far exceed the needs of a guitar amp.

[sector9]

Get the mullard cv4024s, at 20 bucks each you cant go wrong.

[jspax7]

Your Twin probably came from the factory with RCA's, unless it's a reissue.

12AX7's are the most desired, and therefore most expensive NOS tubes. Good news is, you can still get ANOS (test as new) tubes from a reliable vendor like KCA, for much less than NOS, and they will outlast and outperform any current production tubes.

If you don't need the gain of a 12AX7, you can find NOS GE 5751's and and Mullard AT7's for $20.00 apiece. Great tubes for that twin vs $15.00 new production stuff of questionable quality/tone that won't last.

Save the Brimars for amps that you want to overdrive. For clean tones Used RCA, NOS GE and NOS Mullard is what I would do.

Retube that Twin with NOS once, and you may never have to do it again.

[Old Tele man]

...the "real" answer is: NOS were built to QUALITY STANDARDS and current imports are built to QUANTITY NUMBERS.

....many NOS tubes, both commercial and MIL-SPEC, were identical since it was 'cost-effeictive' to built just ONE excellent quality tube than to build two diffenent tubes...so, MIL-SPEC were "guaranteed" good and commerical were "almost always" good.

[The Pup]

In the late '70s, I thought (wrongly) that consumer tube production would cease completely in the future...so, I spent copious amounts of money buying "NOS" tubes from the late '70s to about the mid '80s, tapering off sometime in the mid '90s. I amassed a rather ridiculous amount of tubes which proved difficult to move and store...well beyond what I could possibly use in several lifetimes (and I currently own more than 20 amps).

In the last few years, I have been absolutely floored by the escalating prices of NOS tubes. This, and some degree of caution, motivated me to store them securely and take out an insurance rider. At home, I have a closet with a few shelves of NOS for my personal use...the rest I rarely ever see.

I guess what I'm trying to say is...I accumulated all of these tubes unnecessarily, since good current production stock are more than adequate. Yes, I can get good tone out of current production tubes!

In fact, I have a 30w combo that has the same set of JJ tubes since 1996 (or so)...which equates to over 6,000 hours of use. Although, I did replace one of the output tubes recently (it developed a "G" note rattle) and left the rest alone. Still sounding great.

I know I (or my kids) will make bank on my substantial investment some day...but the "end is near" regarding quality tubes has yet to materialize. I think, if you can't get good tone out of current production tubes...there's probably some other reason at play.

...although, I did take out an nice fresh set of RFT tubes for my 50w rectified small-box just for S&Gs! Oh, I got a couple amps running Mullard/RCA rectifier tubes going on over 30+ years...hmmmmm. I guess those JJs might pale in comparison to that.

P.S. If your great sounding amp was designed and built with new production tubes...why worry about NOS? I'm not saying there are no differences, but I can unequivocally state that we are living in the age of great tone and fast cars!

P.P.S. I think there are some phenomenal sounding amps made today running current production tubes...no worries.

[jspax7]

Originally Posted by The Pup

In the late '70s, I thought (wrongly) that consumer tube production would cease completely in the future...so, I spent copious amounts of money buying "NOS" tubes from the late '70s to about the mid '80s, tapering off sometime in the mid '90s. I amassed a rather ridiculous amount of tubes which proved difficult to move and store...well beyond what I could possibly use in several lifetimes (and I currently own more than 20 amps).

In the last few years, I have been absolutely floored by the escalating prices of NOS tubes. This, and some degree of caution, motivated me to store them securely and take out an insurance rider. At home, I have a closet with a few shelves of NOS for my personal use...the rest I rarely ever see.

I guess what I'm trying to say is...I accumulated all of these tubes unnecessarily, since good current production stock are more than adequate. Yes, I can get good tone out of current production tubes!

In fact, I have a 30w combo that has the same set of JJ tubes since 1996 (or so)...which equates to over 6,000 hours of use. Although, I did replace one of the output tubes recently (it developed a "G" note rattle) and left the rest alone. Still sounding great.

I know I (or my kids) will make bank on my substantial investment some day...but the "end is near" regarding quality tubes has yet to materialize. I think, if you can't get good tone out of current production tubes...there's probably some other reason at play.

...although, I did take out an nice fresh set of RFT tubes for my 50w rectified small-box just for S&Gs!

P.S. If your great sounding amp was designed and built with new production tubes...why worry about NOS? I'm not saying there are no differences, but I can unequivocally state that we are living in the age of great tone and fast cars!

P.P.S. I think there are some phenomenal sounding amps made today running current production tubes...no worries.

Sounds like you've got a nice stash there. Wise move to stock up. If you ever want to let a couple go, shoot me a PM.

I have a Mesa 2:90 that I gigged with for a couple of years. (Just weekends, mind you) Thought I'd borrow a pair of 6L6's (JJ's) to sample in a new amp. Out of 2 matched quads, I couldn't find a suitable pair. Some were unusable the rest had drifted too far apart. (I'll be trying a different brand next time)

I've had JJ, Tung Sol, and EH in my newer amps, and every time I've put NOS in their place, the NOS sounded better, and were quieter than any current production tubes. (The noise floor was the big surprise) I'm still hopeful that things will improve. I felt the same way as you regarding current production, amps designed with them, etc...

As long as I can get NOS or ANOS tested tubes at reasonable prices, that's what I'll use. Little by little, I'm accumulating enough to keep my amps supplied for the duration.

[gratay]

ok its starting to smell like NOS is the way to go in pre-amp tubes..

Do people think the same for output tubes ....same scenario?
because I've heard good things about the TAD 6L6's ..
Is the same thing true....NOS power tubes over current production..?
Because NOS output tubes can even be higher price and will definitely not last as long as pre-amp tubes....
So do people go NOS for pre-amps and current production for power tubes?
cheers for all the insights

[Freedom]

Just my experience...

I had the chance to listen to my metro plexi with JJ preamp tubes when my tech brought it home...very nice sound indeed...

Then we put 2 mullards and a Tungsram (all of them NOS)...there was no comparison...they blew my mind off...:BEER

Still, that doesn't mean that NOS is the only way...its the sounds you are after...

[SkipTracer]

I'm also in favor of NOS tubes. The key is to get them from a trustworthy dealer who tests them and will take them back in case something's wrong with them. I'd recommend the 'tubetramp' aka Terry Kligore who posts on the metroamp forums. I've heard good things about KCA as well. Ebay can be a crab shoot, but the deals are still there I think.

Soundwise, I thought the difference was pretty obvious in my AC30, for both pre and power tubes. I'm using RFT pre-amp tubes and soviet 6p14p-EB power tubes (direct EL84 replacements). Both are still very affordable, especially the soviet tubes which are actually less than a new set of JJs (and better sounding IMO).