AKG C414 vs. Neumann KM184

[ash]

I'm thinking about buying one of these mics, mainly for recording acoustic guitars. which one would you recommend?

Here's two clips I made with these mics:

http://www.believing.de/_files/414-solo.wav
http://www.believing.de/_files/neumann-solo.wav

any advice/thoughts would be appreciated.

[straticus]

Based on your clips, the Neumann wins by a mile. The upper mids of the KM184 are magic.

[thelionsden]

They are both good for acoustic guitar. I have had both of them, well actually I had a pair of KM84 and I had a 414eb (silver one), 414eb p48 and a 414 buls. I liked the EB p48 best for acoustic guitars of the 414 iterations that I had. I had the 414 first and got the KM84's later. In general, i would say I preferred the Neumann more often than not after I had both to choose from for acoustic. Using both at the same time is nice.. you should get one of each... better yet, apair of each!!

Of course, you want to consider other uses you will have for them as well to help you make your decision.

In these clips I like the Neumann better. The 414 has something in the midrange that does not flatter the ambience of the room to me.

Dennis

[elambo]

If I hadn't heard the clips I'd have said 184. Now that I've heard the clips I'd say 184.

[Bryan T]

The 414 seems to get more room sound. The Neumann seems a bit harsh.

Does it have to be one of those two?

[dunara]

I use both and have to recommend the 184, without even listening to your clips. However there's a strong argument that the Neumann is overpriced. Personally I wouldn't shell out that much without hearing the Rode NT5 first....

[ash]

Originally Posted by Bryan T

Does it have to be one of those two?

not necessarily .. what would you recommend?

[Bryan T]

Originally Posted by ash

not necessarily .. what would you recommend?

I'd probably go with a small diaphragm condenser, but I wouldn't get the KM184. There are a lot out there that are worth trying. At the moment I use a Beyerdynamic MC930, but I've gotten good results from a Neumann KM84 (that's a mic they don't make any longer), Josephson C42, AKG 451, Octava, and probably some others I'm forgetting. The Beyer is really nice and can be purchased for under $400. I use it a lot in conjunction with an AKG 414, doing a mid/side setup.

Bryan

[thesedaze]

I've had great results with the Peluso CEMC6:
http://www.pelusomicrophonelab.com/CEMC6.html

Very versatile, exchangeable capsules, great sound.

The neumann is a great mic, but can be a bit pricey. The C414 is a wonderful mic too, but unless you're buying stereo pairs, why not just get the new cardioid only model, C214:
http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/C214

The AKG is a great room mic, overhead mic, even vocal mic. Not the biggest fan on acoustic, I prefer a SD Condenser.

[Bryan T]

Originally Posted by thesedaze

The C414 is a wonderful mic too, but unless you're buying stereo pairs, why not just get the new cardioid only model, C214:
http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/C214

The AKG is a great room mic, overhead mic, even vocal mic. Not the biggest fan on acoustic, I prefer a SD Condenser.

I own a C414 and get a lot of use out of the different pickup patterns. I tend to use it either in cardiod or in figure 8.

Also, you can save a ton of money on AKG stuff with a bit of haggling. I paid under $700 for my 414XLS and they are usually advertised around $1K.

[loudboy]

I think that ould depend upon which 414 you get. They had a lot of models over the years, and they all sound pretty different.

The classic CSNY stuff was all 414s, IIRC, so it can work nicely.

I have 184s, MK-012s, AKG 460s, and I like the 184 in most situations.

[LSchefman]

As with any mic choice, it depends on the guitar, the room , the player, the creative choices, etc.

You have recorded with both and can't decide? Hmmmm.

The 414 is a great guitar mic; sounds great with a heavily built guitar like a Gibson J- series strummed hard.

The 184 is a more delicate mic; better for light strumming and finger picking, in my opinion (and my opinion only works within the context of my own work, and I don't suggest anyone else needs to follow it). I think it tends to mush up a little in front of a guitar strummed hard unless you pull it pretty far back from the guitar.

Just for grins I bought a matched pair of inexpensive Berliner CM33s, and I was surprised to find that they sound really nice with acoustic guitar. Very nice mids, and a smooth top end.

The point is, there are ten zillion nice mics out there. Maybe twenty zillion.

Your creative vision and music are the far more important choices than the mics.

[jmoose]

Originally Posted by loudboy

The classic CSNY stuff was all 414s, IIRC, so it can work nicely.

Not so much...

U67 > Neve pre (1064?) > Pultec EQP > 1176

Most tracks were cut with a very special rosewood backed Martin that I think, belonged to Stephen Stills. Or at least that's what Steve Gursky told me when I asked him... RIP man.

Regardless you won't get the CSNY tone out of a Taylor or Larrivee with small diaphragm mics and Avalon preamps, not even close! Even with the right recording gear at least half of that sound was the guitar itself.

[thesedaze]

Originally Posted by jmoose

Not so much...

U67 > Neve pre (1064?) > Pultec EQP > 1176

Most tracks were cut with a very special rosewood backed Martin that I think, belonged to Stephen Stills. Or at least that's what Steve Gursky told me when I asked him... RIP man.

Regardless you won't get the CSNY tone out of a Taylor or Larrivee with small diaphragm mics and Avalon preamps, not even close! Even with the right recording gear at least half of that sound was the guitar itself.

+1 I immediately thought U67, too, but I couldn't find the article to support it. I think there were some SD AKG's used on Crosby's Laughing record that he tracked at the same studio, but Studio C.

[elambo]

I've had good luck with a 184 and strummed parts, even when heavily strummed. My guitars (at the time I used a 184) were pretty fundamental - less harmonic overtones - but I'm not making excuses, it always worked well for me. And I wouldn't say that it paints a perfect (i.e. accurate) picture of the guitar it's recording, but it does seem well-suited for acoustic guitar. Mids are always present.