2" thick Flying V not enough low end!!

[EADGBE]

I'm not sure maple tops are good for great tone. Anyway all guitars are different. The woods in your guitar may be just too bright sounding. For what you are describing I'd try a Duncan JB at the bridge. This should add warmth and bottom end. It did to one of my guitars.

[Rod]

With the Flying V design, there is very little wood where the pickups are mounted and that is one reason why you won't ever have the bottom end of an Lp. Adding a maple top accentuates the high end more giving the guitar overall a high mid type of voicing... I like the Dimarzio Super Distortion idea as some here mentioned. And can that roller bridge. A Gibson Nashville tunamatic will give you more of the fundamental tone back you need.

[Zingeroo]

I always thought the definitive Flying V tone was on Faith No More's song "Epic." That's not a warm tone, that's a cutting tone. Slice through the mix and into your skull like a railroad spike.

[Schafrocks]

Originally Posted by Rod

With the Flying V design, there is very little wood where the pickups are mounted and that is one reason why you won't ever have the bottom end of an Lp. Adding a maple top accentuates the high end more giving the guitar overall a high mid type of voicing... I like the Dimarzio Super Distortion idea as some here mentioned. And can that roller bridge. A Gibson Nashville tunamatic will give you more of the fundamental tone back you need.

I've got a V and just put new 500 k pots and a Suhr Aldrich now. It freakin Rocks. Plenty of low end. But, I tried several pickups. Had a hard time finding the tone I liked. Never had a guitar that the tone was that dependent on the pickup. But I kept trying because it plays great Does it sound like my Les Paul? No. But does anything. Not really. The V sounds more vintagy if that makes sense.

I agree on the tunamatic bridge.

[JLee]

I agree that it's probably the wood. Had a Edwards LTS-130 that couldn't have weighed more than 8lbs. I swapped the stock bridge and tailpiece to Tone Pros(tailpiece was the heavier zinc as opposed to the lightweight stock), new wiring harness and pots and swapped the Antiquities for louder, hotter, thicker WCRs. Guitar sounded exactly the same. Light, airy and lacked the low end of a good Les Paul. My vintage style Tele parstcaster could out Les Paul the Edwards.

[Branzell Guitars]

I've said it in other posts on this site.........if the wood on the guitar aint giving you what you want (assuming the pups and such are working right) you can throw pickups at the problem eternally and chances are very high you won't quench your tone desires.

As repairman/builders, we did that constantly in the 70's when Damazio and Duncan came out. There were tons of lousy factory guitars (especially Norlin Gibson's) coming through our doors hoping to have their voice improved. Gainy pups were the recipe of the day and it did change........ lousy guitars into a more gainy lousy guitar.

The wood, and that wood's inherent or influenced tone and musicality, and the builders ability/inability, or the factories luck defines it's sound as good or bad to you. If it is a bad gob of wood or wood combinations on a guitar most players can hear that and will agree if it is a dog. Just cuzz it is made of mahogany or maple or alder or ash or korina or bunga bunga or whatever don't mean it is a good guitar. Good builders can voice solidbody guitar woods if need be and that can very much improve that materials musical qualities.

If you are buying factory guitars play as many of your chosen model as you can....... without an amp. Do this in a quiet area. Listen and feel the guitar's resonance in your hands and against your body. The guitar that noticeably jumps around more than the others, and has richness of tone and clarity up and down the fretboard (play lotsa chords).... thats the one you want.

If it plays crappy that can be fixed. Screw the color, naked girl graphics, flamed wood and such because when it really comes down to it, the sound is what you are after if you are really a player.

Now that you have a good guitar swap pickups all you want, and it will change from, sounds good, to sounds different good!

The guitar is but one piece of your luscious tone concoction but arguably the most important one.

Your tone is out there you just need to know how to get there !!


http://branzellguitars.com/

[jaytea4]

+1 for stratigarius. A good guitar starts with a good/great piece of wood. If it's dead tonally, it will always sound like a POS.

[jcs]

Well guys in this case it is a bright tonal recipe, a lot of maple on a v shape.

I have to disagree that pickups can't make a substantial difference and this guitar is not necessarily tone dead, it is lacking bottom end which may in fact be partly because of the roller bridge and a pickup that is eq'ed more towards lower mids and bottom end could help.

I went thru this with my SG Special that had an overly bassy neck stock P90 pickup...I was told by many in the business that some of these 60's SG Specials are just darker in tone (which they are).

After much pickup and magnet swapping, i did indeed get less bass and more top end with a cleaner wind P90 and a mix of weak alnico 2 & 4 magnets.

Alnico 5 fully charged magnets are almost always bassier in my experience.

Is the signature tone of my SG Special still there? Yeah i guess it is but i can get way brighter, cleaner chords out of the neck pickup with more clarity and the bottom end is not nearly as overpowering when pushed into overdrive.

[Branzell Guitars]

Originally Posted by jcs

Well guys in this case it is a bright tonal recipe, a lot of maple on a v shape.

I have to disagree that pickups can't make a substantial difference and this guitar is not necessarily tone dead, it is lacking bottom end which may in fact be partly because of the roller bridge and a pickup that is eq'ed more to wards lower mids and bottom end could help.

I went thru this with my SG Special that had an overly bassy neck stock P90 pickup...I was told by many in the business that some of these 60's SG Specials are just darker in tone (which they are).

After much pickup and magnet swapping, i did indeed get less bass and more top end with a cleaner wind P90 and a mix of weak alnico 2 & 4 magnets.

Alnico 5 fully charged magnets are almost always bassier in my experience.

Is the signature tone of my SG Special still there? Yeah i guess it is but i can get way brighter, cleaner chords out of the neck pickup with more clarity and the bottom end is not nearly as overpowering when pushed into overdrive.

Never said swapping pickups can't scoot you closer to your sound. Not saying your's is, but it just won't fix a crappy guitar. On th V you might try a higher K 43 AWG wire alnico 2 pickup to smooth out the highs. In response to your SG neck position, humbuckers and P90s are notorious for being muddy/bass heavy even on "good" guitars. That can be due to a few things. You said you put a lower output pup there and that can be a good move. That would not be my first choice though. Something many players do not do is adjust their pickup height. Cheap, hell it's kind of a free mod. That alone can address the muddiness and improve tone demonstrably. Many players want that pup right up under the strings and that does blow out a hotter message to your amp but often tone pays that bill. Guys, try lowering your pickups and to compensate, bump the gain up on your amp a bit if need be..... or not. When you adjust pickups use a clean or slightly dirty signal to listen for the subtle changes. Try several heights. I wind custom pickups and use the alnico 5s and 2s on of my vintage output pups. Alnico 2s are good especially at the bridge. One last thing that without question can be desirable in humbucker pups is mismatched coils. The clarity and harmonic richness is crazy good! This works really really well in the neck spot. Get rid of the rollerbridge.Tone Pros...there is no better Tunomatic. Good luck and let us know if you get the v where you want it.

[Branzell Guitars]

Originally Posted by jcs

How are you certain its not partially the pickup?

I know this will get some disagreement (and maybe some laughs) but a plain old Dimarzio Super Distortion has gobs of low end and lower mids and i use these as a last resort....this pickup will literally change the frequency response of a guitar.

I know the Bare Knuckle is an excellent pu but this guitar may indeed have a natural frequency curve that tends toward the upper mids and top end.

Do change out the roller Schaller ABR as i and other suggested first though.

I have a very early 70's Dimarzio Super Distortion I would sell. I was around the Reno NV music scene in the 70's and was told this particular pup belonged to Montrose or Derringer but can't remember which one. I never did use it and don't plan to so it is available.

[jcs]

@stratigarius, i agree with you for the most part and have adjusted pickup height for the last 40 years...i tend to adjust on the lower side for the most part as well.

The stock 1965 SG neck P90 couldn't be helped much even though i lowered the pickup and pole pieces as you mentioned....the top end just is not there in this stock 1965 Gibson P90 pickup.

I suspect the magnets are partly the cause but i haven't had the nerve to pull the magnets and try something else.

On the Super Distortion, well its a distinct sound, not a PAF by any stretch but that is very cool that it belonged to one of those guys (both legends).

I've kept 2 of these SD out of dozens i have pulled from guitars, not my thing but hey, Ace Frehley, Tom Scholz, Al Dimeola and others made them sound very good....the guys in 38 Special used them too back in the late 70's.

Btw, i have used various strengths of alnico,2,3,4,5 & 8 which i get from Jeff at Highorder pickups.

[s2khawk]

Originally Posted by JLee

I agree that it's probably the wood. Had a Edwards LTS-130 that couldn't have weighed more than 8lbs. I swapped the stock bridge and tailpiece to Tone Pros(tailpiece was the heavier zinc as opposed to the lightweight stock), new wiring harness and pots and swapped the Antiquities for louder, hotter, thicker WCRs. Guitar sounded exactly the same. Light, airy and lacked the low end of a good Les Paul. My vintage style Tele parstcaster could out Les Paul the Edwards.

Awesome reply, and I do know WCRs can be thick and warm as hell so I get it. This not only helps with the V but really any guitar I plan to add in to the fold!

[s2khawk]

Originally Posted by stratigarius

I've said it in other posts on this site.........if the wood on the guitar aint giving you what you want (assuming the pups and such are working right) you can throw pickups at the problem eternally and chances are very high you won't quench your tone desires.

As repairman/builders, we did that constantly in the 70's when Damazio and Duncan came out. There were tons of lousy factory guitars (especially Norlin Gibson's) coming through our doors hoping to have their voice improved. Gainy pups were the recipe of the day and it did change........ lousy guitars into a more gainy lousy guitar.

The wood, and that wood's inherent or influenced tone and musicality, and the builders ability/inability, or the factories luck defines it's sound as good or bad to you. If it is a bad gob of wood or wood combinations on a guitar most players can hear that and will agree if it is a dog. Just cuzz it is made of mahogany or maple or alder or ash or korina or bunga bunga or whatever don't mean it is a good guitar. Good builders can voice solidbody guitar woods if need be and that can very much improve that materials musical qualities.

If you are buying factory guitars play as many of your chosen model as you can....... without an amp. Do this in a quiet area. Listen and feel the guitar's resonance in your hands and against your body. The guitar that noticeably jumps around more than the others, and has richness of tone and clarity up and down the fretboard (play lotsa chords).... thats the one you want.

If it plays crappy that can be fixed. Screw the color, naked girl graphics, flamed wood and such because when it really comes down to it, the sound is what you are after if you are really a player.

Now that you have a good guitar swap pickups all you want, and it will change from, sounds good, to sounds different good!

The guitar is but one piece of your luscious tone concoction but arguably the most important one.

Your tone is out there you just need to know how to get there !!


http://branzellguitars.com/

Yet another great answer! Been playing for 27 years now and still learning new stuff daily. I always strum electrics acoustically just as you mentioned and if I had a dime for every store cat that walked up like something was wrong and said "wanna a pick? wanna plug that in?"... uh no and no please leave me in the quiet so I can tell if this is a log or an extension of my fingers.

When you strum this V it sounds "jangly" its not chambered yet is 2" thick mahog/maple and only weighs about 7.5lbs total! I put a Bare Nuk Painkiller which is 43 wire but has 3 CERAMIC magnets to emphasize some wicked high mids so probably not the best choice I'm learning about matching pups better to wood I even saved a buddy from selling his all maple SG a month ago by telling him which pup should be in there now he plays it much more often.

[Davo17]

Cough.

Since nobody else has asked, what amplifiers/pedals are you using?