How long before contacting?

[vintage66]

I've never ordered a custom guitar but a similar situation is having an amp worked on. You don't want to be a bother and you sure don't want them to rush the work-you want it done right. I think that's where the hesititation to contact comes from, but people want to know that there's progress being made and they're not getting ripped off. I don't think I'd be comfortable sending a bunch of money expecting the guitar past my credit card's protection limits, but that's me. Some do it, but the builder has to know that the customer is putting faith in them and needs to communicate that they will get their guitar, it's just a matter of time and here's when you can expect it.

[imissmj]

The feeling of not wanting to be a bother is easily remedied by just setting the proper expectation. This can be done by the builder or by you if you ask the right questions to set the expectation yourself. I try to do that in all of my professional dealings whether I'm a customer or servicing one.

There has to be a model that makes sense for this, it's not rocket science. When you put down a deposit or pay up front you should know at what point the next contact will be. That way everyone is on the same page and if there is no contact, you have a pretext for making contact. The builder also knows that your expectations need to be managed as that date approaches/passes.

This is literally Customer Service 101 stuff. I think it just comes down to the fact that you have exceptional artisans who aren't exceptional business people. Part of the problem lies in what MGrier is getting at. If these practices are accepted by community, there is less of a chance the behavior is corrected. I do believe that lack of repeat business should certainly affect builders in this way no matter what is done or said by the community though.

This all goes for dealers as well. Many builders rely on dealers to manage their customers' expectations.

[treeofpain]

The builder needs a process for managing customer expectations, just like they have a process for building guitars.

Unfortunately, when customers leave due to poor service, they often do not complain or articulate why they left. They just leave. So the builder doesn't know how big of a deal this is - they may just assume the economy is bad, the guy is a jerk, etc.

[sw686blue]

I believe builders pick and choose what they work on first. If a builder is working on your guitar and, all of sudden, gets an order from a dealer, I have a gut feeling that your guitar is going to move to the back of the line. Mighty fast too!

I'm still waiting on a builder to complete a neck and install it along with a PRS trem on a guitar body that I supplied to him nearly 3 years ago. Yeah, that's right...3 effin' years ago!!!

[Krayon]

Originally Posted by myjeh

I felt strange in US, delays were considered as normal building process. I think that when a builder and a customer make a custom guitar order that is a contract. A builder must keep the schedule. What if a customer pays several weeks after he/she got the guitar that he/she ordered? Will a builder understand it? So, if any reason, a builder can not keep the schedule, he/she should notify to his/her customer and should ask understanding. The builder does not get the automatic understanding for delaying the building schedule.

What is wrong with bugging a guitar builder when the builder is late for his/her schedule? I think that the builder should be more responsible for his/her schedule. If a builder hate the frequent contacts from customer, he/she should keep the schedule. Keeping the schedule is the basic responsibility for the builder. If the builder can not estimate the schedule or can not keep the schedule, he/ she should not take an order, IMO.

The time - schedule keeping - is the most important aspect of a contract to me.

Also, communication is important between a builder and a customer. A builder should update what is going on with the building process at least for each stage of the guitar building. Because, a builder is making a guitar for a customer with the customer's money, IMO.

this appears to be greatly dependant on the individual builder.
Some of them keep pretty accurate schedules.. others will say,
whats a "schedule"?

some builders can bang out guitars like a machine...
while others are more "artistic " in their building approach and so schedules are not so much of an importance to them.. they build not only to a spec, but to a mood/feeling/frame of mind.

is that good business?
it doesn't matter if it gets you a great instrument and your OK with how it all took place.

This is why is so important for any buyer to pick his builder with care. not only does your prospective builder need to be able to complete your project to your satifaction.. but the manner in which he completes it needs to fit your mindset.. otherwise it will become an unpleasant experience for you both.

some folks are extremely laid back.. others are high strung nervous types, others are timeclock watchers... your builder needs to fit who YOU are too. because a bad match is a disaster looking for a place to happen.

[pete692]

Originally Posted by beorn

You're the customer. The money's flowing from you to him.

Therefore, his job is to please you.

Ask.

I have no problem being a pest to a builder, especially if he has taken ANY of my dough. Customer service, to me, this is where a builder stands or falls. I'd feel comfortable checking in at least once a week on an overdue build. No shame in that, and if builder can't hide his disdain for your pestering, then he might be in the wrong business- no matter how great his product is.

[Krayon]

Originally Posted by imissmj

I do believe that lack of repeat business should certainly affect builders in this way no matter what is done or said by the community though.

too bad this isn't true... I can point out several luthiers that really should have gone out of business years ago.. but haven't.

apparently P.T. Barnum was right. there reallys IS a sucker born every minute.

[myjeh]

Originally Posted by Krayon

this appears to be greatly dependant on the individual builder.
Some of them keep pretty accurate schedules.. others will say,
whats a "schedule"?

some builders can bang out guitars like a machine...
while others are more "artistic " in their building approach and so schedules are not so much of an importance to them.. they build not only to a spec, but to a mood/feeling/frame of mind.

is that good business?
it doesn't matter if it gets you a great instrument and your OK with how it all took place.

This is why is so important for any buyer to pick his builder with care. not only does your prospective builder need to be able to complete your project to your satifaction.. but the manner in which he completes it needs to fit your mindset.. otherwise it will become an unpleasant experience for you both.

some folks are extremely laid back.. others are high strung nervous types, others are timeclock watchers... your builder needs to fit who YOU are too. because a bad match is a disaster looking for a place to happen.

To me, it is a matter of common sense and respect.

Some of them have good common sense and respect toward customers and ,maybe, others don't.

Some builders put efforts on keeping contracts with common sense and respect their customers with common sense.

I do not want to divide builders into "bang out guitars like... " and "artistic". To me, some builders have common sense and the others lack in common sense.

Is that good business?

No. Good business should keep the contract, too. The process is as important as the final product. Time is money.

This is why, it is important for builders to keep the contract: build time.
This is why, common sense is important to me. You may give too much privilege to builders. But I do not. Guitar orders are contracts. There are sellers and buyers. What will happen if a contract is broken in any business? You may think that guitar building business is special. But, I do not think so. If builders respect customers and contracts, they should keep the dates.

How do you know which builders can keep the contracts - building times - ? There is no such a thing - keeping building times - in reviews. If you read this threads, there are some cases that builders put the one final date and postponed without an explanation. How do I know before it happens? Some builders honestly tell you that they may not keep the building time but some builders can be deceiving.

Why customers have to be careful about builders? Customers are paying money. Maybe builders should be the ones to be careful to keep the contacts.

Some folks are using common sense,,, Others are not... You may think about this problem with business common sense. Because, a violation of final guitar building time is breaking the contract.

Again, unexpected things can happen during a guitar building process. Than, builder should ask a favor to customers, right away. I do not think that delaying, without an understandable explanation, is normal.

A customer shows respect to a builder by ordering a guitar and paying money. A builder should show respect to a customer by presenting the final product on time and keeping the contract with a good manner. If there is a delay during the guitar building process, a builder contacts a customer, gives understandable explanation and asks a favor. This is common sense to me. This is happing in the other business and should happen in the boutique guitar business.

[dmbandtimmy]

I would definitely be contacting him.

I'm opening a new office in a month and I can't tell you how disappointed I've been in the lack of customer service these days. For example, the sign guy that I was recommended by a lot of people didn't call back after a few phone calls so I contacted 3 others and only one got back to me. Finally the original guy got back to me. What the heck??

If I treated a patient like this in my line of work I wouldn't have many people coming to me. Plus, I would feel terrible. I'm fed up with people like this and I let them know. I don't mess around anymore. I'm the one with the money who is deciding whether or not to buy your product. if you don't want my business there are plenty of people out there that do. Especially in this economy. That's for another thread.

This guy would be getting an earful from me I'll tell you that much. I can understand a delay, but tell me about it and be upfront about it. If that's the case, no worries. If not, well, there's no excuse and game over.

It's sad, but as I've gotten older I've become more cynical. There are a lot of great people out there, but you have to really watch out, because the moment you don't you get burned.

[btdvox]

...I'd like to know what happened to this situation. I don't think the last poster realized it's been about 8 months since the last update.

[mrclean77]

My $0.02:

Pedal, guitars, amps, fruitbaskets, car finishes, dream catchers....whatEVER is being made, there might be delays and there should be some reasonable understanding/acceptance of this from both parties.

The (all too common) problem:

-a projected date is given (fine)
-delays/surprise come, pushing back the projected date (fine)
-craftsman/builder (HAS to be able to see this coming) does not contact the customer w/a heads up, forcing customer to worry or neurotically ask WTH is going on (not fine)

[Guitar Fixation]

Ya, I have a guitar that as of this week is a year past the promised date (originally 10 - 12 months). I doubt I will see it till March or later (who knows, could be longer). But what can I do about it? Realistically, nothing. All the communications have originated from me asking the builder for updates, not a single email started by them, only a response to my question "any updates?" I could jump up and down and get pissed off but all that will do is burden the project and who know what effect it will have on the build of the guitar (not saying the builder would do something unscrupulous, just that there would be bad vibes around the build). It blows. I did research here and all the prior customers have had nothing but rave reviews. I know the guitar is going to be amazing, this I have no doubt, but a year plus delay is mind boggling to me. I find it is very hit and miss with custom builds, I've had great experiences and really poor ones. In the end I know I'll love the guitar, so will it all be a wash in the end?

[JoeB63]

I think you should the rest of us a favor and tell us who it is. Why would you try to protect his reputation at this point?

[JoeB63]

Why not structure builds like this. Guitar promised on date X. If not delivered by date X, final price will decrease by 3% each month past date X. And maybe, after 6 months, all money paid will be refunded. That will create the incentive for the builder to give an honest estimate of completion date -- and the incentive to work hard to meet it.

[dmbandtimmy]

Originally Posted by Guitar Fixation

Ya, I have a guitar that as of this week is a year past the promised date (originally 10 - 12 months). I doubt I will see it till March or later (who knows, could be longer). But what can I do about it? Realistically, nothing. All the communications have originated from me asking the builder for updates, not a single email started by them, only a response to my question "any updates?" I could jump up and down and get pissed off but all that will do is burden the project and who know what effect it will have on the build of the guitar (not saying the builder would do something unscrupulous, just that there would be bad vibes around the build). It blows. I did research here and all the prior customers have had nothing but rave reviews. I know the guitar is going to be amazing, this I have no doubt, but a year plus delay is mind boggling to me. I find it is very hit and miss with custom builds, I've had great experiences and really poor ones. In the end I know I'll love the guitar, so will it all be a wash in the end?

Bro, I would ask for my money back. That is pathetic!

On the bright side, you live in San Fran. Going to do Bay to Breakers this coming year. Can't wait.