Stiff Neck = Big Tone?

[fiftynine]

But hang on. As the neck gets thinner, the truss rod gets tightened further to compensate, thus retaining exactly the same stiffness.

Blimey, they're all as stiff as each other.

[LarryOM]

But the more that you rely on the truss rod to counteract the string tension, the less that the properties of the neck wood will affect the tone.

[HayekFan]

Being stiff and being under tension aren't the same.

[fiftynine]

Agreed on the first point.

I'm not sure about the second point. From a mechanical perspective, it's exactly the same. It's just a pre-stressed composite beam with a certain stiffness that can be measured just like a neck without a truss rod can be measured.

[DavidH]

The truss rod pulls the neck straight (back), by running in a curve. Even if we assume the stiffness is the same in the direction of string pull for the thin neck with the truss rod tightened (i don't think it is) it's not as stiff in the other direction (back). As the string oscillates the tension fluctuates and the neck is 'quivering' back and forth, like a bow.

Perhaps the stiffer neck wastes less string energy in neck movement back and forth and subsequently sustains longer. Perhaps the thinner neck softens/slows the attack of the note and has less sustain. Also possibly the bigger neck with more mass (more bass therefore, a commonly held convention) gives a thicker tone overall, with more sustain. The bigger neck can feel like it has more 'power' to 'get the body moving'. I think most lovers of teles or juniors with light bodies and big necks would know that sensation. What's actually happening, who knows.

Whatever, certainly the string feel and string behaviour is certainly differently on a big stiff neck vs say the rubber band feel of a thin profile, flat sawn fender neck. the difference in stiffness of the neck is pretty obvious to play.

[LarryN]

Tightening a single truss rod compresses the grain, which I hear as a stiffer, less open sound. I leave them as loose as I can get away with. The notes sound fuller and less stifled. I got used to the tone of a single rod and prefer them over a double. I think wood sounds better than the extra metal parts. I think the double rod has less compression effect, though. DavidH, I think you nailed it regarding the big neck adding resonance. A fret is a bridge as far as string energy transmission goes. It stands to reason, a bigger neck acts similar to a bigger body.

[Mike9]

I have a quarter sawn maple neck with no truss rod on a Tele I built. It has a big V to C profile and it hasn't moved since I put the guitar together. It's the most musical neck I've ever owned. Stiff feeling is not a word I'd use to describe it however. It just feels natural while playing.

[DavidH]

Originally Posted by jakey

You need to consider this in terms of resonance and elastic response.

The stiffness is not the thing; it's the ability of the sine wave to use the material of the guitar to resonate (or more accurately, vice versa), and that has a number of factors such as density, shape, stiffness and more.

I did a technical PHD study into the performance of cricket bats (wooden) and the correlation between how a cricket bat hits a ball and how a guitar produces a note is astonishing, as is the similarities in the characteristics of very resonant guitar timber and very elastic cricket bat timber.

interesting! I wonder if the more 'elastic' bat has a longer impulse with the ball (in contact for longer) and so a more powerful shot, like reducing the tension on a tennis racket.

[C-4]

I have a Vigier, which has a carbon fiber non-adjustable truss rod on it. The rod runs from the back of the neck right up to and makes contact with the fretboard's underside.

The guitar is not only very resonant acoustically and has volume unamplified, but has incredible sustain everywhere on the neck with no dead spots.

The neck is extremely stable and is not affected by climatic changes or differing string guages. I have been told that stiffer necks offer bigger tone. The body resonates all over and can easily be felt, even when plucking just the high E string, but very little vibration is felt at the end of the peghead when strings are plucked.

To me, this acts in a similar way as a tuning fork acts. Whatever the reasoning, this guitar has far more going for it then any other company's bolt-on neck guitars, all of which use a metal rod and drilled through neck. I have owned a lot of different bolt on neck guitars and the Vigier is the best, hands down without any contest.

Vigier also uses consistantly high quality woods, air-dried for years on all their guitars. Whatever they do in their guitar building process, their guitars are very consistant from one to the next.

[harryjmic]

Originally Posted by LarryN

Tightening a single truss rod compresses the grain, which I hear as a stiffer, less open sound. I leave them as loose as I can get away with. The notes sound fuller and less stifled. I got used to the tone of a single rod and prefer them over a double. I think wood sounds better than the extra metal parts. I think the double rod has less compression effect, though. DavidH, I think you nailed it regarding the big neck adding resonance. A fret is a bridge as far as string energy transmission goes. It stands to reason, a bigger neck acts similar to a bigger body.

Considering wood is cut straight, when the neck is straight is when it was close to it's original state. If the wood bends because the truss rod is loose is when the wood wood be compressing.

Overall, however I think this is an idiotic argument as what you really are experiencing is string travel, a straight neck can sometime impede this movement, especially if the action is low.

A bigger neck has more mass obviously, so in theory it should transmit more information, it all depends how good the wood is.

[buddastrat]

Man you guys are thinkin' too hard. My ears don't like the sound of a stiff neck everytime. It's too plinky. While it's very reflective and fast responding, but too much of it and the note doesn't have enough time to develop the lows which are slower.

A truss rod is a different thing, it's countering the string tension but the wood of the neck still has it's properties and pliability influencing the tone.

[Structo]

While I don't have anything to back it up, I think the mass and density of the neck plays a role in sustain, as well as the tuning machines.

Then of course the type of neck joint would also be a consideration.

You know the guitar when everything comes together right, you play it unplugged and can feel it vibrate against you.
Magic.

[Structo]

Originally Posted by Helldunkel

There is no mystery...

For exemple in the violin family, the bass bar is always fit under tension, this bring out the 'volume', 'punch' and 'liveliness' of the instrument because of the tension but after a few years of playing the natural spring in the wood is no longer there and the instrument loses its tone. This is very commun in the violin world, the bass bar can be replaced without any problem to give a new 'tension' to the instrument.

.

The sound post placement is critical in violins through double bass.

I don't agree about the wood losing it's "spring".

If that was true, do you think Stradivari violins would be coveted for their tone?

Sure wood can dry out, that is why one must monitor the humidity of the storage area and instrument case.

[LarryN]

Originally Posted by harryjmic

Considering wood is cut straight, when the neck is straight is when it was close to it's original state. If the wood bends because the truss rod is loose is when the wood wood be compressing.

Overall, however I think this is an idiotic argument as what you really are experiencing is string travel, a straight neck can sometime impede this movement, especially if the action is low.

A bigger neck has more mass obviously, so in theory it should transmit more information, it all depends how good the wood is.

As idiotic as I may be, you come across as insulting. I know the strings weren't being impeded in their travel when the rod was tightened. I play with a high action. I could hear a difference in the resonance, however. Compression from the peghead is applied differently than compression from a rod. Incidentally, it's called a compression rod.

[LarryN]

Originally Posted by buddastrat

Man you guys are thinkin' too hard. My ears don't like the sound of a stiff neck everytime. It's too plinky. While it's very reflective and fast responding, but too much of it and the note doesn't have enough time to develop the lows which are slower.

A truss rod is a different thing, it's countering the string tension but the wood of the neck still has it's properties and pliability influencing the tone.

I'm hearing it the same way you are.