What's your best advice for improving picking speed and accuracy?

[p.j.]

Originally Posted by KRosser

I would rather listen to Vernon Reid all day than listen to Guthrie Govan for ten minutes.

No personal disrespect intended toward either by that statement.

Not really up on my Guthrie but I've liked Vernon since he was in Ronald Shannon's Decoding Society when I was in college. I love his duet cd w/ Bill Frisell also. He is very musical to my ears.

PJ

[Tomo]

Originally Posted by Dave Orban

Tomo rocks!

Thanks Dave.

Tomo

[dazco]

Another thing you might try that i have found can sometimes be surprising is close your eyes when you play. Somehow it seems like watching your fingers can be confusing and when you only go by feel it seems to allow your mind to get used to the feel of what your are doing which is what you are after in the first place right? When you watch it seems to confuse things by adding the visual. Works for me anyways.

[mojazzmo]

Originally Posted by xAx1s

I have just started trying to improve my picking and i have noticed a couple of things that may help you.

1. Tension will slow you down and may even cause long term injury. Guthrie mentions in a video that you should believe what you are doing isn't difficult, tell yourself that, to try and relax as you play. Look for tension and try to ease up/slow down when you spot it.

2. Minimize motion. The pick should move the bare minimum to play the notes. Large motions will make it tougher to get up in speed.

3. Look for areas in your technique that are hindering you. For instance, i have always anchored my pinky to the body/pickguard. I noticed that this is causing tension in my wrist and bending it unnaturally as i play. I have just begun playing more ala Paul Gilberts hand positioning and my hand moves much easier/looser. I don't FEEL as if i have as much control yet, but i have more speed and accuracy (if that makes sense)

4. The goal (in my opinion) is that whatever you play should feel and be completely natural to you. It shouldn't feel like hard work or that you have to fight the instrument. The only way to do that is repetition. Slowly over time it just gets easier and easier but you have to put in the time/effort.


Two books i recommend -

http://www.amazon.com/Rock-Disciplin...0321164&sr=8-3

http://www.amazon.com/Speed-Mechanic...0321209&sr=1-1

Some good videos below on picking, good luck!!

Hmmmmmm.........Interesting schools of thought. I watched the second Guthrie video and here are a few of my thoughts.

• I use a small 2mm dunlop jazz pick with the pointy end but modify them to take the point off and round the tip to get the same effect Metheny and Robben Ford use by using the wrong end of a standard pick. I just like the feel and the tone way more. For me, which is totally personal, I can control the dynamics alot easier as well.
• My college jazz gtr teacher had great chops with alternate picking and legato playing and he pretty much exclusively used circular motion picking.
• Doesn't Eric J advocate picking at an angle, the exact opposite to what Guthrie says is wrong and will produce poor tone? His tone doesn't seem to suffer.

I'm not trying to trash Guthrie as his playing, chops and musicianship speak for themselves but I found his right and wrong analogies a little heavy handed. In the end, ask yourself....how much "technique" do you need to make music? I think once you have a basic grasp of moderate technique, just learn melodies and your technique and musical repatoire will increase.

[buddastrat]

Originally Posted by mojazzmo

Hmmmmmm.........Interesting schools of thought. I watched the second Guthrie video and here are a few of my thoughts.

• I use a small 2mm dunlop jazz pick with the pointy end but modify them to take the point off and round the tip to get the same effect Metheny and Robben Ford use by using the wrong end of a standard pick. I just like the feel and the tone way more. For me, which is totally personal, I can control the dynamics alot easier as well.
• My college jazz gtr teacher had great chops with alternate picking and legato playing and he pretty much exclusively used circular motion picking.
• Doesn't Eric J advocate picking at an angle, the exact opposite to what Guthrie says is wrong and will produce poor tone? His tone doesn't seem to suffer.

I'm not trying to trash Guthrie as his playing, chops and musicianship speak for themselves but I found his right and wrong analogies a little heavy handed. In the end, ask yourself....how much "technique" do you need to make music? I think once you have a basic grasp of moderate technique, just learn melodies and your technique and musical repatoire will increase.

Those are very good points mojazzmo. Eric Johnson was a big influence for me. Because he can do so many techniques so well, and with such amazing tone which is even more important. The pick hand is such a big part of a guitarist's sound. The way EJ uses so many strokes, brush, circle, alternate, sweep... they all yield different sounds. Much more to it, than just alternate picking 3nps scales.

[NG7]

Originally Posted by mojazzmo

• Doesn't Eric J advocate picking at an angle, the exact opposite to what Guthrie says is wrong and will produce poor tone? His tone doesn't seem to suffer.

I'm not sure how you missed it, but Guthrie actually said both ways were valid immediately after demonstrating the differences.

[DakotaRed]

My tip? Videotape yourself playing. You might be surprised what you see. I did that the other night with my iPad and I had WAY more finger motion going on than I thought! Looking down on my hand, it looks like I'm playing with all wrist motion, but from viewed from the front it's a whole different story.

[djdrdave]

Great thread. Can't wait to read all the posts and watch the videos.

[vhollund]

Originally Posted by NG7

I'm not sure how you missed it, but Guthrie actually said both ways were valid immediately after demonstrating the differences.

This is a very interesting topic because it affect the attack and the tone
When playing/raking a chord the angled pick tend to work better closer to the neck where the attack of each string becomes less noticeable
Where as at the bridge the tension is higher and a more direct forcefully rake works well

I wish I could control all the different tones and subtleties

Please post further observations to this much too neglected topic

[Ryguy]

I think picking speed and accuracy, or technique on the whole is an extremely personal thing, as evidences by the numerous different approaches by various guitarists across the style spectrum. It really has every to do with the nuances of your sound, and the unique nature of your persona l phrasing, fast or slow. Kenny Burrell for example, has really strange technique, and it is integral to his sound (like it or not). Pat Martino refers to his right hand as a "drop-out" in that he was never able to dictate to it what type of technique to apply; it just formed organically, and resisted any attempt to change it.

After years of dabbling in Jazz, I finally am starting to work up some sustained speed and accuracy for the more uptempo stuff, and all of the different nuances I leaned playing blues, rock and other styles certainly have their place, but I do find that I have to adapt my technique according to tempo. What I have come to realize however is that that adaptation (in my case) has to be organic, I simply struggle to much with a strict picking regimen to increase technique. Which obviously is not to say that such an approach doesn't work, and couldn't for me or anyone else, just not something I enjoy pursuing. I simply prefer the results of working on actual melodies and lines, and letting the technique improvement happen, than focusing on the technique alone. The end result seems exponentially more musical to me.

So, to answer the OP question, MY best advice is to let the context of what you are trying to learn determine the technique, whenever possible. I found that once I started having longer more melodic lines that I didn't have to think about, and which I could string together easily, speed came along really quickly, as did an understanding of phrasing and its relation to tempo and the beat. So start with a solo you really enjoy, that is challenging for you in terms of tempo, precision, strings jumps, etc., and simply try learning it with your technique, and pushing yourself to play it faster and faster, without sacrificing the integrity of the lines. Basically instead of trying to "learn to play fast" try to learn a line, solo, or melody, that is played really fast. Your hands will catch up. It's similar to the way a child learns language, which is in a very organic, trial and error based fashion. MY two cents. Great topic as always!

[Ribar]

Rather then opening a new topic, i thought ill post my question here. I have been working on my alternate picking for a while, i have seen improvement etc. however i have come to a show stopper and perhaps some of you shredders were in the same boat and might have a way around it.

Basically what i have noticed is at higher speeds the bottom E and A strings tend to vibrate wider and that is effecting my picking attack. So as i am picking through the bottom strings at fast speed the vibration of lower E and A strings hits my pick which causes me to not have accurate picking.

What i have found that works a little bit is if i a slightly palm mute the bottom strings this prevents the to much string vibration and helps with cleaner picking. Is this how you guys do it? Any other ways around this?

Thanks,
Ribar

[FatJeff]

Originally Posted by Ryguy

I think picking speed and accuracy, or technique on the whole is an extremely personal thing, as evidences by the numerous different approaches by various guitarists across the style spectrum. It really has every to do with the nuances of your sound, and the unique nature of your persona l phrasing, fast or slow. Kenny Burrell for example, has really strange technique, and it is integral to his sound (like it or not). Pat Martino refers to his right hand as a "drop-out" in that he was never able to dictate to it what type of technique to apply; it just formed organically, and resisted any attempt to change it.

After years of dabbling in Jazz, I finally am starting to work up some sustained speed and accuracy for the more uptempo stuff, and all of the different nuances I leaned playing blues, rock and other styles certainly have their place, but I do find that I have to adapt my technique according to tempo. What I have come to realize however is that that adaptation (in my case) has to be organic, I simply struggle to much with a strict picking regimen to increase technique. Which obviously is not to say that such an approach doesn't work, and couldn't for me or anyone else, just not something I enjoy pursuing. I simply prefer the results of working on actual melodies and lines, and letting the technique improvement happen, than focusing on the technique alone. The end result seems exponentially more musical to me.

So, to answer the OP question, MY best advice is to let the context of what you are trying to learn determine the technique, whenever possible. I found that once I started having longer more melodic lines that I didn't have to think about, and which I could string together easily, speed came along really quickly, as did an understanding of phrasing and its relation to tempo and the beat. So start with a solo you really enjoy, that is challenging for you in terms of tempo, precision, strings jumps, etc., and simply try learning it with your technique, and pushing yourself to play it faster and faster, without sacrificing the integrity of the lines. Basically instead of trying to "learn to play fast" try to learn a line, solo, or melody, that is played really fast. Your hands will catch up. It's similar to the way a child learns language, which is in a very organic, trial and error based fashion. MY two cents. Great topic as always!

Excellent points, and I think I'm coming to the same conclusions myself. I tried to incorporate the whole George Benson picking thing, and it just ain't happening for me. Maybe I'm not persistent enough, but I had some fundamental problems with completely repositioning everything about my RH, and so now I find myself back to where I've always been, holding the pick fairly loosely in between thumb and forefinger, with my middle finger adding stability when needed for quicker runs. I've been drilling the Frank Gambale Chopbuilder thing for a while now, and I can see where my technique breaks down (pick gets squirrely at higher tempos). Yet I cannot get other techniques to work for me, so for now at least, I'm just focusing on playing melodically and hoping that the speed will come later.

One thing that isn't taken into account by all these "speed picking" regimens that I've seen is incorporating a swing feel into playing lines. Strict alternation may be good for building technique, but it goes out the window when you try to play a fast Clifford Brown line with any type of "horn-like" articulation. In that case, I rely more on slurs to get the correct sound, which advantageously also just about halves the speed you need in your right hand.

I was thinking about all this while on a walk today, and it occurred to me that working technical RH picking exercises for speed is good, but in reality, for my kind of music (jazz), I rarely need the kind of sustained speed required for more shred-oriented playing. I mean, sure, I'd love to be able to play as fast as Paul Gilbert, but that's not really my bag style-wise, so probably the best thing for me is to let the music I'm playing dictate my technique. I guess I would liken it to martial arts training, where you drill technique far more rigorously than you're likely to need it in the real world. Then, if and when the time comes to use it, it's there.

[bluesman]

Originally Posted by Ryguy

So, to answer the OP question, MY best advice is to let the context of what you are trying to learn determine the technique, whenever possible. I found that once I started having longer more melodic lines that I didn't have to think about, and which I could string together easily, speed came along really quickly, as did an understanding of phrasing and its relation to tempo and the beat. So start with a solo you really enjoy, that is challenging for you in terms of tempo, precision, strings jumps, etc., and simply try learning it with your technique, and pushing yourself to play it faster and faster, without sacrificing the integrity of the lines. Basically instead of trying to "learn to play fast" try to learn a line, solo, or melody, that is played really fast. Your hands will catch up. It's similar to the way a child learns language, which is in a very organic, trial and error based fashion. MY two cents. Great topic as always!

I think you're right and I've started to feel this way more and more as I've studied the responses in this thread. There are so many ways to learn and improve and I'm feeling like this is the kind of approach that's going to work best for me.

[ivers]

Originally Posted by Ribar

What i have found that works a little bit is if i a slightly palm mute the bottom strings this prevents the to much string vibration and helps with cleaner picking. Is this how you guys do it? Any other ways around this?

Sure. that works, but I really like to damp the strings with the pick before I pick the new note. That sorta arised organically from trying a specific sound and attack*, and I don't really have a method for learning it, but it's at least an alternative idea to think about..

*I was inspired by piano players with a percussive, strong attack, but didn't want to achieves percussiveness the Al Di Meola Way, for most applications at least, because that strangles the sound of the string.

[Ribar]

Originally Posted by ivers

Sure. that works, but I really like to damp the strings with the pick before I pick the new note. That sorta arised organically from trying a specific sound and attack*, and I don't really have a method for learning it, but it's at least an alternative idea to think about..

*I was inspired by piano players with a percussive, strong attack, but didn't want to achieves percussiveness the Al Di Meola Way, for most applications at least, because that strangles the sound of the string.

That interesting approach. I don't think i have tried it. So i would imagine your picking movement across the string is very small, that you are not allowing the strings to vibrate to much with the pick back and forth?