Strat/Trem question: Less trem springs = easier bending?

[DanielT2]

Can the forum gurus help me with this one.

When you bend a string on a strat (or guitar with trem) the trem block moves.

So if strat "A" has 2 springs on the trem, and
strat "B" has 5 springs on the trem,

then it will be easier to bend on strat "A". Is that right?

[shane88]

yes

[EADGBE]

Yeah but a lesser number of springs can introduce a warble to the sound.

[Demioblue]

Why would less springs (i.e. less tension) allow better bending? If it's less springs, and the bridge is set to float, then wouldn't that make the bridge shift more, and you'd actually have to bend MORE to get your desired note? Technically, the shortest bend you'd need to make is one on a guitar where there's little or no movement on the bridge, no?

It may be easier to bend the same distances on both guitars, but the one with less tension would require a longer distance of travel, no?

[splatt]

Originally Posted by Demioblue

It may be easier to bend the same distances on both guitars, but the one with less tension would require a longer distance of travel, no?

indeed, the travel is necessarily longer.
but, it feels softer, since the bridge/string move more readily:
less resistive energy, there.
dt / spltrcl

[shane88]

Originally Posted by Demioblue

It may be easier to bend the same distances on both guitars, but the one with less tension would require a longer distance of travel, no?

no because the bridge moves more

[splatt]

Originally Posted by shane88

no because the bridge moves more

hmmm.
when you're pulling the string up (more),
the back of the bridge is pulled up/away from the body in direct response to the strength of the bend (less resistive energy, less rigidity),
so:
sorry, but..... no.

the string must be moved further to reach a similar pitch, in comparison to the same action with a more resistive/rigid bridge.
just try it. mark or measure the distance.
and, watch the looser bridge fight the bend by dropping the pitch as you're attempting to raise it with yer bend.
dt / spltrcl

[Demioblue]

Originally Posted by shane88

no because the bridge moves more

That's... precisely WHY it takes a longer travel for the bent string to reach that note. It's simple physics.

Because the floating bridge is technically at equilibrum because the string tension technically should match the spring tension (that's why for lesser springs, you need to screw the claw in further), I can understand that it might feel easier. But travel is definately more than a hard tail.

[Gas-man]

Length of travel does not equal tension though.

Yes, length of travel = longer.

Doesn't mean it will bend "harder" though--only that you have to take it a few more mm's to get to your desired pitch.

[GCDEF]

To change the pitch a certain amount, you have to change the tension a certain amount. That amount will remain constant no matter what the bridge does. As has been mentioned, the more the bridge moves the further you'll have to bend the string to get to the pitch you want. To me, that makes it harder.

Honestly though, with three springs, I don't notice the bridge move when bending strings.

[lakehaus]

Originally Posted by DanielT2

Can the forum gurus help me with this one.

When you bend a string on a strat (or guitar with trem) the trem block moves.

So if strat "A" has 2 springs on the trem, and
strat "B" has 5 springs on the trem,

then it will be easier to bend on strat "A". Is that right?

My experience...

More springs = greater trem stability (recovers to tune)

Better quality springs = better trem action (feel)

I'm using 5 Raw Vintage springs for each of my 3 Strats. Great feel and recovery.

[VaughnC]

I don't think it matters. In setting up a floating Fender trem with a proper 1/8" gap at the rear of the bridge plate, you need to adjust the trem claw screws to equalize the string tension per the number & overall tension of trem springs to provide the 1/8" plate gap. So, whether you have 5 springs less stretched or 3 springs more stretched (providing the same amount of string counter tension), the feel of the strings should be the same for the type & gauge of strings used. However, heavier gauge strings usually require 5 springs to get the bridge plate in range of its 1/8" rear gap with the trem claw screws. But the additional mass of 5 springs will affect the tone.

[JimLamme]

The issue with fewer spring is that other strings go out of tune when you bend. Not a problem if you just play the string that is bent. But if you play other strings while holding a bent string, the other string will sound slightly lower in pitch than it is supposed to be.

If you want to avoid this altogether, screw the trem claw in such that the bridge is down against the body. If you like the bridge to float for whatever reason, use 5 springs to minimise the effect.

[kevinhifi]

Originally Posted by JimLamme

The issue with fewer spring is that other strings go out of tune when you bend. Not a problem if you just play the string that is bent. But if you play other strings while holding a bent string, the other string will sound slightly lower in pitch than it is supposed to be.

If you want to avoid this altogether, screw the trem claw in such that the bridge is down against the body. If you like the bridge to float for whatever reason, use 5 springs to minimise the effect.

This is my problem with bending & a floating bridge. I do sometimes play an open lower note with notes on the next string. Even the slightest little bend will drop the open note out of tune, and it drives me nuts. I don't use the whammy bar very much, but I like the sound with the bridge not totally touching the body. I've found that 5 springs with the claw screwed in so that there is just the smallest visible gap works well and eliminates the problem. When I do use the bar, it's pretty tight...more like a Bigsby and doesn't lend itself to the subtle vibrato stuff.

As far as bending goes, I haven't noticed that it's any more difficult to physically bend either way. It is more more difficult for me to nail the right note when the bridge is able to move, though, because I'm so used to my other guitars (Gibsons, Tele, etc.)

[Gas-man]

Originally Posted by JimLamme

If you want to avoid this altogether, screw the trem claw in such that the bridge is down against the body. If you like the bridge to float for whatever reason, use 5 springs to minimise the effect.

Leo designed the bridge to float for a reason.

All the SRV dudes tend to clamp their bridges down to the deck as tight as possible but the shimmer you get when your bar can go BOTH ways is really beautiful sounding.

Regarding the other strings going flat on bends--I've heard guys say they compensate by bending the bar up a little.

I'd like to get a little swing down lever than sits on the face of the guitar by the bridge that you could flip to lock the bridge in place for those big pedal steel bends. Then you could flip it back for the shimmery goodness that only a floating strat bridge can provide.

I'm sure someone already thought of it.