question about Strat intonation and saddles

[AndrewMartinMusic]

I have two questions that I was hopping someone could help me with. I have been setting the intonation myself on my Fender EJ Strat since I bought it a few years ago. Over time, I've noticed that if I have to make an adjustment, it's usually that the fretted note (12th fret) is sharp, and that I have to move the saddles back. At this point, the low E and D strings are still sharp at the 12th fret, but I've moved the saddles back as far as they go. What gives?

Also, one of the saddle adjust screws for the D string is stripped. I was wondering if it would be better to replace the screws, or get all new saddles. Do saddles need to be replaced? If so how do you know that it's time to replace them?

Thanks and I appreciate any insight anyone has!!!
Andy

[EADGBE]

Originally Posted by afrogoose

At this point, the low E and D strings are still sharp at the 12th fret, but I've moved the saddles back as far as they go. What gives?

If that's the case then the bridge isn't correctly placed. What gauge of strings are you using?

Also, one of the saddle adjust screws for the D string is stripped. I was wondering if it would be better to replace the screws, or get all new saddles.

I guess just replacing the screw if it's possible would be more economical. However you may need to replace the saddle too. But I'm not sure as I've never owned a Fender tremolo.

[fumbler]

1. Old strings? You should only adjust intonation with a new set of strings.
2. Have you already adjusted the neck relief (truss rod) and action where you want them? This should be done before intonation.
3. The nut is the source of many tuning problems. Are you sure your nut is working properly? Do first position chords sound "in tune"?
4. Heavy strings and high action will require you to move the saddles farther back. If you're running out of room you can go to lighter strings and/or lower action.
5. Your stripped screw: is it the intonation screw or one of the two height adjustment screws? Either way, the threaded holes in the saddle are most likely messed up, too. Might be time for a new one.

[AndrewMartinMusic]

Thanks for the replies so far. In response to some of the questions, I always change the strings and set the neck relief and string action before setting the intonation. I use 10's for a string gauge, and I generally like the neck to be pretty straight with a low-ish action. The guitar plays in tune at the bottom of the neck, but as I slide up it gets worse. Also, it's just the low E and D strings which I can't intonate properly, all other strings are in tune up and down the neck. Also, it's the height adjustment screw that's stripped.

Thanks!

[fumbler]

I guess I missed this the first time. The D string saddle is all the way back? Really? That one is usually near the front of its travel.

What brand and gauge of strings are you using?

[aaland_brian]

Something is not right here, how many times have you had to adjust the intonation over the last couple years and what brand of strings are you using. I'm guessing either a string issue, or some sort of silly user error(happens to the best of us). I don't think changing saddles will really do anything for you intonation wise, and if you can get the stripped screw out you should be able to replace it without any trouble.

[AndrewMartinMusic]

Hey Guys,

I always use 10's, mostly GHS Nickel Rockers, but often times (like right now) I'll use the Fender nickel strings too. The ones with the funny little bullets on them.

[Rockledge]

I have had situations where the saddle was so far out that I got false readings on a tuner.
Try starting over again with the saddles, move the ones that you think are a problem completely forward then gradually move them back again while checking the intonation.

[aaland_brian]

I agree with rockledge, I've had the same problem before. And I hope you are using an accurate tuner, not a cheap korg handheld, those things or worthless for intonation in my experiences.

[Rockledge]

Originally Posted by aaland_brian

I agree with rockledge, I've had the same problem before. And I hope you are using an accurate tuner, not a cheap korg handheld, those things or worthless for intonation in my experiences.

Thank God I am not the only one. I hesitated posting because what I said defies all logic.

[aaland_brian]

Originally Posted by Rockledge

Thank God I am not the only one. I hesitated posting because what I said defies all logic.

Same reason I didn't post it earlier, it really defies logic and takes you a minute to catch it. I have only had one guitar run out of travel in the bridge and it intonated perfect all the way back, G&L ASAT Z-3.

[AndrewMartinMusic]

Ooh, thanks for the flurry of replies tonight!

Sooo... I use an old Peterson Strobe Tuner to intonate my guitar. It's old, but it is a strobe tuner and it seems pretty accurate. Previous to the Peterson, I would use a a handheld tuner to start with and then I would finish it by ear. The guitar right now is clearly audibly sharp above the 12th fret, so I'm sure it's not the tuner.

Am I understanding you guys correctly that you are suggesting moving the saddles back to the middle of the bridge, and then trying again? It seems like a reasonable suggestion and anything is worth a shot at this point.

FWIW here is a pic of the bridge.



Thanks again everyone, I really appreciate all the help!!

[Boris Bubbanov]

Lower the pickups, so you can get truer readings.

Put the e-tuner aside and intonate by ear, piano, or a tone of the computer.


As for the saddles, some real high quality replacement saddles from Bill Callaham will solve all this stripping problems. The cheapo bent steel saddles on stock Fender guitars cannot take all this constant adjustment. If you wanna use the stock ones you just have to set your jaw and stop making adjustments basically. Just play.

[Rockledge]

I am saying, move the saddles on the offending strings completely forward and gradually move them back while checking the intonation. Retune every move, and check.
That way you can get a feel for exactly how much travel is causing how much change. That way, if you don't find a spot where it intonates you will at least have some idea of how much further back the saddle needs to travel.
Also, how much bow is in the neck at the 5th fret? Perhaps your truss rod adjustment has changed, this can effect intonation too.

[AndrewMartinMusic]

Thanks again for all the replies. The frets do have some wear; the G B and E side of the frets have some small divots, but the E A and D strings still look pretty good. Would this still effect the low E and D?

Like I said, I like to keep the neck pretty much straight, but I'll try a bit more relief and see if that helps. Also, I'll try zeroing out my saddles and starting again.

I'm curious if you guys could explain a little bit more about "setting" the strings? I'm not sure I'm following how I actually do this. Is this something I do once the string is on the guitar, or do I preform it to a bent shape before stringing it through the body?

Thanks!!!!!
Andy