I need some serious picking help! this is bad!

[J.T.]

I have been using these picks lately and i dig them :
http://www.music123.com/Fender-451-G...23703.Music123

[buddastrat]

Originally Posted by wizard333

Pick wise, try Dunlop 208s. Very thick pick but with a bevelled edge that "snaps" the string like a much lighter pick tone wise, but has absolutely 0 "give" to it so it wont allow any slop in your picking....you use too much pick, it will let you know right away.

Also try heavier strings. They will also not allow any slop; thinner strings can bend and jump out of your way if you use too much pick; thick strings have less of a tendency to do that.

As far as alternate picking.......a lot of the advice about using the small muscles and relaxing more is good. But no one has said this: DONT ALTERNATE PICK! If what you mean by that is the strict "up-down-up-down" technique promoted by Steve Morse and a few others. When strumming, up or down makes a difference in sound. On single notes, it does not unless you let it. Do this instead:

Very simple concept: Always use the shortest distance between two points and move the pick straight at the string you are going for.

What this means in detail is that, if your next note is on the same string as the note you just played, reverse pick direction. Thats the fastest way back to that string. If the next note is on a string closer to the floor....you're stroke should be down. It doesnt matter one bit whether the stroke you just completed was up or down.......the fastest way down is......DOWN! Do NOT jump the string then come back up. You are just wasting time if you do. Conversely, if your next note is on a string closer to the ceiling.......pick UP! Doesn't matter at all what came before it.

Very simple concept in physics and it applies to guitar....with a given speed, shorter distances are faster. If you are "jumping over" strings before you pick them, you are wasting time, introducing non-sound producing wasted motion into your playing, and slowing yourself down for no musical reason whatsoever.

I love players like Morse or Howe but I have to say that they could make their lives a lot easier by eliminating the extra motion. I saw a Howe instructional video where he is talking about a line that moves across multiple strings, and he notes that you need to make sure you start the line with the pick going a certain way so you can make sure its going another certain way at the end so its "easier". Sorry, its easier if that is totally irrelevant and you just follow the shortest distance between two points rule. It becomes habit, you dont think about it while playing, and you SURE dont think "ok now I have to start the long line with the pick going this way....oops! Crap now the line is screwed......" Never. And it sounds EXACTLY the same.

As you noted, if you watch very fast players play, you see very little movement but walls of sound coming from the amp.........because the following is true:

A HUGE part of guitar "Technique" is about eliminating un-necessary motion and keeping your motions as small as possible with no un-needed effort.

Another bonus is that there becomes absolutely no technique difference between "sweep" picking and picking a scale, the technique used is EXACTLY the same and either will flow nicely without any conscious effort once you practice it enough, and you never have to think "ok I'm doing this so now I need to use this picking technique......" There is only ONE picking technique necessary.

disagree with some of this. Both alternate and "economy" picking have pros and cons. If you think they sound the same at their advanced levels, you either haven't worked at both of them long enough to develop, or you haven't listened enough.

Btw, there's more than just two styles with a flat pick. There's sweep, directional, rest stroke etc.. MANY ways and they all can give a different sound.

[Joe Gamble]

Originally Posted by buddastrat

disagree with some of this. Both alternate and "economy" picking have pros and cons. If you think they sound the same at their advanced levels, you either haven't worked at both of them long enough to develop, or you haven't listened enough.

Btw, there's more than just two styles with a flat pick. There's sweep, directional, rest stroke etc.. MANY ways and they all can give a different sound.

+1

That's what it's all about- the sound. The main reason I'm after serious alternate picking chops is the aggressive sound it imparts. Conversely, I find when playing bop heads and lines that I much prefer economy (sweep) picking for the sound- swings better.

[brad347]

There is good reason to explore and familiarize yourself with and, ideally, develop all possible picking methods. They all have their moments and they all have their sound.

[RichardB]

Originally Posted by strat a various

One of the fastest most accurate guys out there, Robert Conti, has a website. What he's doing must work, he's a blur.
An accepted legit technique from the 40s and 50s is to grip your pick in a fist, between thumb and edge of first finger, and make all right hand movement from the ELBOW. It's hard to get used to, but the tone is unreal, and once you master it, you can develop blinding speed. This is how Tony Rizzi played.
You need to practice scales every day with a metronome, and practice a little slower than your maximum speed. In a few months, you should double your speed.

Hey Strat, sorry to be a naysayer w/ your stuff again, but just about every single thing in yr post is wrong!!!

1. Conti moves his fingers "quick" but there is nary a note in time, so it's meaningless nonsense.


2. The "elbow" thing is a sure way to stiff, rigid and unswinging playing. It also makes dynamics within a line just about impossible. Nobody plays that way anymore (thank goodness!), and Jim Hall and Metheny showed us a hipper way to phrase lines. The older guys unfortunately tried to make the loudest possible sound, because they had to, but they then taught these methods to the next generation and so on. It perpetuated when it wasn't necessary anymore.
Also, there is no way u can play with gained up sounds and pick from elboe. So DONT DO IT GUYS, it sounds horrible....

[buddastrat]

Originally Posted by RichardB

Hey Strat, sorry to be a naysayer w/ your stuff again, but just about every single thing in yr post is wrong!!!

1. Conti moves his fingers "quick" but there is nary a note in time, so it's meaningless nonsense.


2. The "elbow" thing is a sure way to stiff, rigid and unswinging playing. It also makes dynamics within a line just about impossible. Nobody plays that way anymore (thank goodness!), and Jim Hall and Metheny showed us a hipper way to phrase lines. The older guys unfortunately tried to make the loudest possible sound, because they had to, but they then taught these methods to the next generation and so on. It perpetuated when it wasn't necessary anymore.
Also, there is no way u can play with gained up sounds and pick from elboe. So DONT DO IT GUYS, it sounds horrible....

I watched a few Conti videos and love his sound. Nothing wrong with that free time over the top of chords/changes. It sounds great. A lot like if Yngwie did jazz. Very loose. It inspired me to practice a little jazz stuff.

For high gain, elbow picking watch Vinnie Moore or Howie Simon. I used to play from the elbow and it can sound great. It's all about practice.

[gainiac]

Just a general comment about the metronome.

So many people think about it as being the little automated slave driver.

If that's how you feel you're not using it properly. The purpose of the metronome is to enable the player to conciously give up the primary responsibility of timekeeping so that he/she may focus more on what they are trying to accomplish.

Mine is tap tempo capable (DAW). I jus tap where I want to be and keep the volume real low, but it's there in the back of my head.

This way no matter what I'm doing it's got a tempo. I always slow it down as necessary.

It's good to put a piece of music in front of yourself as well. I've always found that by distracting yourself conciously by having to focus on reading something, even just a chart along with an improv track, that because it's shifted my focus off the microscopic analysis of the mechanics involved that I end up relaxing more and playing fluidly...

[gainiac]

Originally Posted by Julia343

FYI I find a lot of speed work intensely boring. Speed for speed sake is boring. Be creative with it.

You bring up a good point. If it is developed in a mechanical, non-musical fashion then it will sound as such.

One of the most important exercises I was taught/learned was to "push" measures.

Do a quadtuplet for two measures, then do a septuplet, followed by a quintuplet. Repeat as neccessary. Vary it up as well, meaning other multiplets...

The next level of this is developing pure accelerando and decelerando.....

No way am I there yet!!!!!!

[GovernorSilver]

Robert Conti uses a ridiculously paper thin pick. That's his way of reducing the pick resistance vs. strings.

If by "pick from the elbow" one means locking the wrist straight and moving the forearm up and down, I'm not sure Conti does that. I see his hand pivoting at the wrist - it's not locked at all.