Premier Builders Guild "confusion" issue....

[Route234]

Originally Posted by sfarnell

I know the meaning of slander and I urge you to go back through some of the posts in this thread wherein PBG has been accused of intentionally misleading customers. It was not stated as a matter of opinion, it was stated as a matter of fact. One better be sure of their facts and evidence before they accuse someone of intentional misconduct/fraud.

Exactly. Accusing someone of falsehoods and even criminal behavior is very clearly slander. Sometimes even stating your opinion as fact can be construed as slander. There are a couple of people in this thread that crossed that line. They flat out accused PBG of false advertising and it was very clearly pointed out that the "false advertising" wasnt even PBGs fault, but the fault of a dealer (who even came in here to admit it).

[ib2010]

It's 2012 and counting. Plenty of information available. Can't imagine someone buying a $2,500 + guitar and being "surprised". I think small craftsmen being able to Design and "license", thru a HIGH QUALITY build source is nothing but positive.

[CDaughtry]

Originally Posted by mabernstn

To directly address the questions raised related to "PBG" labeling, I would say that the decision, as Howard says, was made to keep PBG off of the headstock simply because we don't view PBG as a brand, but rather as a company.

Best,
Michael

Michael,

I appreciate you chiming in on our discussion. I think the problem some have with your position is that this isn't a "guild" in the ordinary meaning of the word. When I hear the term "guild," I envision fellow craftsmen getting together and pooling their resources to get 1) more and cheaper advertising, 2) cheaper raw materials because of volume purchases, etc. etc.
In your business model, the various designers(who you call "builders") are merely being paid X amount of dollars per guitar sold.
Thus, I think for better or worse, PBG IS a brand. How can it be anything else when it is either pocketing all of the profits, or suffering all of the losses, depending on how successful this turns out?
I happen to think you are missing out on a great marketing opportunity. I believe, as I think everyone else in this thread does, that Gene Baker is a KILLER builder. I would be proud to own one of his instruments.
Because of that, I think you ought to be proudly waving the Gene Baker flag on the back of your headstock.
But hey...that's just me.

[jackevorkian]

I'm just curious why my Two Rock Studio Pro 35 very clearly says "Premier Builder's Guild, LLC" across the back of it?

[mattmccloskey]

Originally Posted by jackevorkian

I'm just curious why my Two Rock Studio Pro 35 very clearly says "Premier Builder's Guild, LLC" across the back of it?

because two-rock is flat-out owned by PBG, the company and brand were sold to PBG.
Koll, Fano, etc. are having some models built by PBG's luthiers but they didn't sell wholesale their companies to PBG. Basically it's a different relationship.

[jackevorkian]

Originally Posted by mattmccloskey

because two-rock is flat-out owned by PBG, the company and brand were sold to PBG.
Koll, Fano, etc. are having some models built by PBG's luthiers but they didn't sell wholesale their companies to PBG. Basically it's a different relationship.

ahh...i see.

[whitepapagold]

Originally Posted by CDaughtry

Michael,

I appreciate you chiming in on our discussion. I think the problem some have with your position is that this isn't a "guild" in the ordinary meaning of the word. When I hear the term "guild," I envision fellow craftsmen getting together and pooling their resources to get 1) more and cheaper advertising, 2) cheaper raw materials because of volume purchases, etc. etc.
In your business model, the various designers(who you call "builders") are merely being paid X amount of dollars per guitar sold.
Thus, I think for better or worse, PBG IS a brand. How can it be anything else when it is either pocketing all of the profits, or suffering all of the losses, depending on how successful this turns out?
I happen to think you are missing out on a great marketing opportunity. I believe, as I think everyone else in this thread does, that Gene Baker is a KILLER builder. I would be proud to own one of his instruments.
Because of that, I think you ought to be proudly waving the Gene Baker flag on the back of your headstock.
But hey...that's just me.

"Built by Gene Baker" on the back of the headstock would be 100% acceptable.

Theres NO way to confuse who built the guitar in that case.

I find it soooo strange the way PBG tries to claim "made in Arroyo Grande" isn't smoke and mirrors. They know 100% putting a PBG stamp on the guitar is a NEGATIVE- ie why they didn't.

With this wishy washy marketing there is one good thing-

Im a full time engineer and of all the people I know, not one has any idea who PBG is... And with this type of approach, Im glad... and hope it stays that way.

Which is really too bad considering theres not one complaint about the guitars as "guitars" worth the money.

[mslugano]

Originally Posted by jackevorkian

I'm just curious why my Two Rock Studio Pro 35 very clearly says "Premier Builder's Guild, LLC" across the back of it?

You sound confused.

I suspect PBG could help clear things up but they don't seem to believe there is confusion among customers and/or potential customers so, as a result, don't see a business benefit to clarifying. Could there be a remote possibility that they are wrong and confusion, like yours, does exist?

It seems from their recent posts that your curiosity is your own damn fault for not doing more homework to ensure you are better informed.

[CDaughtry]

It doesn't look like the "confusion" is limited to The Gear Page:


http://www.guitarscanada.com/electri...tory-tour.html

[Route234]

Originally Posted by CDaughtry

It doesn't look like the "confusion" is limited to The Gear Page:


http://www.guitarscanada.com/electri...tory-tour.html

I dont see any confusion there. I also dont see any here either.

[John Hurtt]

Originally Posted by CDaughtry

It doesn't look like the "confusion" is limited to The Gear Page:


http://www.guitarscanada.com/electri...tory-tour.html

Cool video from Premier Guitar there. Obviously from when the original meeting was held, as all the original builders were at the shop.

[aarondavis]

One thing this thread is good for... it help me quickly update my ignore list. Thanks guys! Bunch of internet propeller heads hoping a business doesn't work out, because they don't like the marketing approaching. Some doing this while not admitting that holding themselves to the same standard is relevant… lol!

[sfarnell]

Originally Posted by whitepapagold

Im a full time engineer and of all the people I know, not one has any idea who PBG is... And with this type of approach, Im glad... and hope it stays that way.

Do the people you know in your capacity as an engineer know who JG, Fano, Koll, or any builder is?

[DWB1960]

Originally Posted by aarondavis

Bunch of internet propeller heads hoping a business doesn't work out, because they don't like the marketing approaching.

That and a bunch of apologists who love putting words into other peoples mouths.

[v-verb]

Originally Posted by aarondavis

One thing this thread is good for... it help me quickly update my ignore list. Thanks guys! Bunch of internet propeller heads hoping a business doesn't work out, because they don't like the marketing approaching. Some doing this while not admitting that holding themselves to the same standard is relevant… lol!

Are you kidding me? I don't think anyone wants PBG to fail - I certainly don't.

Just make it easy to identify what is PBG built and what is not. I don't see the big deal but perhaps you and PBG do.

Seems simple - add a PBG logo or something. Not everyone will get the "made in arroyo grande" or whatever they put on the headstock as PBG built.

But don't go to extremes and think many of us want PBG to fail. I don't believe that to be the case at all. Just an issue of transparency