When Bands "Jumped The Shark"

[patentcad]

Originally Posted by Jim Soloway

In both instances, they just became different bands using an old name and in both instances, there are many people who prefer the new configuration.

Exactly.

The wide variety of different musical styles, all hugely successful commercially. That's one of the most fascinating things about the Doobie Brothers' long history.

[Darth Tater]

Originally Posted by paranoid70

Rush- Signals

On no you didn't....

Nah, had to be a joke. Nobody is that dumb.

[Jimmy James]

Originally Posted by scottrolf

....when Stevie Nicks and Lindsey Buckingham joined Fleetwood Mac.
....when Michael McDonald joined The Doobie Brothers.

All kinds of wrong.

[aliensporebomb]

Originally Posted by AaeCee

Amazing, but I don't think anyone posted this one:

When Jefferson Airplane became Jefferson Starship.

They went from the essence of cool, to an abomination.

Actually the real abomination is when they became Starship. "We Built This City" made them laughingstocks and the song "Sara" was basically built to get the lead singer laid.

[DCAddy]

Originally Posted by Allen in San Jose

..when Styx made "Mr. Roboto."

I would say-when they let mealy mouthed Dennis DeYoung take over-just for the hit potential...

[TwoTubMan]

Originally Posted by Trickstaaah

I'd say Clapton's jumped a couple of sharks -- first with There's One In Every Crowd

I'm as big a Clapton fan as you're likely to find, but that one got Frisbee'd into the Gulf Of Mexico the same day I bought it.

[kwaves99]

Originally Posted by Dumo

The Grateful Dead-Shakedown Street (Disco Dead)

While I will admit that it took me by surprise at first, I think it was just the Dead's homage to the era of disco which was so pervasive at the time. But in no way did they jump the shark.

[Jimmy James]

Earth Wind & Fire when Al McKay left the band.

[LPMojoGL]

Wow - 2 folks mentioned Led Zep II and one mentioned PF Dark Side of the Moon.

WTF?

Iron Maiden - I can't get into anything cut after Seventh Son.
GnR - GnR Lies. They only made one good album, imo.
Tesla - Bust a Nut, although I dig a lot of Forever More
Static X - Start A War

[grill]

Originally Posted by Dave Wakely

Roxy Music. Depending on opinion, either Manifesto or Country Life.

Manifesto, imo.

[grill]

Originally Posted by AaeCee

Amazing, but I don't think anyone posted this one:

When Jefferson Airplane became Jefferson Starship.

They went from the essence of cool, to an abomination.

[Jon Silberman]

Originally Posted by Dumo
The Grateful Dead-Shakedown Street (Disco Dead)

Originally Posted by kwaves99

While I will admit that it took me by surprise at first, I think it was just the Dead's homage to the era of disco which was so pervasive at the time. But in no way did they jump the shark.

The Dead's biggest mistake was hiring Lowell George to produce the album. Very poor fit IMHO.

Love Gilbert Sheldon's cover art (also check out the art for the Fabulous Furry Freak Brothers and Fat Freddy's Cat).

Far from the Dead's finest effort but how much can you complain about an album that includes Fire on the Mountain, I Need a Miracle, and All New Minglewood Blues.

My own band covers the title song, Shakedown Street. Definitely has a disco-ish vibe but try playing it yourself some time. There's a lot going on in that tune. The interaction between the two guitars and the bass on the signature lick is complex and fascinating. And you can learn much about modal lead playing from this song. Garcia's leads are brilliant. Most of us approach the song as being in the key of C as per my friend and former Thankful Dads (my band) bassist, Doug Johnson's following analysis. It is a heck of a lot of fun to play and a nice modal workout to boot!

P.S. Sorry for the digression (I know most people are here to put down bands, not learn theory), it just seemed relevant to the knock on Shakedown.

Jerry is basically jamming in the key of C Major (no sharps and flats), choosing which mode to follow based off the chord progression, and adding in some accidentals when he wants them (provides tension etc.) Let's look at the chords in the song:

Intro/Verses: Dm (D-F-G)
G (G-B-D)
F (F-A-C)
C (C-E-G)
C9 (C-E-Bb-G)

Bridge: FMaj7 (F-E-A-C)
Em7 (E-G-B-D)
D#7 - skipping this because he's just sliding between the Em7 to the Dm7 here - it's insignificant.
Dm7 (D-F-A-C)

Chorus: C7sus4 (C-F-G-Bb)
C7 (C-E-Bb)

Looking at the chords, it’s all natural notes with a single flat (Bb). On a piano that is all white keys, with one black key (Bb). Technically speaking, the key signature with only one flat (Bb) is the key of F Major. So, you could say the song is in the Key of F major/D minor (one flat -Bb) and play those modes and be perfectly within the key. They just may not fit the best or have the best fretboard pattern. Or, you could say the song is in the Key of C major and just recognize the Bb accidental in the C9/C7 chords that adds some tension. Since there are no Bb chords in the song, but several root C chords, this song would probably be charted as a C major song on the sheet music with no sharps/flats by the treble cleff on the beginning of each staff. The Bb accidental would just be noted in the measures it appeared with the C9/C7s chords.

OK, after that analysis, running on the assumption we call this a C Major song: I agree with pretty much everything the that was previously posted by Bill, except for one thing. His use of Dorian, Phrygian, Lydian, Mixolydian are appropriate in those sections of the song. However, the use of C Blues (with all the other notes added in) over the C Chorus/Jam section -- in my opinion -- is not the best choice. Choices are personal though, so take no offense. Look at the chords that are being jammed on:

C7sus4 (C-F-G-Bb)
C7 (C-E-Bb)

Those are the notes of C Mixolydian. And what was Jerry Garcia's favorite mode/scale? Mixolydian. If it was me -- I'd play the the rest of the song in C Major and use the modes suggested (D Dorian, E Phrygian, F Lydian, G Mixolydian) in those places of the song. You're basically just modularly jamming in C Major and as the root changes with the chord progression (hence modes). However, during the long C jam that has chords with pronounced Bbs -- just embrace the Mixolydian like I am pretty sure Jerry did!

[Robert1950]

Okay, had to look that up in the Urban Dictionary. I am not fan of pop. I have agree with the O.P. on Fleetwood Mac. I don't care that it is one the best selling albums in the history of Time and Space. BTW, Supernatural gets regular play on my mp3 player.

[Misterbulbous]

Originally Posted by LPMojoGL

Wow - 2 folks mentioned Led Zep II and one mentioned PF Dark Side of the Moon.

WTF?

Iron Maiden - I can't get into anything cut after Seventh Son.
GnR - GnR Lies. They only made one good album, imo.
Tesla - Bust a Nut, although I dig a lot of Forever More
Static X - Start A War

Not to be a donK, but how do any of these suggestions relate to "jumping the shark?". I know we've discussed the philosophy earlier in the thread, but aren't we trying to identify a band who made a last-ditch effort to draw attention to themselves or sacrifice integrity to gain record sales?

seems a large percentage of the suggestions are missing the point.

[AaeCee]

Originally Posted by Jon Silberman

Starship was NOT Airplane. It was half of Airplane, a different band with a similar name and the other half, Hot Tuna, kicked ass.

A lot of the rest of this thread is what others have noted - people defining "jumping the shark" as "I don't prefer what came later."

And if the Beatles had released just one single album - only their final one - they'd still be great.

Maybe, but I was keying off of the OP's definition which included two established bands changing the personnel mix.......like Starship.

Agree about Tuna.....Jorma, et. al. truly kicked ass. Still does from what I hear.