New Scumback PAPER voice-coil speakers?

[vanguard]

http://www.scumbackspeakers.com/pvc.html

so what's the deal with these? what kind of sonic differences can i expect to hear over copper (etc.) voice coils? the disadvantage of them is that their power ratings are FOR REAL, with the possibility of fire

so what is the advantage/trade-off in exchange for the fire hazard? if i already have a cele blue, any reason to check these out?

[MadFrank]

I saw the Pete Thorn demo of these. They sound very good, yet have a distict voice. Very woody and acoustic. Scumback do warn that when purchased, there are no refunds for these speakers!

[Dave_C]

The YouTube on the Scumback site shows them to be a little brighter than the standard M75, with a little more of that reedy, woody mid 60s tone. I have a quad coming this Sat and will post my findings!

[DICKIE C]

Dave, I expect a FULL and DETAILED report!

[Dave_C]

Originally Posted by DICKIE C

Dave, I expect a FULL and DETAILED report!

You know that's not my nature, right?

[Scumback Speakers]

Originally Posted by Dave_C

You know that's not my nature, right?

We know, but could you make an exception this time, please?

[jimpridx]

Originally Posted by Scumback Speakers

We know, but could you make an exception this time, please?

Too frickin' funny!.......

BTW, Jim....the H, J & M all arrived safely and sound great! Thanks!

[vanguard]

finally listened to the pete demos. those PVC's sound great! i wish i could'a heard a regular scumnico vs. a PVC scumnico, but oh well. from the demo, it sounds to me like the PVC H75 is the winner; it's really brilliant and full-spectrum, but has a bit of needed warmth the regular H75 lacks to my ears.

Jim, if i were to run a VIC105 5/10 watt amp and sometimes a brownface 12w princeton would i be safe with any of the PVC models? the previous wattage ratings are just that; i imagine they kick out a little more juice when they're cooking. . .

[Scumback Speakers]

Originally Posted by jimpridx

Too frickin' funny!.......

BTW, Jim....the H, J & M all arrived safely and sound great! Thanks!

You are welcome, sir. Thanks should go to the client who swapped one of his H's for an M so you could have that one, though.

Originally Posted by vanguard

finally listened to the pete demos. those PVC's sound great! i wish i could'a heard a regular scumnico vs. a PVC scumnico, but oh well. from the demo, it sounds to me like the PVC H75 is the winner; it's really brilliant and full-spectrum, but has a bit of needed warmth the regular H75 lacks to my ears.

Jim, if i were to run a VIC105 5/10 watt amp and sometimes a brownface 12w princeton would i be safe with any of the PVC models? the previous wattage ratings are just that; i imagine they kick out a little more juice when they're cooking. . .

If you're talking about the H75-PVC, I think you'll be good. The M75-PVC would be borderline.

[Frank Speak]

I'd like to hear a demo A/B comparison of the Scumback version of the Greenback and a Greenback. You know, like Rivera has on their site with the loop demo of all the different speakers, using the same player, same riff, same guitar, same amp, same cab.

[Scumback Speakers]

I don't know why they (Rivera) didn't do that when he had the M75 and Scumnico there a couple of years back. I thought he did. There is more than one speaker demo they've done. You might want to check youtube to see if they still have it posted up there.

[908SSP]

Originally Posted by vanguard

http://www.scumbackspeakers.com/pvc.html

so what's the deal with these? what kind of sonic differences can i expect to hear over copper (etc.) voice coils?....

.....

I just want to clear something up before people start thinking this wrong. The coil itself is copper on most speakers some few might have aluminum but the only ones I know of are in the hi-fi industry. The coil is wrapped around a form or former it is a tube of material that holds the wire. The wire is glued to the tube using different glues. The tube itself is made from a variety of materials. With the Paper Voice Coil speaker PVC the tube is made from paper. The coil of the speaker conducts the electricity and gets warm when the coils resistance is too much for the amount of current the amp is trying to push through the wire coil. When the coil gets warm a number of failure modes can happen the glue can melt the tube can lose shape and the tube can if hot enough catch fire. This is unlikely to have enough heat to catch the cone itself on fire but it does without a doubt destroy the tube and speaker. Tube made from arimide, cotton or other material can resist this heat better and is part of the reason they can handle more power. These tubes weigh different amounts and impart inertia to the cone coil assembly and change its tone.

[Dave_C]

Originally Posted by Scumback Speakers

We know, but could you make an exception this time, please?

Maybe for you, Jim, I can make this one exception.

[StockRock]

Originally Posted by 908SSP

I just want to clear something up before people start thinking this wrong. The coil itself is copper on most speakers some few might have aluminum but the only ones I know of are in the hi-fi industry. The coil is wrapped around a form or former it is a tube of material that holds the wire. The wire is glued to the tube using different glues. The tube itself is made from a variety of materials. With the Paper Voice Coil speaker PVC the tube is made from paper. The coil of the speaker conducts the electricity and gets warm when the coils resistance is too much for the amount of current the amp is trying to push through the wire coil. When the coil gets warm a number of failure modes can happen the glue can melt the tube can lose shape and the tube can if hot enough catch fire. This is unlikely to have enough heat to catch the cone itself on fire but it does without a doubt destroy the tube and speaker. Tube made from arimide, cotton or other material can resist this heat better and is part of the reason they can handle more power. These tubes weigh different amounts and impart inertia to the cone coil assembly and change its tone.

Thank you for clarifying that! Just got a quad of the PVC M75s in, and I look forward to trying them out in different ways over the next week.

[murky69nz]

I've got a PVC Alnico incoming - can't wait! First purchase off Jim and he was very helpful.

I'm (quietly) hopeful it'll give me a little closer to that "vintage" blue sound - I've tried/have all the modern alternatives and have even got some really old alnicos (a Rola, Cele 74, and Goodmans Audiom 60) that have been reconed (mainly out of necessity) with 53H1777 and 6402's (which incorporate modern voice coil material) - the older recones end up sounding VERY close to the RI Blue (i.e. great) - but they all sound a little too hi-fi (bass is a little big, highs are predominant, and that 60's 500-800hz crunch is a little lacking) when compared to an original B026 G12 I have .

Maybe the paper voice coil former is one of the missing "secret" ingredients?

Will post some thoughts in due course......