Advice from the more learned...

[hitchface]

...particularly from those of you that have played live a lot.

My main bass player is an awesome dude. Busy as hell, still manages to play with us all the time. Guy's a prince.

He is constantly frustrated with his tone, and I know exactly why. Be gentle, I know the setup isn't ideal (remotely...), which is partly why I am asking this.

Monitor: Behringer EUROLIVE VS1220F

Bass: Peavey P-Bass of some kind 'er other. In kinda rough shape. Volume pot swap was done with a linear pot, some lasting issues. Not a bad sounding unit if you're careful.

And...that's it. The room is reverb-y as all hell (to be changed soon...money is in the bank for treatment). The monitor is VERY flubby. I am currently stuck with the same model, and it makes some settings on my POD HD500 completely unusable.

Tone shaping capabilities are limited to what sits on the mixer. So, 12k, sweepable mid from 100-8k and a low at 80. And the tone pot on the bass.

He's got a Crate BX 15 and some small Marshall 8-inch thing. We haven't really been using them. The Marshall rattles like a can of angry bees at quiet stage levels and the Crate hisses like you wouldn't believe.

Other than working his technique (which he needs to do, and I've told him as much, and he has acknowledged that), is there something we can change that will give some measure of instant success? The real goal is just a solid, no frills CLEAR bass tone.

I'm not trying to solve the problem in one fell swoop. I just want him to taste enough success to know that he isn't going crazy and keep him happy playing his instrument.

Ideas?

[Sam Sherry]

I can't claim to be "more learned" but anyway . . . Hitch, I am going to commit heresy on this site. Here goes: "It's the ear, not the gear."

The simple fact is that [insert name of your favorite bass player here] could make your bassist's setup sound like eight million bucks. The three tone controls you described ought to yield a variety of useful tones.

Your guy can do tons to shape the tone with his ears, brain and fingers, especially his right-hand location. Another often overlooked point is that people who point their cabinet at their ankles sometimes don't dig their sound. Putting the speaker off the floor -- on a chair, table or milk-crate -- will have a noticeable effect both on the actual sound and on the self-perception of that sound.

My suggestion is that you book some beer-and-ear time with your player. Level with him, tell him you're sure his kit could do more. Listen to some folks you both dig and see what you can do together to get closer to that goal. If you do it right you'll both benefit.

+ + +

I'm not saying that other gear would be just swell. I am certainly saying that your guy could spend five thousand bucks and still sound like manure. He could use the gear he's got and sound great if you guys put your mind to it.

[s2y]

People with expensive gear don't always find their tone, either.

[wolfmancharlie]

IMHO, if you are trying to use a Behringer Moniter as a bass cabinet and a mixer as a bass head it's just not going to be all that good no mater who plays it.I was always told that you can play a cheep guitar or bass thru a good amp and make it sound good, but if you try to play a great guitar or bass thru a cheep amp it will sound cheep. Take the two little amps , trade them in on a good used bass amp and his sound will improve dramatically .keep in mind that ,in a band situation, the rule of thumb is 3 to 4 times the wattage of that of the guitar player.I wish you luck in your search. In 40 years of learning and searching I have found my sound a few times. We all have our own idea of tone , as it should be. What we hear on stage is different than what the patrons hear on the dance floor.what we hear at practice is different than what we sound like on a recording. So many variables so little time, I have found mine, and as I am now wireless I can adjust my sound no matter what venue I'm in. The talkbass forum would be helpful to him also. I do hope this helps.

[Rick N Boogie]

Just try using a proper bass rig, and concentrate on the "playing". Should go a long way.

[jay42]

I know a guy who normally plays a Squier Jazz bass. It couldn't have cost a lot in the first place, however, he gets a good sound and the action is fine. His amp is more expensive...one of the Genz Benz shuttles or streamliners and an ampeg 1-15. If it has a horn, he's got it turned off. He says the amp makes up for any issues with the Squier.

[walterw]

yep, he just needs an actual bass amp; a couple hundred watts say, with two 10s or a 15.

it needs to be strong enough to not struggle to produce clean bass notes; (if it can't, no amount of "technique" or "ear" will fix it.)

[hitchface]

The only problem there is that we can't use the bass amps in the room. An amp for practice is fine (which the Crate isn't bad for), but it needs to come outta the monitor. Just too much reverb in the room to have amps on the stage. Is there a good DI or preamp that will do the trick? I've tested the BDDI from Tech 21, and I'd probably own one in a heartbeat...but that's me, not him.

[dspellman]

Originally Posted by hitchface

The only problem there is that we can't use the bass amps in the room. An amp for practice is fine (which the Crate isn't bad for), but it needs to come outta the monitor. Just too much reverb in the room to have amps on the stage. Is there a good DI or preamp that will do the trick? I've tested the BDDI from Tech 21, and I'd probably own one in a heartbeat...but that's me, not him.

Check out the REDDI as a preamp.
Might also look around and find a used Bass Pod XT.
There ARE some very small bass speakers that would probably do better than a Behringer monitor; you might have to go custom with it. For example, check out the Crazy 8 and the Crazy 88 (by greenboy).

Yes, these are eight-inch speakers, and yes, this will perform right there with a 2x10 and yes, it goes SERIOUSLY low. BTW, done by Mike Arnopol in composite construction, this bass cabinet weighs about 20 pounds, and yes, you read that right.

[Mark 63]

Bass amps often have DI outputs with the option to override the speaker or cabinet. So the player can control his sound via his own amp while having no sound outside the PA mix.

In a lot of ways, bass amp technology exists in a different century to guitar amps.\

Re the bass, the TalkBass guys speak pretty well of Peavey.

[hitchface]

The wee Marshall doesn't have that, and while the Crate does, it is one noisy output. Hiss central.

[losergeek]

Sounds like he just needs a decent amp - monitors aren't going to give you the same flexibility. Doesn't have to break the bank - there's lots of perfectly nice combos in the 100-200 watt range for around 200$

[walterw]

Originally Posted by hitchface

The only problem there is that we can't use the bass amps in the room. An amp for practice is fine (which the Crate isn't bad for), but it needs to come outta the monitor. Just too much reverb in the room to have amps on the stage.

It doesn't really work that way. If the monitor system is not strong enough to produce a good bass guitar tone (most budget ones are not) then no amount of preamping or EQing can create "horsepower" that isn't there.

If the monitor is strong enough, it will be no different than an actual bass amp in terms of stage volume.

A small "kickback" bass combo turned around would likely do the job.

[losergeek]

Originally Posted by hitchface

The only problem there is that we can't use the bass amps in the room. An amp for practice is fine (which the Crate isn't bad for), but it needs to come outta the monitor. Just too much reverb in the room to have amps on the stage.

I obviously missed this the first time, however I'm not sure this makes a lot of sense, at least for bass amps - there's definitely something to be said for certain guitar amps that need to be a certain volume before they sound good, but for bass amps you can set them as low as you need them to reinforce your sound on stage. It's not going to affect the room volume anymore than the monitor already does, it's just going to be better suited to the bass.