Knopfler's "Money For Nothing" tone match attempt

[CyberFerret]

Knopfler was one of my main influences growing up. I haven't played with my fingers only for a long while, but FW6.0 inspired me to try and capture that iconic lead tone on "Money For Nothing".

http://soundcloud.com/cyberferret/knopfler-tone-match-mfn

It's close, but I feel there is still something missing there, and I would appreciate some tips from those who have more experience with tone matching on the Axe-FX II...

The preset is available at: Nothing For Money.syx



EDIT: Sorry, I should have specified the first bit is the original clip for comparison!!

EDIT 2: Take 2 - with rolled off highs, less gain, and using a Les Paul on both pickups with bridge pickup tone rolled back to 0.

http://soundcloud.com/cyberferret/knopfler-tone-match-mfn-2

New Patch: Nothing For Money.syx

EDIT 3: OK, based on Andrew's supplied clip (thanks) and doing lots of post processing in the DAW, here is my third attempt at this:

http://soundcloud.com/cyberferret/knopfler-tone-match-mfn-3

It's still a bit harsh to my ears. I tried using MixIR2 to set up a multi mic 'room' setup to attempt to give it some 'space' and round off the harshness a little.

[brianr0131]

I thought the beginning was the matched part I was like whoa!!!!!!!!!!

Still nice though

[CyberFerret]

Originally Posted by brianr0131

I thought the beginning was the matched part I was like whoa!!!!!!!!!!

Still nice though

Haha - whoops, sorry, I should have specified that the first bit was the original clip for comparative purposes. I've amended my OP to mention that.

There's no way I can get Mark's "chunka-chunka' mid beat flicks that he does with his thumb and forefinger to get the REAL sound of this intro. My attempt is a poor copy at best.

[riffy]

When I heard the opening riff, I freakin' fell out of my chair... I had the monitors loud for really critical listening... Here I am lying on the floor, trying to dig my credit card out of my back pocket, with slobber hanging from the side of my face.... Now I find that isn't it... Dangit!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Gary

[Audioholic]

you can start by rolling off some of the highs...

[zentman]

Gave it a whack but no where near as clear to me. Gonna take one of those "special" kids to do it and post the patch I think. There's something in that clip making it sound stereo if you know what I mean. It's panned to one side but I hear both.Anyone know what they are doing recording wise? Is it double tracked?

If you listen to just one side of the original it sounds much closer.

http://soundcloud.com/zentman/money-for-nuttin

[Funky Monkey]

Both are getting the "spirit" of it. For the record (and FWIW) a few bootlegs back in the day had Mark playing it with far less of a "tone match" than either of these.

[Duane]

Sounds like a little too much gain. Also, the high mids are pushed too much and the highs aren't as clear as in the original. Are you using single coil? I think he was using single coil for it, which would bring out the clarity and the highs more. Also it needs some room effect on the cab, because the clip sounds like it's got some space there. Maybe try bringing up the air parameter too a bit.

That's just some thoughts off the top of my head for some possible ways to improve it. Good luck man. It'll be great to hear the end results.

[zentman]

Funny about those highs. Sitting here playing they are there. Record it and upload it and it's all gone.

Good tips . I will do them all another day,

[Audioholic]

I don't hear a lot of highs in the original, its a very nasaly midrange tone, with a vowel like sound efx, like a wha pedal cocked in one position, and a lot of growl... I think he used a laney amp..

[CyberFerret]

Nice work zentman... closer than mine IMO.

Duane - was it a single coil? I've read that he played a Les Paul that was critical to this tone.

Also, as a lot have pointed out - there is some sort of stereo 'out of phase' thing happening here as well, mainly to do with the 'accidental' placement of the three (or more) mics. Even the sound engineer that did the recording said they could never properly replicate that particular tone again later...

[zentman]

Originally Posted by Audioholic

I don't hear a lot of highs in the original, its a very nasaly midrange tone, with a vowel like sound efx, like a wha pedal cocked in one position, and a lot of growl... I think he used a laney amp..

He did. They also had three mics all set up wacky and it made some out of phase stuff happen. They could never recreate it again.

It's a Les Paul Jr middle switch ( both pups) with bridge tone all the way down.

[Audioholic]

Originally Posted by zentman

He did. They also had three mics all set up wacky and it made some out of phase stuff happen. They could never recreate it again.

It's a Les Paul Jr middle switch ( both pups) with bridge tone all the way down.

yeah a tricky tone, but I would maybe start with a wha locked into a position and yeah, roll off some highs, its not a high fidelity sound to my ears. and a nice room tone, but not a big tail.

[dayn]

When I heard the opening riff, I freakin' fell out of my chair... I had the monitors loud for really critical listening... Here I am lying on the floor, trying to dig my credit card out of my back pocket, with slobber hanging from the side of my face.... Now I find that isn't it... Dangit!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Me too, ready to buy...wait, that was the original.

It's a Les Paul Jr middle switch ( both pups) with bridge tone all the way down.

Did you mean LP Special or Standard? (LP Jr. is only one pickup.)

[The Ratchet]

There's a reason it's hard to match, Knopfler himself couldn't match it.

Despite meticulous note taking of all amp/guitar settings and mic placements, when they went back in the studio to do some overdubs/fixes they could not replicate the tone. They abandoned the idea and left it as it was. (From interview with the producer in Sound on Sound magazine.)