Uber-geeky delay question, lads...

[JB Eckl]

OK, I come from the studio/production world, and I've become accustomed to having delays and reverbs on an aux send instead of in-line. What this means is that when you ride the delay level, or switch it in & out, you are not controlling the volume of the delay - you are controlling the amount of signal being 'sent' to an always-cranked delay. Stay with me...

Here are the benefits:
(1.) The delay is not in your signal path; it's being added to it. That means it's not coloring your signal. This is why people had parallel loops in the Rack days.

(2.) When you drop it in & out, the delays (or reverbs, etc.) trail off. That's why a lot of pedals now have a trailing mode, but that defeats true bypass and you lose (1.). Here's the kicker:

(3.) The feeling of riding the level GOING TO the delay is way cooler than riding the 'delay level' or 'mix level.' You don't hear the fakeness of the effect level being turned up & down. You're using the delay/reverb more like they do in old Dub and Zeppelin mixes.

So what I'm asking is... how do you do this with a regular serial loop and a regular delay pedal set to 100% wet? Is there a device that lets you create a virtual aux send? With MIDI or expression control? Ha ha.

Crazy, I know, but it just... might... work.

[lonelylooper]

Gigrig wetbox, Barge VFB-x or VB-jr, and this1smyne makes one.
Just to name a few I've discovered in my searching for the same or similar device you describe.

[Hallogallo]

Originally Posted by lonelylooper

Gigrig wetbox, Barge VFB-x or VB-jr, and this1smyne makes one.
Just to name a few I've discovered in my searching for the same or similar device you describe.

The Gigrig has expression pedal option for the blend.

VFB-x has expression pedal options for both the blend and the loop feedback.

VB-jr has no expression pedal options.

I have the VFB-x. Great pedal made by a great company.

[lonelylooper]

Actually the VB-jr has the option of a expression pedal for the input for like $20 more or something like that. The problem is getting one from Barge, I have tried for a long time to contact them, and never got any response.

[Hallogallo]

Originally Posted by lonelylooper

Actually the VB-jr has the option of a expression pedal for the input for like $20 more or something like that. The problem is getting one from Barge, I have tried for a long time to contact them, and never got any response.

Cool, I did not know that.

That's weird. I've never had problems getting a hold of Geoff before. Hope everything is ok.

[lonelylooper]

Originally Posted by Hallogallo

The Gigrig has expression pedal option for the blend.

VFB-x has expression pedal options for both the blend and the loop feedback.

VB-jr has no expression pedal options.

I have the VFB-x. Great pedal made by a great company.

Originally Posted by Hallogallo

Cool, I did not know that.

That's weird. I've never had problems getting a hold of Geoff before. Hope everything is ok.

I've only heard great things about the company and there products, I just can't seem to get one (maybe it's personal).
If you know a way to get in touch other than there info inquery email address PM me.

[Hallogallo]

PM sent.

[lonelylooper]

Originally Posted by Hallogallo

PM sent.

Thanks I'll give it a try

[sascha]

Hey JB,

same here ... I love to control delay mix (and feedback, too) while playing. And I don't want my guitar signal to completely run through a digital device. So I bought both the Barge Concepts VFB-X and the Xotic X-Blender to be able to do that.

Here's a video I made with the VFB-X (the delay comes in at 05:30):



The combination VFB-X + Delay has one problem: The VFB-X's "crossfade curves" suit better for dirt and modulation effects than for delay. At the middle position of the blend knob, you get 50% clean + 50% loop signal to make for 100% (perceived volume) of mix signal. If you mix clean and dirt, you want the overall level to stay constant in each position of the blend knob, so for this use, the VFB-X is perfect.

However, when you put a delay (internally set to 100% wet) in the loop, you will always lose dry volume when you engage the loop. You will probably not want that. If you mix dry and wet for a delay or reverb, you will rather want to keep the dry signal at 100% as you mix in more and more wet signal; you will want 100% dry + 100% wet at the middle position.

Here's a sketch:





The Xotic X-Blender is closer to the lower graphic. You still lose *some* dry volume as you bring in the wet, but not so much. So my current setup for delay is:

Xotic X-blender with blend control at noon; loop send => Volume Pedal => Line6 M9 => loop return. I use the volume controls on the X-blender to keep the dry level equal in loop off and loop on position.

In the M9, I put a DL-4 delay model in slot one, set to 100% wet. I use the M9's expression pedal input 1 to control the feedback of that delay. In slot two of the M9, I have the "volume pedal" model, controlled by the M9's expression pedal input 2; so this only controls the level of the delay.

Now I can seperately control "aux send level" to delay (volume pedal), "aux return level" (M9 Expression pedal #2) and delay feedback (M9 Expression pedal #2). If I want trailing delays, I control delay level with the "aux send" volume pedal. Now I only have to grow two more feet to be able to control all three pedals at once ;-)

If Barge Concepts made a "VFB-XXL" with switchable crossfade curves (many DJ mixing desks have that), that would be the perfect box for mixing delay ...

Best wishes,

Sascha

Originally Posted by JB Eckl

OK, I come from the studio/production world, and I've become accustomed to having delays and reverbs on an aux send instead of in-line. What this means is that when you ride the delay level, or switch it in & out, you are not controlling the volume of the delay - you are controlling the amount of signal being 'sent' to an always-cranked delay. Stay with me...

Here are the benefits:
(1.) The delay is not in your signal path; it's being added to it. That means it's not coloring your signal. This is why people had parallel loops in the Rack days.

(2.) When you drop it in & out, the delays (or reverbs, etc.) trail off. That's why a lot of pedals now have a trailing mode, but that defeats true bypass and you lose (1.). Here's the kicker:

(3.) The feeling of riding the level GOING TO the delay is way cooler than riding the 'delay level' or 'mix level.' You don't hear the fakeness of the effect level being turned up & down. You're using the delay/reverb more like they do in old Dub and Zeppelin mixes.

So what I'm asking is... how do you do this with a regular serial loop and a regular delay pedal set to 100% wet? Is there a device that lets you create a virtual aux send? With MIDI or expression control? Ha ha.

Crazy, I know, but it just... might... work.