would you buy a flawed instrument?

[Lost_Cause]

I am looking at an early 80s Yamaha LL10 that looks to be in very nice shape with the exception of the bottom side has about a 10" long crack that has been repaired. It was done in the middle 80s. I will be able to see and test the guitar in a couple weeks. I will try to post a picture later. I am trying to find out more details on the repair. He thinks it can be buffed out? I am confused by that but I guess that the question is would you purchase an acoustic with a flaw like this even at a huge discount?

[coreybox]

I'd consider it at a very LARGE discount, if the instrument was amazing in every other way.

Too many good guitars out there to settle...

[Lost_Cause]

Here is the picture. Not sure why it is so small. I hate photobucket. It seems to have changed to mobile instead of the normal. I do not know how to undo that.

I am working on the price and determining the details. These are not the most common so exact value is difficult. The condition other than that seems to be pretty nice. I am trying to imagine how this could happen other than a large weight being placed on either the top of bottom side.

[John Coloccia]

It took a shot on the end pin. Not uncommon.

If it's repaired properly, it wouldn't be a problem. I don't know how you'd determine that remotely, though, other than getting in contact with the guy that fixed it and feeling out what he did for a repair. If you get to have the guitar for a couple of weeks, first thing take it to a luthier and have him evaluate the repair. If it's a good repair, then no worries. If it's botched, pass.

Bottom line is yes, I'd have no problem buying a guitar that's been repaired properly.

[Lost_Cause]

I believe the repair was done in the mid 80s when it was still fairly young and this guy has had it for 20 years. I am not sure how it was fixed yet. If this is not fixed but has been stable would it be an easy fix? Any idea what kind of cost we might be talking about round number wide if I get it taken care of again to insure that it is correctly assuming that only the side wood has been damaged and not the interior?

Any thoughts on value if the guitar was not damaged in this manner? I know the words huge discount have been stated. If this is a $1000 or more guitar without the flaw what is a huge discount. $250 ish?


thanks

[Lost_Cause]

He says it was repaired with wood cement well before he owned it. I am not sure if there are any cleats on the inside. I am not sure how the inside and outside match up. I am also not sure of the condition of the poly on the outside. He says it could be buffed out which tells me it is not great. I hope to get a few more details but this guy seems annoyed with my questions. I can walk away but I'd like to be sure I am not walking away from a nice guitar at a great price.

[Lost_Cause]

It appears that the repair was done with wood cement on the outside only. It is stable but would obviously need to be redone correctly. I have never had that done. I wonder what that would cost?

[JohnRosett]

Repaired instruments are a great way to get into one you couldn't otherwise afford. My main guitar is a '66 Epiphone Sorrento that has a repaired neck crack. I bought it for less than half what it would have cost because of it.
It doesn't look like the crack really effects the sound or the playability on the Yamaha, and it's in a place where you won't usually see it, so why not?

[Lost_Cause]

I am trying to negotiate a lower price but I am not sure how open this guy is to that since he really does not want to answer my questions. I still do not have a totally accurate value for the instrument either with or without the crack.

[RustyAxe]

If the seller is evasive ... walk away. The guitar isn't a rare model, the seller would most likely want to sell it to an uninformed player who will pay nearly new price for it.

The damage isn't serious, but it does greatly devalue the guitar. If it were an expensive guitar (ie, $2000 or more new) I'd expect at least a $300 or $400 discount for the crack, IF it were properly repaired, AND I had found it impossible to find another, undamaged, example of that model for sale.

[Lost_Cause]

I try to not go looking for things that I need. I wait until I find something that fits what I do for a good price. This person thinks that unmolested this is a $1500 guitar which it obviously is not. I am trying to tell him why I don't want to pay quite what he is asking but I am getting considerable attitude back. that is fine by me. I have other things I can look at. I don't need it so walking away is really easy. It just interested me. Thanks for the help.

[Lost_Cause]

So apparently anyone who does not want to pay what you advertise is now a lowballer regardless of the fact that I was only asking for about 16% off. It might still be a good price but not what I was willing to pay. I may try back in a couple weeks to see if his mind has been changed. I will be traveling close by.

Thanks again.

[pater familias]

From my 10 minutes of research those guitars sell in the $450-850 range used.

That seller sounds like an avoid-at-all-costs type guy.

[royd]

To the general question, my answer is yes. Not too long ago I traded a Taylor for a late 80's Lowden S10P which is pretty beaten and scratched up. That in itself would have lowered the value a good bit but on this one, the bridge had obviously pulled up and rather than repair it correctly, someone put two bolts in the bridge to hold it down and covered them (quite well) with rosewood plugs. What would have been a relatively inexpensive repair would now require a completely new bridge and fairly major surgery...

But, the guitar sounds AMAZING and without the stupid repair job, it never would have been anywhere near the value of the Taylor. So, it was a way for me to get a great guitar at an affordable price.

The Yamaha obviously had a bottom drop. As was said, it isn't a terribly uncommon crack. When a guitar drops and hits the end pin, it is forced up like a wedge and causes a split in the sides and in the end block. FWIW, that split could not happen without also splitting the end block.

A proper repair would glue the end block and the sides and would be next to invisible. I'm not sure what the owner means with "wood cement" but that makes me very nervous. If someone used something like Testors Wood Cement on it, that is a real problem. That would make a proper repair next to impossible. It looks as if the glue is filling gaps so you'd never be able to get that glue out without removing and replacing wood and you couldn't completely close the crack. The end block would never be completely stabilized. I little torque via the endpin and you might have a new split. I would never trust it completely. Still, the side crack could be stable and have no impact on the sound or playability of the guitar.

It does impact value. Even a properly repaired crack would lower the value significantly unless it is a very rare vintage guitar. Even then if you compare the values of old Martins with repaired cracks to the same models without any cracks, the values diverge a lot. A poorly repaired crack really lowers it, especially if it cannot be reversed... I'd guess at least 50% off a realistic value for the instrument.

a quick google search finds them selling for $750-1100 with no cracks... and sometimes for significantly less. I wouldn't go over $500-600 for this guitar... and then only if the repair is not as bad as it looks in your photo. Anything more than that and you'll never get it back.

[Lost_Cause]

This guys attitude really made me not want to deal with him. At one point he said forget it I will go and pawn this. His price is fine but his resistance to wanting to communicate made me want to push the price down a little more to make it a something I had to buy. In the end I am just too weary of the non pro repair job and what could be lurking underneath. I think royd and pater summed it up nicely.