The b2 needs more love! What are some songs or instances you know utilizing it?

[JonR]

Originally Posted by russ6100

I asked Mario A. over at AAJ, and he said, "The Necessary Blonde by Gary Willis (New Real Book 2) uses a AM7#5/G# which is enharmonic of G#13susb9."

I'm looking for more...

Thanks Russ.
Amaj7#5/G# - if that's literally all the notes there are - isn't quite G#13susb9.

Relative to G# root, it gives

E# = 6 or 13
C# = 4
A = b9
G# = root

So as it stands, it lacks both the 5th (D#) and the 7th (F#). But it seems like a good partial example at least.
Could you perhaps give me a time reference for where the chord occurs in the video harmonicator posted? I don't have New Real Book 2, and while I don't mind checking the track through myself, it would be good to be sure where the chord is supposed to occur

BTW I did find this nice comment on the chords from the man himself (2nd reply):
http://garywillis.com/pages/archives...ask_apr01.html
I gues that ought to put us in our place...

[vhollund]

as a dissonance will always stand out more than a consonance.

Yes. Especially if you play it in the Bass.

1) If you have no examples of the Mel minor with 9 in bass yourself then what is your reference ? Apart holding on to an theoretical believe.

2) Playing A instead of D on the double bass will not change the sound of it much, just underline it.

3) There's still a place in the solo, 2:50, where Joe Sample plays Bm6/C very strongly.

[JonR]

Originally Posted by vhollund

Yes. Especially if you play it in the Bass.

If you have no examples of the Mel minor with 9 in bass yourself then what is your reference ?

Well, that's what I'm looking for - some audio references. If I remember right, you were claiming the existence of 13susb9 chords (after I asked about them). I also believe they exist. I just want some clear examples.

Originally Posted by vhollund

Playing A instead of D on the double bass will not change the sound of it much, just underline it.

It would make it a clear A7susb9, and not something that sounds more like a Gm6/D.

Originally Posted by vhollund

There's still a place in the solo, 2:50, where Joe Sample plays Bm6/C very strongly.

Maybe so, but the bass is playing F.
So even if you call his chord C7susb9, the F bass means it's not functioning as that, and that giving it that overall symbol would be misleading.
IOW, JS is choosing his voicing in full awareness of the F bass. I suppose it's difficult to say if he was thinking more of a dominant or subdominant idea against the tonic, and was maybe happy with the mix of the two.

It's a small point, and maybe I'm being too pedantic about chord identity and function .
I'd agree "C7susb9/F" covers what's happening at that point, even though this is a moment in a piano solo, and the original written sequence is a simpler Bbm6/F.

Here's the studio recording, and the bar in question occurs at 2:43:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tH2rg...feature=fvwrel
- I'm not sure I hear a C at all in there, even in the bass. (In fact the bass seems to have a passing low A.)
That doesn't mean the chord in the live version doesn't count; I'm collecting chords close to the one I'm after, as well as hopefully perfect versions.

[WheelchairBandit]

Mike Bloomfield uses the b2 extensively in his solos in the "middle eastern" sections of this tune.



Brian.

[guitarjazz]

The opening bar of Herbie Hancock's Tell Me a Bedtime Story.

[JonR]

Originally Posted by guitarjazz

The opening bar of Herbie Hancock's Tell Me a Bedtime Story.

Yes, that's a weird one! (I've played this tune before, but forgotten all about it; or maybe because I was only the bass player, and didn't take solos...)

Notated in the Real Book as a #1, not a b2, because (I guess) it begins with the 2, and goes on to the 7, not the root.
The line - supposedly on "Gmaj7" - runs A-G#-F#-E-C#-A-C#, then to a B on the following F#m7 chord.
So it's A major scale on a G bass - despite the bass not being in the scale!

Enharmonic with a b2, therefore, but rather different in effect.
There's a heavy lydian vibe in the rest of the tune, but this chord-scale goes one step beyond lydian.

[guitarjazz]

Originally Posted by JonR

Yes, that's a weird one! (I've played this tune before, but forgotten all about it; or maybe because I was only the bass player, and didn't take solos...)

Notated in the Real Book as a #1, not a b2, because (I guess) it begins with the 2, and goes on to the 7, not the root.
The line - supposedly on "Gmaj7" - runs A-G#-F#-E-C#-A-C#, then to a B on the following F#m7 chord.
So it's A major scale on a G bass - despite the bass not being in the scale!

Enharmonic with a b2, therefore, but rather different in effect.
There's a heavy lydian vibe in the rest of the tune, but this chord-scale goes one step beyond lydian.

When I studied with George Russell he had an interesting take on this...he didn't see it as a chordscale.
Check out John Bealsy's tune Bedtime Voyage....a cool mash-up of Beditime Story and Maiden Voyage.

[toddinjax@yahoo]

The "sound" of a b9/b2 is, like any other note choice, completely dependent on the harmony it's played over, and then again by it's eventual resolution. While using a b9 on dominant chords is very common, it's much less often used over a Maj7 chord. A great example of b9 on a Maj7 occurs in measure seven of Miles Davis' tune "Nardis".