Axe-FX II: Voodoo Chile (Slight Return)! (now with video goodness)

[iaresee]

Originally Posted by JubileeMan 2555

Keep in mind, I've still got a huge upward battle of learning how and if this unit can perform the same live. Playing at low dB in-room sounds through my stereo sound absolutely killer, but I'm a "pants-flapping-4x12" sorta guy and I'm pretty sure this thing won't be able to replace my Marshall halfstack for live use... but we shall see.

Scaling up and back down again is one of the most awesome things about using the Axe-Fx IMO. No worries there.

[JubileeMan 2555]

Originally Posted by Scott Peterson

...and you just might be surprised once you do see.

...very possible. I'm also aware of a few important factors:

A) Fletcher Munson Effect - means for the same good tone I hear at low volumes, I need to apply the FM curve to lower lows and highs and boost around 4k or something to get the same effect at high volumes

B) The Axe Fx is full range frequency, which means I have to remember to apply Low cuts around 70hz and high cuts around 5K (probably in the cab block) to properly account for how real guitar speakers handle the guitar frequencies. This is tough because the initial response to this is a "blanket over the sound" effect..but in a loud live environment, thats sorta what you need to keep the guitar in the mix correctly...

These two points are currently THEORIES on my part and whill have to be experimented with to really find the results.

Not to mention, the gear needed to make this thing perform live. FRFR monitors and power amps are FAR from my comfort zone. ANd just like any piece of gear, what works great for one guy, may suck for another.

My current goal is to go for one of those Matrix Power amps and feed it into the top-of-the-line JBL passive wedges. We shall see...

[Scott Peterson]

Originally Posted by JubileeMan 2555

...very possible. I'm also aware of a few important factors:

A) Fletcher Munson Effect - means for the same good tone I hear at low volumes, I need to apply the FM curve to lower lows and highs and boost around 4k or something to get the same effect at high volumes

B) The Axe Fx is full range frequency, which means I have to remember to apply Low cuts around 70hz and high cuts around 5K (probably in the cab block) to properly account for how real guitar speakers handle the guitar frequencies. This is tough because the initial response to this is a "blanket over the sound" effect..but in a loud live environment, thats sorta what you need to keep the guitar in the mix correctly...

These two points are currently THEORIES on my part and whill have to be experimented with to really find the results.

Not to mention, the gear needed to make this thing perform live. FRFR monitors and power amps are FAR from my comfort zone. ANd just like any piece of gear, what works great for one guy, may suck for another.

My current goal is to go for one of those Matrix Power amps and feed it into the top-of-the-line JBL passive wedges. We shall see...

I've had a long history here documenting my journey over the years from a traditional rig, to a hybrid modeling/tube power amp/guitar speaker cab morphing to a full-on all-in-one direct to FOH rig. It's had many bumps and bruises on the journey for sure.

It is indeed a very big paradigm shift for a guitarist to make - IMHO, far moreso than moving from tubes to a modeling based solution is.

Have fun with the pursuit and it's always good to remember that you can depend on what you do know to always be there for you if you don't like where your other pursuits lead you. Gear is just gear.

It's fun. When it works direct to FOH for you the first time... you'll really be blown away. Turned me into a poster boy for running direct to FOH... so watch out.

[Phostenix]

Originally Posted by cliffc8488

What value did you use for Transformer Match? Inquiring minds and all that...

Interesting. He pushed it up to 2.0 in the SRV patches.

[orogeny]

Originally Posted by JubileeMan 2555

...very possible. I'm also aware of a few important factors:

A) Fletcher Munson Effect - means for the same good tone I hear at low volumes, I need to apply the FM curve to lower lows and highs and boost around 4k or something to get the same effect at high volumes

B) The Axe Fx is full range frequency, which means I have to remember to apply Low cuts around 70hz and high cuts around 5K (probably in the cab block) to properly account for how real guitar speakers handle the guitar frequencies. This is tough because the initial response to this is a "blanket over the sound" effect..but in a loud live environment, thats sorta what you need to keep the guitar in the mix correctly...

These two points are currently THEORIES on my part and whill have to be experimented with to really find the results.

Not to mention, the gear needed to make this thing perform live. FRFR monitors and power amps are FAR from my comfort zone. ANd just like any piece of gear, what works great for one guy, may suck for another.

My current goal is to go for one of those Matrix Power amps and feed it into the top-of-the-line JBL passive wedges. We shall see...

hey ty,
why not go for a powered jbl? i use a qsc myself, and am LOVING the one-trip-out-the-door thing. . . .

[JubileeMan 2555]

Originally Posted by orogeny

hey ty,
why not go for a powered jbl? i use a qsc myself, and am LOVING the one-trip-out-the-door thing. . . .

For a couple of reasons:

A) I want to have the option to try my Axe into my '74 marshall cab if I feel like it... might be a great transition rig for me

B) Weight and amount of gear is never a problem with me. I gigged for 5 years straight bringing 2 fender amps, a vibratone and a 4x10 loaded EV cab to every gig!

C) I've heard GREAT reviews on how the Matrix amp ads some of that PUNCH lost in the world of 0's and 1's. Obviously I don't know first hand if thats true, but I figure its a great place to start.

With that said... I'm sure, like everything, I'll be experimenting. I'll probably start with the power amp into marshall cab...then power amp into passive wedge, and then start experimenting with powered wedges like you mention.

[javajunkie]

Originally Posted by JubileeMan 2555

...very possible. I'm also aware of a few important factors:

A) Fletcher Munson Effect - means for the same good tone I hear at low volumes, I need to apply the FM curve to lower lows and highs and boost around 4k or something to get the same effect at high volumes

B) The Axe Fx is full range frequency, which means I have to remember to apply Low cuts around 70hz and high cuts around 5K (probably in the cab block) to properly account for how real guitar speakers handle the guitar frequencies. This is tough because the initial response to this is a "blanket over the sound" effect..but in a loud live environment, thats sorta what you need to keep the guitar in the mix correctly...

These two points are currently THEORIES on my part and whill have to be experimented with to really find the results.

Not to mention, the gear needed to make this thing perform live. FRFR monitors and power amps are FAR from my comfort zone. ANd just like any piece of gear, what works great for one guy, may suck for another.

My current goal is to go for one of those Matrix Power amps and feed it into the top-of-the-line JBL passive wedges. We shall see...

For B, if you use a cab sim, it already handles that frequency response. That is the point of the cabs sims. The power amp simulation in the Axe-fx II also handles resonant peaks.

[kingjoemom]

For what its worth, I went from playing a 100 watt nmv superlead and 4x12 to a modeler/ FRFR rig and within just a few gigs I vastly preferred the latter, its so much easier/better. This is strictly my opnion.

Its so much easier to carry, i can take all my gear in one trip which is nice, stage volume is lower, which actually makes me play better because i can hear everyone a little more clearly, soundguys love the reduced stage volume as well. This was my experience.

[stratzrus]

Originally Posted by JubileeMan 2555

FRFR monitors and power amps are FAR from my comfort zone. ANd just like any piece of gear, what works great for one guy, may suck for another.

My current goal is to go for one of those Matrix Power amps and feed it into the top-of-the-line JBL passive wedges. We shall see...

I [also] want to have the option to try my Axe into my '74 marshall cab if I feel like it... might be a great transition rig for me.

I've heard GREAT reviews on how the Matrix amp ads some of that PUNCH lost in the world of 0's and 1's. Obviously I don't know first hand if thats true, but I figure its a great place to start.

With that said... I'm sure, like everything, I'll be experimenting. I'll probably start with the power amp into marshall cab...then power amp into passive wedge, and then start experimenting with powered wedges like you mention.

I think it's a great idea to try both and see which you prefer.

Some people have had great success with the FRFR monitors and with your knowledge you will have a jump on many others who have tried.

Many have found using an amp and traditional cab an easier way to get a traditional "amp in the room" tone as opposed to a mic'd amp going through a monitor type tone.

I think with the matrix and a 4x12 with the right speakers that you should not be disappointed at all and there's no reason why you can't get tones indistinguishable from a traditional amp and cab, but using the right speakers is critical to getting the results you want. Personally I have found Celestions to be too colored but others have used them and liked the results. My Axe II clean preset into my Randall RT2/50 with 6L6s powering a VHT/Fryette Fat Bottom 2x12 sounds pretty much just like my Super Reverb crossed with the clean channel of my Sig:X. That's exactly what I wanted for Jazz and Funk which is what I play most of the time.

To me, the main advantage of using an FRFR monitor is being able to hear pretty much exactly what the audience is hearing if they are primarily hearing the FOH not your backline. The advantage of amp and cab amplification is it sounds pretty much like what you are used to with a traditional tube amp.

[JubileeMan 2555]

Originally Posted by stratzrus

To me, the main advantage of using an FRFR monitor is being able to hear pretty much exactly what the audience is hearing if they are primarily hearing the FOH not your backline. The advantage of amp and cab amplification is it sounds pretty much like what you are used to with a traditional tube amp.

This is the ultimate goal. Hearing A traditional setup is fine and dandy, but I want the audience to hear my best sound. I've even been experimenting using pa monitors at gigs with my Marshall with good success to better hear what the audience hears. I would also assume it to be plenty satisfying since your tone live would sound like an album and not just some "hot mess".... But don't quote me yet, I'm in the infancy of this direction and can't judge how I will like it yet! ... But you can imagine some srv fans at one of my gigs suddenly hear this patch i made, and it's going to get them excited, a sound pretty much unpractical trying to achieve the natural route.

[cliffc8488]

Originally Posted by Phostenix

Interesting. He pushed it up to 2.0 in the SRV patches.

Indeed. That value would simulate an 8-ohm speaker on the 4-ohm tap. I was unaware that SRV did this, but JubileeMan is obviously an expert on his tone and gear, so apparently he did.

[TimH]

From a former SRVaughnaby - nice!

[trainwrecker]

Awesome awesome playing and phrasing. But the first thing I wondered when I heard it is if you had the transformer match a little too high, it just needed a little less compression, the notes standing out a tad more. Minor point though it really is great.

[JubileeMan 2555]

Originally Posted by cliffc8488

Indeed. That value would simulate an 8-ohm speaker on the 4-ohm tap. I was unaware that SRV did this, but JubileeMan is obviously an expert on his tone and gear, so apparently he did.

"expert"...lol...only as much as the internet and personal experimentation can make me

...but yes, for SRV's vibroverbs, Diaz installed bassman (head) transformers in them to beef them up since stock vibroverb OT are TINY. He even said he didn't care about the missmatch. Thats 4ohms into 8ohm speaker. I think its a key to how srv sounded early on.

Originally Posted by trainwrecker

Awesome awesome playing and phrasing. But the first thing I wondered when I heard it is if you had the transformer match a little too high, it just needed a little less compression, the notes standing out a tad more. Minor point though it really is great.

Two possible things going on. In the actual recording, SRV used 2 vibros and 2 super reverbs. the supers did NOT have the transformer missmatch. I might want to try replacing the "Clean" amp in the pair on my patch with a blackface fender with no mismatch in my 2.0 version and see what happens. Also, which I'm kicking myself a bit about, is that my strings on my strat are old. I think 3-4 gigs worth of playing. The type of strings I use sound dull after only one gig. I really need to remember to change strings before making vids/clips!

[samhill]

Sounds crazy amazing dude!!!!!! Great tones and playing!

Mark