For Kicks: What Key is SWEET HOME ALABAMA In?

[jchristo]

Originally Posted by gtrdave

Nice try, but you can play G major diatonic over the SHA chord progression all day long and every note in the scale works just fine.
No need to be limited by simple pentatonics. Ed King wasn't. He used G major diatonic on the original.

Fair enough. But revising pentatonic to diatonic does not do anything to change the real undergirding of my argument: F natural vs. Bb.

The rest of your comment seems to confirm that point. Working with what I'll term "D conventions" gives you a broader (and from my standpoint at least, more effective) palate than the typical "G conventions." It's all about that effin' F.

[Tone_Terrific]

Originally Posted by jchristo

Fair enough. But revising pentatonic to diatonic does not do anything to change the real undergirding of my argument: F natural vs. Bb.

The rest of your comment seems to confirm that point. Working with what I'll term "D conventions" gives you a broader (and from my standpoint at least, more effective) palate than the typical "G conventions." It's all about that effin' F.

And it is sharp in the first solo which incorporates a Bb as its blue note. How G do you need?
G, call it D mixo if you like. Same old notes.

[gtrdave]

Originally Posted by jchristo

Fair enough. But revising pentatonic to diatonic does not do anything to change the real undergirding of my argument: F natural vs. Bb.

The rest of your comment seems to confirm that point. Working with what I'll term "D conventions" gives you a broader (and from my standpoint at least, more effective) palate than the typical "G conventions." It's all about that effin' F.

No, it's really all about what the original writer and guitar solo performer did in the original song. There was no pentatonic anything about it and no "D conventions". Ed King played G major scale and he considers the song to be in the key of G major.
You can choose to improvise whatever you want to over the chord changes and create your own unique moments of consonance and dissonance, but when it comes to the original it's G major for the win.

[arthur rotfeld]

As shocking as it may seem, it doesn't matter what Ed King considered the key to be. It also doesn't matter that he used a whole lot of G's in his solo. Half the time he's playing over a G chord. The licks and playing are strong and he pulls it off.

Perhaps more telling is the short 4 bar lead early on. There he just plays the changes.

[ProII]

Originally Posted by Tone_Terrific

If it is in G I would expect very few uses of a C#, which I would expect in D. Where are the C#s?

The Cs in the melody are "blue notes".

I think most voters are seeing G-C-D chords and assuming the key of G but the progression is clearly not V-IV-I. The song is in D.

[A-Bone]

Originally Posted by arthur rotfeld

As shocking as it may seem, it doesn't matter what Ed King considered the key to be. It also doesn't matter that he used a whole lot of G's in his solo. Half the time he's playing over a G chord. The licks and playing are strong and he pulls it off.

Perhaps more telling is the short 4 bar lead early on. There he just plays the changes.

Indeed.

[KiwiJoe]

Key wise, the song is in G.

As for how to approach it for a solo, check this out. At 4:45 Steve Gaines is playing his solo using pretty much D min pentatonic. It has a bluesy, urgent, dark feel to it.

Contrast Alan Collins' solo right after it; clearly Gmaj/Em pentatonic. It's got the happy, bouncy feel from grabbing the 3rd and the snappy D-E-G resolution, avoiding that darker F natural.

Both are "correct" in their use based on the mood they chose to capture.

[toasterdude]

What key is the vocal melody in? No further questions your honor. . . .

[27sauce]

Originally Posted by ProII

The Cs in the melody are "blue notes".

I think most voters are seeing G-C-D chords and assuming the key of G but the progression is clearly not V-IV-I. The song is in D.

Haha, can't explain it? Then it must be a blue note or passing tone!

I think the modal explanation makes the most sense. It works on paper, and to the ears. 1# in the key signature.

[gtrdave]

Originally Posted by toasterdude

What key is the vocal melody in? No further questions your honor. . . .

The vocal melody is not in a key, per se, but it uses elements of D mixolydian (G major) and D minor pentatonic. Both of Ed King's guitar solos are in D mixolydian (again, G major). Billy Powell's keyboard solo plays right over the D-C-G changes using mixolydian (w/ an additional 3b) scales and 6th intervals.
Just because the vocal melody seems to resolve to a D note does not mean the song is in the key of D.
Taking the entire context of the song into account, including that rouge F chord that occurs, the melodies and solos all find their home in D mixolydian...otherwise known as G major.

[jchristo]

Originally Posted by Tone_Terrific

And it is sharp in the first solo which incorporates a Bb as its blue note. How G do you need?
G, call it D mixo if you like. Same old notes.

Well I was thinking more in the context of what my own experiment (improvising over the looped changes and alternating between my usual G and D soloing approaches) indicated. But in considering the recorded solos, as you suggest, the 3 or 4 Bb's do not function as blue notes per se. Obviously, this is just my personal interpretation.

The first Bb comes over the first C chord in the first solo section. He is essentially playing the changes here and shifts momentarily to C Mixolydian, which incorporates Bb. The Bb's in the second solo function as chromatic accents in my view, much like the single D# in the first solo. But the one F natural (2nd solo, 1st string/13th fret, just after the series of high G's) is a different story, with much greater emphasis as well as the hallmark blue note 1/4 bend.

You know what? They're two pretty nifty solos! I'm glad that I took the time to break them down.

[jchristo]

Originally Posted by gtrdave

No, it's really all about what the original writer and guitar solo performer did in the original song. There was no pentatonic anything about it and no "D conventions". Ed King played G major scale and he considers the song to be in the key of G major.
You can choose to improvise whatever you want to over the chord changes and create your own unique moments of consonance and dissonance, but when it comes to the original it's G major for the win.

King's approach is pretty well established. I was strictly relating observations resulting from noodling around over the progression for a while. And based on what I have described above, even King's solos (obviously unintentionally) confirm my findings. Not to mention the full on F major chord in the verse.

What do you hear when improvising over the changes? Do you get more mileage out of G major diatonic or D mixolydian with a blue note (F natural)?

[gtrdave]

Originally Posted by jchristo

King's approach is pretty well established. I was strictly relating observations resulting from noodling around over the progression for a while. And based on what I have described above, even King's solos (obviously unintentionally) confirm my findings. Not to mention the full on F major chord in the verse.

The F chord doesn't change the nature of the key of the song but for that instant which it's played. Much like any old jazz standard, a chord outside the original key does not change the original key of the song but for a moment.

Originally Posted by jchristo

What do you hear when improvising over the changes? Do you get more mileage out of G major diatonic or D mixolydian with a blue note (F natural)?

I grew up listening to and learning both the original version and the live version of SHA. Ed King's solos were primarily D mixolydian/G major, while Gary Rossington, Steve Gaines and Allen Collins each did their parts in D pentatonic, D minor pentatonic and G major pentatonic respectively.
When I cover the song I stick to the EK original. When I improv over the changes I do whatever I feel like doing.

[jchristo]

Originally Posted by gtrdave

The F chord doesn't change the nature of the key of the song but for that instant which it's played. Much like any old jazz standard, a chord outside the original key does not change the original key of the song but for a moment.

As stated, I voted G dude! I just think that the F chord is further validation of what I believe to be the most effective soloing approach, based on what I outlined above.

Originally Posted by gtrdave

When I improv over the changes I do whatever I feel like doing.

Hey now.

[Tone_Terrific]

Originally Posted by ProII

The Cs in the melody are "blue notes".

I think most voters are seeing G-C-D chords and assuming the key of G but the progression is clearly not V-IV-I. The song is in D.

What is clear is that the key, in the formal naming sense is NOT clear.


poll results showw....G!
Therefore we shall call it G....by popular demand...lacking any definitive and admissible evidence to the contrary.

/thread