Fender HRD Tung Sol 7581 ok substitute for NOS

[pdf64]

A TR moves 100% more cone area than a HRD (+3dB SPL) and has at least 50% more power output (+1.8dB SPL), giving a total of nearly 5dB shortfall.
As the HRD has a 4 ohm output available, the most beneficial 1st step should be an extension cab with a decent speaker that has a big magnet (eg 50oz) and >=100dB/watt efficiency.
The G12P80 seems to be a 'made for Fender' unit which is not commercially available / no spec avialable. Have you got another speaker available that you can compare the magnet dimensions to?
Probably best to compare it to the speaker that you get for the extension cab and assess whether you think upgrading it would be cost effective.
Bear in mind that discrepancies between the 2 speakers will take away for the +3dB increase obtained from doubling the number of speakers, ie best if both speakers are the same type.
Pete.

[GuitarSmitty]

Sorry for the late post -- I have been using the new production Tung-Sol 7581s in my amp for several months now with no issues. They help my amp quite a bit.

As far as the clean channel, that Celestion speaker may not be the best choice for you. If you know anybody with EVM-12Ls or other speakers you can plug into (Jensen, CTS, etc.), you might like them better for clean tones.

You might be very surprised by the difference.

-Smitty

[halfnote]

Does anyone know if two 12" EVM-12Ls will fit in a Hot Rod Deville without issue?
Particularly the top left speaker. Its magnet is close to the chassis.
I had a WGS Vet30 in there and it just made it with about a 1/4 inch to spare.
I want the better speakers.. I hope they'll fit.
I'm going to order 7581's for my amp... the jury's still out on pre amp tubes though.
I want as much clean headroom as I can get. We just installed a Mercury Magnetics OT and Choke. It gave it a plexi flare on the clean side. I like it...
This one a work in progress.. I'm determined!

[RussB]

Originally Posted by bluesky636

Because it's design stresses the drive and more drive channels over the clean channel. The clean channel is not that clean either at higher levels. It will not give you traditional Fender "cleans" like a Twin Reverb.

Your post just prior to this one accurately describes the effect of using a lower gain tube in V1. That's why I use the 12AY7s I bought from YOU in V1 of my BDRI.

Well, that's because a Twin Reverb has twice the power!


Weak tubes do not increase headroom, they neuter tone

[RussB]

Originally Posted by halfnote

Does anyone know if two 12" EVM-12Ls will fit in a Hot Rod Deville without issue?
Particularly the top left speaker. Its magnet is close to the chassis.
I had a WGS Vet30 in there and it just made it with about a 1/4 inch to spare.
I want the better speakers.. I hope they'll fit.
I'm going to order 7581's for my amp... the jury's still out on pre amp tubes though.
I want as much clean headroom as I can get. We just installed a Mercury Magnetics OT and Choke. It gave it a plexi flare on the clean side. I like it...
This one a work in progress.. I'm determined!

Frankly, it's a waste of time and money. If headroom is your goal, get a Twin Reverb or some other 100 watt 2-12 combo

[halfnote]

Originally Posted by RussB

Frankly, it's a waste of time and money. If headroom is your goal, get a Tw to.in Reverb or some other 100 watt 2-12 combo

The head room I'm looking for is right about where the Deville will put me. Relativity I guess...
I bought the amp from a local guy who needed money. Its was less than 3 weeks old and less than half the price of a brand new one from GC, and no tax. I'm in great shape with this amp.
It weighs in around 50 lbs.. a Far cry from that of a Twin.

[TheGrandWazoo]

Originally Posted by GuitarSmitty

Sorry for the late post -- I have been using the new production Tung-Sol 7581s in my amp for several months now with no issues. They help my amp quite a bit.

As far as the clean channel, that Celestion speaker may not be the best choice for you. If you know anybody with EVM-12Ls or other speakers you can plug into (Jensen, CTS, etc.), you might like them better for clean tones.

You might be very surprised by the difference.

-Smitty

I too have a HRDX from 97. It's been in the closet for about 15 years not being used and now I am playing more so I have brought it out to gig. Problem is when I bought it I liked the distortion but now, 15 years later, I want more clarity and A LOT less distortion. I'd like to get to 4 on volume and not have her distort.

Did the 7581s make a big enough difference? I'm thinking of putting in 7581s in the power tube slots and a 5781 in the v1 slot. will this get me clean sounds above volume level 4?

My problem is, will spending $100 on new power and preamp tubes trying to make her sound clean be worth the effort? Or am I on a fools errand? i understand the HRDX was ot meant for clean but I'd rather not sell the amp since I already have it in hand. In the end I want to know if changing the tubes is going to get me close.

[GuitarSmitty]

Originally Posted by TheGrandWazoo

I too have a HRDX from 97. It's been in the closet for about 15 years not being used and now I am playing more so I have brought it out to gig. Problem is when I bought it I liked the distortion but now, 15 years later, I want more clarity and A LOT less distortion. I'd like to get to 4 on volume and not have her distort.

Did the 7581s make a big enough difference? I'm thinking of putting in 7581s in the power tube slots and a 5781 in the v1 slot. will this get me clean sounds above volume level 4?

My problem is, will spending $100 on new power and preamp tubes trying to make her sound clean be worth the effort? Or am I on a fools errand? i understand the HRDX was ot meant for clean but I'd rather not sell the amp since I already have it in hand. In the end I want to know if changing the tubes is going to get me close.

What do you have in there now? I went from JJ ECC83s to 803s in V1 and V2, which helped noticeably. The 7581s did make a noticeable difference as well, but why not start with less expensive tubes first?

-Smitty

[TheGrandWazoo]

Smutty,
The tubes are stock from 97. The amp probably has less than 40 hours on it total.

[Roe]

get a twin and two jbl e120s

[vxjoe]

As mentioned in this thread, the problem is the taper on the volume pot. Many will replace the volume pot with an audio taper pot of the same value. And there are many mods to do to this amp that improve it.

But there are two things I did to acheive a great clean before I modded my HRD: 1- Replace V3 with a 12at7, NOS if you can find and afford one. You could also use a 12au7 for even less gain. Leave V1 and V2 alone. 2 - use a volume pedal or an equalizer between the effects loop send/rcv. This allows you to lower the gain hitting the output stage. Same as the master volume on the drive ch., but it gives control of all gain before it hits the output tube. This second one alone will fix the issue. With the added plus that using an EQ gives you more tone shaping possibilities.

I used a three band EQ used for acoustic guitar (LR Baggs) that gave me great strat clean tones. but any EQ will do it. Just remember to use it to lower the volume. Use it as a master volume. In a pinch even a cheapo mixer will be okay to tell you if it will work before you spend any money.

[TheGrandWazoo]

Vxjoe,
Thanks for the input. I'm on the fence though as the more I play the HRDX the more I relaize Im not a fan of the "glassy" sound my HRDX is putting out. It has this great tone that would be cool if I was playing a strat and looking for that classic 50's/60's fender sound, but I'm looking more for a flat, less "glassy" clean sound. Not sure if glassy is the correct adjective but it is what comes to mind when I play thru it. Its nice, but just not what I want to sound like.

I recently played a MusicMan 210-Sixty Five that had the exact sound I was looking for. I really enjoyed the amount of clean headroom the 210-65 put out (but hate the idea of trusting a 40 year old amp even if it is built like a tank). The HRDX is a great amp but I think that the "classic" Fender sound is no longer what I am trying to achieve.

I will try out the volume pedal in the FX loop to see how that works out. The more I think about changing the tubes though makes me wonder why I just dont change amps. Why am I trying to make an apple an orange?

[Funky54]

Originally Posted by TheGrandWazoo

Vxjoe,
Thanks for the input. I'm on the fence though as the more I play the HRDX the more I relaize Im not a fan of the "glassy" sound my HRDX is putting out. It has this great tone that would be cool if I was playing a strat and looking for that classic 50's/60's fender sound, but I'm looking more for a flat, less "glassy" clean sound. Not sure if glassy is the correct adjective but it is what comes to mind when I play thru it. Its nice, but just not what I want to sound like.

I recently played a MusicMan 210-Sixty Five that had the exact sound I was looking for. I really enjoyed the amount of clean headroom the 210-65 put out (but hate the idea of trusting a 40 year old amp even if it is built like a tank). The HRDX is a great amp but I think that the "classic" Fender sound is no longer what I am trying to achieve.

I will try out the volume pedal in the FX loop to see how that works out. The more I think about changing the tubes though makes me wonder why I just dont change amps. Why am I trying to make an apple an orange?

I think a serviced vintage music man is going to be more reliable then the hot rod? For head room, I'd add another speaker.

[TheGrandWazoo]

Funky,
Was that '?' A typo? Are you saying a MM is going to be more reliable? Just wanted to clarify. Thx.