Become a Supporting Member


Go Back   The Gear Page > The Gear > Digital & Modeling Gear

Notices


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #46  
Old 04-30-2012, 07:58 AM
CyberFerret CyberFerret is offline
Silver Supporting Member
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Darwin, Australia
Posts: 8,938
Quote:
Originally Posted by zentman View Post
^ Um Andrewsimon posted the original clip from Mark,
A classic example of ears deceiving I believe! At one stage, I was going to take the original clip and slice and dice it a little and post it with no other processing and see how many people say "Meh! Close, but not the original tone..."
__________________
▅ ▆ ▇ ▒░ Post YOUR Guitar & Gear Reviews at www.tonecrowd.com ░▒ ▇ ▆ ▅
Reply With Quote
  #47  
Old 04-30-2012, 08:00 AM
manatarms manatarms is offline
Member
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by CyberFerret View Post
A classic example of ears deceiving I believe! At one stage, I was going to take the original clip and slice and dice it a little and post it with no other processing and see how many people say "Meh! Close, but not the original tone..."
I think your brain add something in there. You think you are going to hear a clip of someones recording and then when you hear the real thing (minus the rest of the band) you still thinking it is it.
Reply With Quote
  #48  
Old 04-30-2012, 08:00 AM
CyberFerret CyberFerret is offline
Silver Supporting Member
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Darwin, Australia
Posts: 8,938
Quote:
Originally Posted by BadMelonFarmer View Post
Knopfler used a parked Wah to get that Nasaly tone... I saw him talking about this on a documentary once.

Does putting a wah before the amp get you any closer.

But I would have thought "ToneMatch" would have picked that up.

Just thought ... To see if it gets closer.
My first couple of clips had the cocked wah in the preset blocks, this latest one doesn't and I tried adding that effect in post processing with the Runciter plugin from U-He. I was hoping the tone match would pick up enough of the wah accented frequencies...
__________________
▅ ▆ ▇ ▒░ Post YOUR Guitar & Gear Reviews at www.tonecrowd.com ░▒ ▇ ▆ ▅
Reply With Quote
  #49  
Old 04-30-2012, 08:23 AM
buddaman71 buddaman71 is online now
Senior Member
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: OKC, OK
Posts: 7,608
I always just assumed it was a wah pedal cracked halfway. that's what i've always done when it's requested live
Reply With Quote
  #50  
Old 04-30-2012, 08:43 AM
Ben R Ben R is offline
Senior Member
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: North Kingstown, RI (U.S.A.)
Posts: 1,970
Yeah... I always thought that it was a half-cocked Wahh pedal sitting stationary, too.

Either way, one thing that you can do to make the experience similar is to add a stereo enhancer block to your Axe FX II chain. If you listen to the original, there's some stereo imaging going on, which makes it sound fuller (and cooler).

.
__________________
If it sounds great, is fun, or is exceptional in any way, I'm into it.

http://www.myspace.com/benjaminrowlett
Reply With Quote
  #51  
Old 04-30-2012, 09:13 AM
Hoth Hoth is online now
Gold Supporting Member
Feedback Score: 2 reviews
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Gotham City aka NYC
Posts: 779
Quote:
Originally Posted by manatarms View Post
I think your brain add something in there. You think you are going to hear a clip of someones recording and then when you hear the real thing (minus the rest of the band) you still thinking it is it.
Hearing is so incredibly subjective and contextual, but people still talk about it like it's science. I am fine with admitting I have the hearing of a rock and am completely tone deaf. No matter, still love playing guitar . Because of this, I like to focus on the "art" in people's tone and playing rather than the "exactness" of something being a little more/less compressed.
__________________
"This machine will not communicate the thoughts and the strain I am under."

Good deals with: meckintosh, kentatonic, mwc2112, archtopjazz, wheelman, sbcallstar, Ben C., Herf, Blueser, mississippijoe, jam8466, and about 300+ others
Reply With Quote
  #52  
Old 04-30-2012, 10:36 AM
derek_32999 derek_32999 is offline
Senior Member
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: NC
Posts: 3,334
My fave is AndrewSimon's "YOUR CLIP PHASED AND DELAYED" take. It is just a lil piercing in the highs.

The redone clip is a little too roomy sounding, IMO. Hard to tell from soundcloud anyways,though. Cool stuff!
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay Mitchell
....I happily concede....
Tyler Variax-HD500-Line 6 DT-50-Alto TS112a
Reply With Quote
  #53  
Old 04-30-2012, 11:19 AM
AndrewSimon AndrewSimon is offline
Senior Member
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Phoenix AZ
Posts: 2,297
Quote:
Originally Posted by derek_32999 View Post
My fave is AndrewSimon's "YOUR CLIP PHASED AND DELAYED" take. It is just a lil piercing in the highs.

The redone clip is a little too roomy sounding, IMO. Hard to tell from soundcloud anyways,though. Cool stuff!

Thanks but it is clear now that the intro is double tracked.
The "PHASED AND DELAYED" part is just a poor attempt to simulate double tracking.
What CyberFerret should do is tone match the second phrase in the original clip
http://www.andras-shimon.com/TEMP/Money4Nothing.mp3
then simply double track the intro. (panned hard)

There will still be the issue of "distance" and "smoothness" but it should be much closer.
I don't own the AXE-FX II but from what I understand the "room reverb" in the CAB section suppose to address this issue.
Do you have "room reverb" in the Tone Matching block?
If not I assume you can create an IR from the Tone Matching block, re-import it into a user slot... then you can apply some "room reverb" to try and get that "distance".

Reply With Quote
  #54  
Old 04-30-2012, 11:23 AM
manatarms manatarms is offline
Member
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoth View Post
Hearing is so incredibly subjective and contextual, but people still talk about it like it's science. I am fine with admitting I have the hearing of a rock and am completely tone deaf. No matter, still love playing guitar . Because of this, I like to focus on the "art" in people's tone and playing rather than the "exactness" of something being a little more/less compressed.
Feel exactly the same way!!

I'm much better at setting up tones I like than trying to dial in someone else's.
Reply With Quote
  #55  
Old 04-30-2012, 11:35 AM
meambobbo meambobbo is offline
Senior Member
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: foobazaar.com/podhd/toneGuide
Posts: 495
I like take 3 the best. I think the cocked wah approach is wrong. The original clip doesn't sound that burpy - it does have some high end in it. I think the right approach would be to eq a heavy lower mid frequency boost before the amp. Don't use anything in front the amp that'll cause compression. And then slowly roll off the guitars tone knob until you get the right amount o high end. Also use a low pass after the amp to roll off the highs. Don't try to dial them out solely before the amp or you'll get not enough crunch to the distortion
Reply With Quote
  #56  
Old 04-30-2012, 11:39 AM
Funky Monkey Funky Monkey is offline
Supporting Member
Feedback Score: 2 reviews
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Springfield, IL
Posts: 2,771
Quote:
Originally Posted by manatarms View Post
Feel exactly the same way!!

I'm much better at setting up tones I like than trying to dial in someone else's.
Yep. I've always tweaked based on what's in my head and what sounds best with my own gear. But I think it becomes especially cool to stumble upon a tone completely by accident that makes me think of another guitarist or song that I hadn't thought of for a while. Stuff like that can get me noodling for hours.

(or...better yet...writing for hours.)

Still, the tone-match thing is a fun exercise and very useful. For signature riffs like "Money For Nothing", my stance is that I won't even bother without ALL of the ingredients. In fact, this is one of a small group of tunes that hearing a cover band butcher really turns me off. Chasing (or witnessing the chase) has been fun for me, and when it reaches a wholly passable end result, that will be pretty sweet.
__________________
@(O_o)@
Blacktop HH Strat w/Floyd, Breedlove C25/CRH
jnepo1 board1: Smart Gate in TBP loop>FunkyMonkey>WhammyV>JB CryBaby>VPjr
board2:MoFaux>Mr. Black Overdriver>Neutrino>5LoopStrip(JB Fuzz Face,Nano Pi,Soul Food,BMF El Jefe,Tiki Drive)>KO-ALS>Dark Echo v2>HD500
Reply With Quote
  #57  
Old 04-30-2012, 11:51 AM
fr8_trane fr8_trane is offline
Supporting Member
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: New Brunswick, NJ
Posts: 5,443
Quote:
Originally Posted by AndrewSimon View Post
OK I got the original isolated guitar tracks.
From this it sounds like the intro is double tracked and it has some extra reverb on it
But the second verse is a single guitar, probably a great section for the AXE-FX tone matching.

Enjoy, and show us your results:

http://www.andras-shimon.com/TEMP/Money4Nothing.mp3



I hear hall reverb on the intro. During the verse it switches to either a small room or an early reflection/ambience patch make it sound much smaller, tighter and closer. There also appears to be some subtle stereo chorus (providing thickening and widening) on the guitar which would have been very typical of 80's sound production. For instance the opening riff of Owner of a lonely heart does exactly the same big then small reverb effect.

I don't hear double tracking on the intro or 1st verse. There is definitely double tracking on starting on bridge (we got to install microwave oven's)


Here's MK playing it solo for an interview. Definitely some kind of cocked wah happening.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pH-1iExLXKI

Last edited by fr8_trane; 04-30-2012 at 12:21 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #58  
Old 04-30-2012, 11:59 AM
manatarms manatarms is offline
Member
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 93
I had decent success getting a similar "Money For Nothing" tone with a Rockman setup I had. The Rockman has quite a mid-range bump (around the 800hz range I believe), so it kind of has that fixed wah sound to begin with, then on top of that, the stereo chorus does a great job with a "doubling" sound. It's very wide a spacious.

For a long time I thought Knopfler had just used a Rockman until I learned otherwise.
Reply With Quote
  #59  
Old 05-01-2012, 03:40 PM
derek_32999 derek_32999 is offline
Senior Member
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: NC
Posts: 3,334
Tryin to dial that tone on my HD500 makes me wish I had an axe, but here is my attempt.

http://soundcloud.com/dwalker1/money-4-nada

EDIT: this is JTV-69 with LP middle out of phase into HD500 into DT50. Recording used the DT50 cab simulated out. Forgot to bump up the reverb on the track...doh!
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay Mitchell
....I happily concede....
Tyler Variax-HD500-Line 6 DT-50-Alto TS112a
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 01:33 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright ©1999-2014, The Gear Page, LLC, Brian Scherzer
All rights reserved.
Banner Design: Chris Sileo