Anecdotal evidence of how useless tone OCD is

[Mr. Bertha]

I've recently been contemplating how little one's gear matters provided it's baseline good gear and you take a moment to adjust it for the situation. In furtherance of this theory I did an experiment. I dragged a 100W 4xel34 Marshall to a gig. Typically with this band I use a 20-ish Watt Fender Deluxe reverb style amp. These are completely different beasts. Everyone else in the band brought their usual gear and I set myself up accordingly. At first the sound guy did that typical petulant sound guy thing -- rolling his eyes and puffing in exasperation about the firepower on stage... standard issue Simpsons 'Comic Book Guy' attitude delivered through a bad goatee, a spaghetti stained t-shirt stretched over a spaghetti filled fat gut and cargo pants. I ignored him. I set my volume responsibly, staying mindful of the other instruments in my band and we played our set. The world did not, so far as I can tell, implode. Nobody ran away shrieking in pain. Nobody bled from the eyes. Nobody held their nose is disdain or fainted. On the contrary, people crowded up front and seemed to dig it. Even the sound guy was considerably more friendly after the set -- asking about our gear, giving us his card and asking us where else we'll be playing in the coming months. Even from my end of things, I was undisturbed by the relative cleanliness of a 100W amp vs a 20ish watter, or the mid-forwardness of a Marshall vs a Fender style amp. I had fun playing, like I always do.

I only mention this because it illustrates how much of the 'useability' of an amp is determined by the user and how uptight they are/aren't about what works for their set. This wasn't a big club, maybe 250 capacity, yet 100W Marshall wasn't too much. Other times I've played there with the same band, 22W Fender wasn't too little. Even the sound guy seemed initially to buy into certain notions of what should and shouldn't be used in a club that size, but was cool with it by the end. So many threads around here get so wound up about what a sound guy will presumably do with any combination of his foot and your arse if you bring too much firepower to a club.

I'm not saying don't use gear you like. I'm not saying don't buy boutique. I'm not saying you should install a 1/4" jack into your clock-radio and gig with that. I'm just saying that lots of gear works even across the huge chasm of 20w vs 100w, and british voice vs american voiced amps. Continue to discuss gear by all means. I love this forum and I love gear discussions. Just remember to relax and enjoy your gigs even if your gear is only 99.99999999999% of the way to almost perfect.

[Deadduck]

Good post!

[Plague Dog]

The last band I gigged with, I usually brought 50 watt marshall head, 4x10 cabinet and pedal board. The guitarist on the other side played a 30 watt Budda 2x12 combo. Every time we played I was told they couldn't hear me, but to me on stage I was blaringly loud... My choices were to turn up, making a band that already played too loud and drove out customers even louder, ask the other guitar player to turn down, which I always did, with no success, or put up with it, which I didn't.

Funny thing is we did classic rock covers, the likes of Tom Petty and other lame crap from the 60's and seventies.

[ericb]

Originally Posted by Plague Dog

The last band I gigged with, I usually brought 50 watt marshall head, 4x10 cabinet and pedal board. The guitarist on the other side played a 30 watt Budda 2x12 combo. Every time we played I was told they couldn't hear me, but to me on stage I was blaringly loud... My choices were to turn up, making a band that already played too loud and drove out customers even louder, ask the other guitar player to turn down, which I always did, with no success, or put up with it, which I didn't.

Funny thing is we did classic rock covers, the likes of Tom Petty and other lame crap from the 60's and seventies.

Hey there, luckily most of my bands have only been me playing guitar , so I haven't had to deal with the 2nd guitarist thing too much , but when I've had 2 guitarist bands, gradually you figure it out as you get more experience what works and what doesn't . Of course soundmen that know what they're doing also can help that A LOT. (I'm a decent soundman, and so are many guys I know, BUT I surely know awful ones , the same as you guys do ) ..

There are surely options for you though , and 2 really basic ones are 1) if you have 2 monitor mixes, just put a bit of your sound thru the monitors of the guys who can't hear you . That doesn't drive out your customers and then your band won't say they don't hear you and/or 2) point your cabs inward on the stage. So many friends have always played this way , but I don't like it . Many guys DO like that though and point your cab sideways . It works just fine and will let the other side of the stage hear you .

Rock on

Eric

[0din]

Exactly. I'm both a gigging musician and a paid sound engineer for a local venue (typical shows from 200-100 people, depending on the act). I've played everything from small dive bars to outdoor festival stages. I use a Dr Z Maz 38 and Maz 18 and if I can't hear it on stage (never happens) I can always ask for some guitar in the monitor (never happens).

I work with guitarists every week using a variety of amps, some too big IMO because I wouldn't want to carry it, but amp size rarely relates to volume in my experience. Some guys play too loud no matter what. 2 of the guys with the best stage volume play a JCM800 and 4x12 (facing backwards) and a Bogner Ecstast 101b and 2x12. The loudest guys are almost always playing a Fender Hot Rod series amp.

[somedude]

Originally Posted by 0din

I work with guitarists every week using a variety of amps, some too big IMO because I wouldn't want to carry it, but amp size rarely relates to volume in my experience. Some guys play too loud no matter what. 2 of the guys with the best stage volume play a JCM800 and 4x12 (facing backwards) and a Bogner Ecstast 101b and 2x12. The loudest guys are almost always playing a Fender Hot Rod series amp.

Nothing sounds worse than a small combo that's cranked to death because the owner is trying to get it to sound like a decently powered half stack.

[0din]

Originally Posted by somedude

Nothing sounds worse than a small combo that's cranked to death because the owner is trying to get it to sound like a decently powered half stack.

Especially on a stage that doesn't need a decently powered half stack.

[studiodunn]

Originally Posted by 0din

The loudest guys are almost always playing a Fender Hot Rod series amp.

HAHAHAHA!

Truth rules.

[reo73]

Everytime I gig with my 100W amp I turn up the master about 1/3 the way. Everytime I gig with my 30W amp I turn up the master about 1/3 the way. It all sounds the same to me.

[stephen sawall]

Originally Posted by reo73

Everytime I gig with my 100W amp I turn up the master about 1/3 the way. Everytime I gig with my 30W amp I turn up the master about 1/3 the way. It all sounds the same to me.

+1
I wonder why people get so hung up on this watt number thing ?


....I have amps from 5/150 watts all of them have a volume control that works great at the volume most drummers play at for me. They also all have there own voice at this volume.

[splatt]

Originally Posted by stephen sawall

+1
I wonder why people get so hung up on this watt number thing ?

i wouldn't say i'm "hung up" no the numbers.
still,
high-powered amps offer me a few sonic things
that lower-powered amps simply do not:
headroom, substantial low-end response,
and a particular feel.
i like, own & use both styles of amps,
but usually tend to prefer the higher-powered amps,
even at lower volumes.
also, i don't mind using an attenuator
in order to maintain those sonic & feel-ic qualities.

Originally Posted by stephen sawall

....I have amps from 5/150 watts all of them have a volume control that works great at the volume most drummers play at for me.

yeah;
i can't bring anything less than my 30-50w amp to any stage-gig
and make sense of it;
we don't play so loud, but..... the band's dynamics
really require some headroom.

dt / spltrcl

[indravayu]

Originally Posted by reo73

Everytime I gig with my 100W amp I turn up the master about 1/3 the way. Everytime I gig with my 30W amp I turn up the master about 1/3 the way. It all sounds the same to me.

Are you using different speaker with each amp? There's not going to be much difference in volume betwen a 100w amp through less efficient speakers and a 30w amp with highly efficient speakers, for example.

- Chris

[stephen sawall]

For me same speakers. If you put a 50 and a 100 watt marshall thru the same cab - with most people it would be a guess at best.

Bottom line is watts is not volume.

[GenoBluzGtr]

Dead on! I have seen Deluxe Reverbs that were far too loud and RedKnob Twins that didn't 'keep up' with the rest of the band. It ain't the gear.

[Plague Dog]

I hate deluxes and it's not because of their sound.