Keeping Time With Jazz

[binge]

Guys, I really need help with this! I'm OK with tapping my foot to fast rock tunes on 1 and 3 but when it comes to jazz, and the swinging rhythms, I keep losing my place. I have setting the metronome to hit the beat on 2 and 4 but this really messes me up.

Does anyone have any advice other than to just keep practicing? Any books or instructional materials I should look into? How did you guys become proficient at keeping time with up tempo tunes?

[guitarjazz]

Originally Posted by binge

Guys, I really need help with this! I'm OK with tapping my foot to fast rock tunes on 1 and 3 but when it comes to jazz, and the swinging rhythms, I keep losing my place. I have setting the metronome to hit the beat on 2 and 4 but this really messes me up.

Does anyone have any advice other than to just keep practicing? Any books or instructional materials I should look into? How did you guys become proficient at keeping time with up tempo tunes?

Listening to recordings and not only keep track of the time but equally important the FORM of the tune. In other words, listen to So What, which only had two chords but is a 32 bar AABA form that keeps repeating.
Tap your feet, clap your hands, snap your fingers to the music. It might take you weeks, or months or years to 'get it' but persistence is the key to most things.

[Julia343]

Use a drum program.

[binge]

Originally Posted by Julia343

Use a drum program.

I have a drum program called Open Metronome in which you can have different sounds on different beats. It doesn't really help me much to be honest..

[capt mayo]

You're on the right track. Keep it up w/ the 2&4 clicks. I would put the metronome on 2&4 regardless of style, in order to make it feel natural to you. Along the lines of what
Jeff said, don't worry about going fast, just play at a tempo you feel comfortable with and gradually speed up. Make it easy to sound "good," rather than frustrating yourself with tempos you can't deal with. In other words, do your best to make music rather than chasing numbers on the metronome dial. Your dexterity will increase on its own.

[dsw67]

I always thought this video from the late great Emily Remler explains it pretty well.

[dani_boy79]

'white church' vs. 'black church' ...takes some getting used too, but like the other posters stated; practice makes perfect

[guitarjazz]

When the great Homer Haynes (look him up if you don't know who he is) was complimented "Your rhythm guitar playing is like a metronome" He replied,"Thanks, but a metronome doesn't swing".
I'm all for metronomes, in fact I'm practicing with one right now...but I know what he's saying.

[capt mayo]

Originally Posted by guitarjazz

When the great Homer Haynes (look him up if you don't know who he is) was complimented "Your rhythm guitar playing is like a metronome" He replied,"Thanks, but a metronome doesn't swing".
I'm all for metronomes, in fact I'm practicing with one right now...but I know what he's saying.

Of course, playing with actual human beings is preferable to a metronome . . .

[guitarjazz]

Originally Posted by capt mayo

Of course, playing with actual human beings is preferable to a metronome . . .

And listening to human beings.

[JonR]

Originally Posted by binge

I have a drum program called Open Metronome in which you can have different sounds on different beats. It doesn't really help me much to be honest..

metronome on 2 and 4 is the way to go; but it's supposed to be hard. It forces you to put beats 1 and 3 in the right place, which is good rhythm training. Think of 2 and 4 as the snare or hi-hat (if you can make the metronome sound like that, do it).

However, that's really purely for training your own internal "clock". If you want to just jam on some jazz tunes, practising other aspects of improvising, make it easier on yourself to start with. Clicks on 1-2-3-4 is fine to begin with (and can be hard enough!).

And try to play along with real jazz tracks, to get into the rhythmic vibe (syncopations and accents as well as swing). It is quite different from rock. Rock tends to overstate the rhythm, filling all the space, nailing the beat down; jazz understates it. That's an important lesson for rhythm guitar especially.
The traditional practice aid is Jamey Aebersold CD playalongs, which feature real rhythm sections. I'd recommend a couple of those (they come with books with notation for the melodies and suggestions for scales).
http://www.jazzbooks.com/mm5/merchan...ry_Code=AEBPLA

[binge]

Thanks guys for all the suggestions. I was trying to learn some Pat Metheny licks from a tab book I had but I guess I'll have go back to basics and keep working on it...

[Rad Skronker]

great explanation of jazz time

Originally Posted by dsw67

I always thought this video from the late great Emily Remler explains it pretty well.