Rhythm (chordal) playing lessons

[DaveSemach]

Like many people here, I'm fairly good. ...been playing for about 15 years. I've got the blues box thing down. I can even go outside a little bit. I need to work on my jazz and country leads.

But what my ultimate dream is, and what I really want advice for right now is my rhythm playing. I want to be that guy that can play creative rhythm lines for pop, rock, jazzy music.
I don't want something for beginners.

Any good books, courses, lessons, inspirations??

Thanks
Dave

[DaveSemach]

........................................

... I guess this just goes to show that most people just want to play lead.

[buddyrama]

I am a primarily/ primal? rhythym player. I have found my playing improve by practicing slow, deliberate chord changes. Over and over. I would rather execute a really clean chord change, in tune than anything else. IMHO. Although it would be nice to be able to blast over the changes, but I can not at this time.

[Rafterman]

Check out that Paul Jackson Jr rhythmn video. It's different than most.

[dewey decibel]

Not sure what to tell you, I don't think you're going to find a book that's going to teach you that. You need to have a good understanding of music theory, a great sense of taste and a strong vocabulary to do what you want to do. Only way to get there is to listen a lot, transcribe a lot, and most importantly, play a lot. Good luck!

[DaveSemach]

Originally Posted by dewey decibel

Not sure what to tell you, I don't think you're going to find a book that's going to teach you that. You need to have a good understanding of music theory, a great sense of taste and a strong vocabulary to do what you want to do. Only way to get there is to listen a lot, transcribe a lot, and most importantly, play a lot. Good luck!

That's fair. What if I were to ask you who your favorite rhythm players are? I guess I'm looking for inspiration as well.

[dewey decibel]

Curtis Mayfield
Jimi Hendrix
Teenie Hodges
Cornell Dupree
Pete Townshend
Paul Weller
Johnny Marr
Peter Svensson

[dewey decibel]

I never thought of it as rhythm guitar and lead guitar, just guitar. In most of the music I like the guitar supports the vocal (or other melody), and when that drops out the guitar fills in. So you need to be able to do both.

Each genre is going to have it's little tricks and common moves, but I find in general it's good to work in the middle of the neck, both in terms of frets and strings. Something I might dig would all just be played on the G and B strings, between the 5th and 9th frets, just sliding two notes around. It's just a good range for the guitar and tends to cut without getting in the way. In that sense often less is more. I'll rarely play a full on 6 string barre chord. Instead of this;

1)5
2)5
3)6
4)7
5)7
6)5

I'm more likely to play this;

1)
2)5
3)6
4)7
5)
6)5

...if even that much. You need to think of the arrangement, and try and come up with a part that adds but doesn't detract. It needs to have a rhythmic element that moves the music forward but isn't too busy, and a melodic element that doesn't take away from the vocal (or melody or whatever). Sometimes your part will not make all that much sense on it's own, it needs to be played with the rest of the music to work.

With the right hand there are a couple ways to approach it, but generally once you have decided on the rhythm you should find a way to keep your hand moving at all times, almost like it's doing a little dance. You may choose to strike the strings on each pass or not, that depends on the part. Either way the connection between right hand strumming and left hand muting is incredibly important.

Just kind of rambling here, not sure what else to add without a more specific question.

[Seraphine]

Originally Posted by DaveSemach

Like many people here, I'm fairly good. ...been playing for about 15 years. I've got the blues box thing down. I can even go outside a little bit. I need to work on my jazz and country leads.

But what my ultimate dream is, and what I really want advice for right now is my rhythm playing. I want to be that guy that can play creative rhythm lines for pop, rock, jazzy music.
I don't want something for beginners.

Any good books, courses, lessons, inspirations??

Thanks
Dave

Do you listen to much Grateful Dead? With those drummers / Musicians and all and their approach, rhythm is more than the usual...

I was a founding member of a Funk Band, which proves white boys can play Rhythm as well as lines... Funk really required a lot in this department... especially that, as someone mentioned, it's all just gtr playing and not separate "things"... Though I understand what you mean by Rhythm, lead and lines etc can also be rhythm...

Good luck man! lol... I was a very technical player when I ventured into rhythm and at first... well... it was like hearing everything in my head and playing along with what I was hearing... what others listening to me work it out were hearing was quite different lol...

Remember with electric gtr there are serious issues with more then 3 notes ringing at one time... Harmonics etc... So triads and extended triads work well... Rhythm doesn't need be a FULL chordal rich thick statement... which most often isn't required and takes up way too much room... unless it's part of a statement... yet some do it ALL the time....

[Jon]

Originally Posted by DaveSemach

Like many people here, I'm fairly good. ...been playing for about 15 years. I've got the blues box thing down. I can even go outside a little bit. I need to work on my jazz and country leads.

But what my ultimate dream is, and what I really want advice for right now is my rhythm playing. I want to be that guy that can play creative rhythm lines for pop, rock, jazzy music.
I don't want something for beginners.

Any good books, courses, lessons, inspirations??

Thanks
Dave

Have a look at Truefire.com - they have a whole host of lessons aimed at rhythm guitar - their lessons are usually very good - small bite-sized chunks of info that you can use straight away.

The other really important thing to do is to learn the rhythm guitar parts to specific songs - you need to be familiar with the stylistic cliches of different types of rhythm guitar (write out all the different styles you can think of) - various books can help to some extent, but always try to spend most of your time learning by ear from records, as a developed ear is vital to be able to play really well IMO.

It's a good idea to draw out a list on a sheet of paper, starting with general aims at the top e.g. "i want to be able to play creative rhythm guitar', then branch out downward from that with slightly more specific aims, and then again with even more specifics. When you get to the bottom of the page you should have some very specific aims e.g. 'learn the rhythm guitar part to xx song', but you can also see how they into your overall aims. You need to study theory to some extent but primarily you want to be getting playable examples under your fingers and then utilising them and twisting them in different ways.

It's easy to draw a blank sometimes when trying to come up with a rhythm part, so get yourself a notebook and start to write down every possible approach that you can think of to creating a rhythm guitar part, and how you can vary each throughout the song - you should be able to come up with loads of different ideas which you can then refer back to: they can be simple things like 'play the chords open, but connect each one with a small single note bass run' or ' replace every other chord with a hammered-on double stop'. Include guitar sounds and effects and specific guitarist styles in the list e.g. 'Andy Summers-style sus2/add9 arpeggios with chorus, compression & delay' or 'Edge-style dotted quarter note delay with overdrive' - the list could be endless and you can always add to it as you go along.

A good starting point is to listen to what the drums are doing and then the bass, and then any other instruments - try to find a spot where you think the guitar can sit and enhance rather than detract from the song.

[tweedster]

To make rhythm guitar interesting - play less. Play syncopated rhythms w/ rests, or play on 2 and 4.

Play less strings, like Dewey said. Triad and 4 note voicings, inversions.

Time and pocket are where it at. Rest notes make what you do play really pop.

[Matticus]

I was going to type up a long explanation of some stuff I've been learning from listening to Robben Ford and then I found this:





Paul Jackson laying it down with that "simple" progression:





And do whatever Tomo tells you.

[tweedster]

[_Dan E]

Originally Posted by dewey decibel

Each genre is going to have it's little tricks and common moves, but I find in general it's good to work in the middle of the neck, both in terms of frets and strings. Something I might dig would all just be played on the G and B strings, between the 5th and 9th frets, just sliding two notes around. It's just a good range for the guitar and tends to cut without getting in the way. In that sense often less is more. I'll rarely play a full on 6 string barre chord. Instead of this;

I like your approach! I never thought of studying inversions by physically limiting positions like that. I think I'm going to take a segment of the neck and start working on it!

Originally Posted by Seraphine

Do you listen to much Grateful Dead? With those drummers / Musicians and all and their approach, rhythm is more than the usual...

+1 The Grateful Dead recommendation, Jerry and Bobby work rhythmical wonders into the mix. I think it was Miles Davis who said something long the lines of emphasis being on 'the space between notes'. Keep that in mind if you end up listening to The Dead.

They're definitely not everyones cup-o-tea but I'd recommend tracks
Saint Stephen
Loser
Black-Throated Wind
and Me & My Uncle
for a nice blend of subtle rhythm going a long way

[Goerman]

+1 to Truefire and here are some specific courses worth checking out.

http://truefire.com/rock-guitar-lessons/guitar-cubed/

This is cool as it shows two different rhythm approaches to each tune.

http://truefire.com/techniques-guita...er-techniques/

This one is based on Jon's point above about listening to drums and base.

http://truefire.com/techniques-guita...mp-techniques/

Similar concept different teacher and style.

http://truefire.com/techniques-guita...on-techniques/

Same instructor, more advanced.

http://truefire.com/jazz-guitar-less...urvival-guide/

Really good stuff in a primarily Jazz context.