Riffs and rhythm - does anyone else experience this?

[RedTiger]

Warren DeMartini once said that writing riffs was a lot like fishing. I don't find that's always true, sometimes I create things from scratch because I know, in theory, they'll work. But usually the coolest sounding stuff for me is usually just a product of experimentation - "fishing" as DeMartini puts it.

But here's the thing - when I go to actually record that riff or rhythm I've discovered, I almost always have to go through a process of..."mathafication"...for lack of a better way of putting it. Rarely is what I come up with something that could easily be played with a click track. There's no symmetry to it. Sometimes I repeat this part 3 times, sometimes 4 times. It doesn't feel like it fits within a certain time.

When I figure out how to fit it into the context of a song with a drum track, it definately gains something in the way of groove, but it looses some of the raw, inspirational nature of what it was when I first discovered it.

Anyone else experience this? Maybe I just don't have the skill to figure out how to apply it in time more complicated that x/4.

[monty]

I'm in the same boat OP, and it really sucks doing demos with a drum machine.

[monty]

Oh I should add, it also really blows being pretty much musically illiterate because when when I am working with a drummer I cant really explain the odd time sigs to him/her.

[MatthiasYoung]

There are plenty of riffs that don't fit into 4/4 time. Just listen to Number of the Beast, Diary of a Madman, anything by RUSH, etc.

It needs to be metered somehow, so that everyone in the band knows how to count it. I'd suggest some rhythm training and theory concepts so that you can better understand mixed meter and complex time signatures.

[Heady Jam Fan]

I know what you mean. Sometimes it makes me feel like an idiot who can't write 4 bars of 4:4 time. Other times I am like "heck, this is awesome that I am conceptualizing music in 5 bars of 7:4."

I was jamming with a drummer and switched from 4:4 to 7:4, he wanted it to fit in either 3:4 or 4:4, which I was fine with at the time, but the next day, I went back to digging 7:4 (3 chords, 1 beat each - C D E, leading up to a 4 beat solo. Sounded sweet, very Phishy).

[RedTiger]

Originally Posted by MatthiasYoung

There are plenty of riffs that don't fit into 4/4 time. Just listen to Number of the Beast, Diary of a Madman, anything by RUSH, etc.

It needs to be metered somehow, so that everyone in the band knows how to count it. I'd suggest some rhythm training and theory concepts so that you can better understand mixed meter and complex time signatures.

LOL, I know I should but yet I don't for some reason. Maybe I'm afraid everything will end up sounding too neat and tidy. That's probably nonsense, I know.

My interest in it goes beyond just music into the philosophical. What time signature do babies cry in? What about wind blowing a wind chime? People making love? It reminds me of random number generators. I once read that very few RNGs are actually random. The ones that are truly random are usually hanessing something in the physical world, like electrical interference.

I've often wondered if other music outside of Western theory taps into some of the inherent randomness possible with music. I'd would go as far as to say that from a Western musical standpoint, if it doesn't have a pattern, it's not really "music".

[Ramblin' Ghost]

I have this problem all the time. Only way around it is a really good drummer, or learn to count. I can't count, and most of the really good drummers are taken, so I compromise.

I've often thought about learning the drums myself to solve this issue. I've grown too lazy to use my pedal board, but I've gotta find something to do with my feet. Since dancing is out of the question, a kick and high hat might do. Not sure what to do with the rest of the kit, but a snare would make a decent drink holder.

[shredtheater]

I have a student who does this but he isnt intentionally writing in odd time. Its kind of natural to him although to me, it always feels like the riff will rock abit harder with a few notes added or taken away.

With the odd time stuff, my original band had a ton of tempo, feel and time changes and i always found that getting the drum groove right is the key to keeping things sounding rocking and flowing with the 4/4 stuff. Every instrument has to work together. If i program odd time drums it never works but once my drummer either programs or plays something himself then the riff holds strong.

[dead of night]

OP, you are lucky. I strive with all my heart to write music in odd time signatures, but it sounds contrived and unnatural, like a pretentious prog player who wants to seem clever.

You do this naturally? I envy you.

[Jeremy_Green]

You don't need to compromise as much as you need like minded band mates who are excited about doing the work it requires to maintain the integrity of the riff. Find a drummer who sight reads and is willing to assist you chart things (if you can't already yourself).

The chart is your friend.