65Amps and new production tubes

[19181911]

I have been an old production snob when it comes to tubes until recently.

My Lil Elvis had an intermittent noise issue when I purchased it and it was sent back to the factory and replaced.

When I got it back home I put my favorite 12AX7 in V1 and my favorite 6BQ5's replaced the factory power tubes and all was well for the last year (lots of use).

Recently one of the power tubes went south, so I put the stock EL84's back in and put the stock V1 back in for grins as well.

Well, this amp sounds better then it ever has, I guess the speaker is now broken in and it must have been needing a tube change for a while. If it ever needs retubing, I'm going with what it has (or send it to 65 for retubing)

The sound is much like what I remember my best amp (65 Princeton Reverb) sounding like (I know 6V6 vs EL84, but)

[gmcelroy]

My 65amps Empire is pickiest amp I've ever owned regarding which tubes are in it! My amp had developed a swooshing sound and I when I put new tubes in it the sound was still there but a little bit quieter so I thought something was wrong with the amp and I sent an email to 65amps that evening. During the night I thought to myself that usually any problem with tube amps is generally 99% of the time tube related so the first thing the next morning I began pulling tubes with some other preamp tubes I had which then fixed the issue after I found teh problem tube. The weird part is that the one that was causing the swooshing sound was brand new and works great in one of my other amps.... go figure!

[B Vance]

I've played around with lots of different tubes in my Empire. In the end, I found that I liked the factory tubes that came in the amp the best.

In several of Dan Boul's podcast interviews and "Lunch With Dan Boul" webcasts on Ustream he talks about how he purposefully designs and manufactures his amp circuits to influence the behavior of current production tubes to mimic the behavior of the old military surplus tubes. Personally, as a user, this is a huge positive for me. I like not having to retube an amp with NOS tubes, but I like the idea even more knowing that I won't be sacrificing tone.

[joek86]

I started a thread about a year or so stating the same things....I have a Tupelo that I regard as my number one amp. I have played with tubes quite a bit, but fresh new production tubes seem to sound best. Kind of makes sense that a new amp would be voiced for easily available new pro tubes....

I have not had this experience with other amps that I have owned which is the perplexing thing......

Bottom line is that the amp sound GREAT!

~Joe

[gtrs]

My London sounds best with NOS tubes.
I need to put NOS EL-84's in it, then it will be complete.
It seems NOS Rectifier tubes are almost always the best way to go too.
My other 65amps did not have the same response though, except for the Soho EF86. Again, NOS made a big difference there.

[Hipster Dofus]

My london was great with JJ pre's, but an Amperex BB was just way better. Watch what you put in for EL84s though, mine toasted a few NOS. Kinda hard on them. It you play the amp hard, I would change them every 30 gigs or so. JJs are cheap, and every time the amp sounded fresh again.

YMMV

[gtrs]

Originally Posted by Hipster Dofus

My london was great with JJ pre's, but an Amperex BB was just way better. Watch what you put in for EL84s though, mine toasted a few NOS. Kinda hard on them. It you play the amp hard, I would change them every 30 gigs or so. JJs are cheap, and every time the amp sounded fresh again.

YMMV

I know, it's such a juggling act of tube life vs. return on money spent for NOS EL-84's. They certainly are not known for a long life expectancy!
I just don't like the way the JJ's are breaking up in my amp. I will admit to not spending a lot of time trying different phase inverter tubes, that could be part of the issue. Sure would like to use new tubes for gigs and have NOS just for recording purposes.
Anyone had good experience with the new Mullard EL-84's or TAD's???

[jcs]

Unless you check the current draw on power tubes there is no way to know you are in a safe range of dissipation even with cathode biased amps.

EL84 are notorious for varying widely in current draw (as are many power tubes).

[Timbre Wolf]

I'd precaution you against comparing worn-out vintage power tubes to a fresh new set of current-production tubes, and then making a blanket conclusion about current-production vs. NOS. Heck, even comparing a worn-out set of recent production power tubes with true NOS replacements is a completely pointless exercise.

If you want to make a meaningful comparison, compare two fresh sets of power tubes. Then you may know something useful. Even better if you have matched sets with comparable current draw, as JCS pointed out.

- Thom

[19181911]

Originally Posted by jcs

Unless you check the current draw on power tubes there is no way to know you are in a safe range of dissipation even with cathode biased amps.

EL84 are notorious for varying widely in current draw (as are many power tubes).

Originally Posted by Timbre Wolf

I'd precaution you against comparing worn-out vintage power tubes to a fresh new set of current-production tubes, and then making a blanket conclusion about current-production vs. NOS. Heck, even comparing a worn-out set of recent production power tubes with true NOS replacements is a completely pointless exercise.

If you want to make a meaningful comparison, compare two fresh sets of power tubes. Then you may know something useful. Even better if you have matched sets with comparable current draw, as JCS pointed out.

- Thom

Good points, but I am still amazed at how good the amp sounds with new production tubes and will not be spending more on NOS (from reliable sources) for this amp.

[clothwiring]

What are some good EL84s for the London?

[Jon C]

Originally Posted by 19181911

I have been an old production snob when it comes to tubes until recently.

My Lil Elvis had an intermittent noise issue when I purchased it and it was sent back to the factory and replaced.

When I got it back home I put my favorite 12AX7 in V1 and my favorite 6BQ5's replaced the factory power tubes and all was well for the last year (lots of use).

Recently one of the power tubes went south, so I put the stock EL84's back in and put the stock V1 back in for grins as well.

Well, this amp sounds better then it ever has, I guess the speaker is now broken in and it must have been needing a tube change for a while. If it ever needs retubing, I'm going with what it has (or send it to 65 for retubing)

What are the original EL84s that 65 Amps uses/used in the Lil Elvis?

thx.

[gtrs]

Originally Posted by Timbre Wolf

I'd precaution you against comparing worn-out vintage power tubes to a fresh new set of current-production tubes, and then making a blanket conclusion about current-production vs. NOS. Heck, even comparing a worn-out set of recent production power tubes with true NOS replacements is a completely pointless exercise.

If you want to make a meaningful comparison, compare two fresh sets of power tubes. Then you may know something useful. Even better if you have matched sets with comparable current draw, as JCS pointed out.

- Thom

Not sure who your referencing here but in any case if your going to compare you of course would have to compare apples to apples as you pointed out. My point was EL-84's don't have a super long life in most any guitar amp. I've heard NOS Mullard EL-84's make ALL the difference in a Dr.Z Carmen Ghia but at over $180 for a duet it's a bitter pill to swallow. I'm almost afraid to try 'em in my London because it's likely I'll get hooked on them and be buying Mullards once a year for the darn thing.